I just spent $700 on OEM parts from CDan for both axles and a valve cover gasket replacement. That's all bearings and all seals. After I got it apart I determined that my axles were worn, so two new Longfields for $250. My Brifs weren't making noise, so I'm assuming that I can just switch them around. Birfs can be had for round $300 each I believe. I don't understand how they can know that you need axles without taking it apart- maybe someone here can enlighten me. If I were you, I would take that LC back to the dealer and get your car back if possible. Sell the car on CL, buy a different Cruiser, and pocket several thousand dollars. If the car's already gone, he should owe you several thousand back. $9K for that truck is a LOT, even for a dealer and especially when he knows that it needs a lot of work. I just bought a 96 with 207K for $4K from a dealer. They were going to wholesale it for that because of the front axle issue. Lastly, you CAN do that job by yourself or with some help. I am not a mechanic and I'm doing it by myself in my garage. Spend a few hundred on tools that you'll have forever and get it done completely and correctly.
Front end rebuild cost
- Thread starter k4azy
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That dealer price is huge, but considering the cost of all the parts they want to replace, it's not that bad for a dealer. I still wouldn't take it to them. It sounds like you have plenty of good knowledgeable people around you to help though
For reference, I just did this job and had to replace both birfs, drive flanges, spindles all the bearings, seals and right inner axle. It sucked to have to spend all of that cash, but it's done and won't need those parts ever again(?). The parts cost alone was ~$2300 from Dan.
Get the money from them and DIY. It's not a hard job. I just takes some time and a bunch of shop towels. You will def learn about your truck and save a boat load of cash, just be ready for things to get MESSY!
For reference, I just did this job and had to replace both birfs, drive flanges, spindles all the bearings, seals and right inner axle. It sucked to have to spend all of that cash, but it's done and won't need those parts ever again(?). The parts cost alone was ~$2300 from Dan.
Get the money from them and DIY. It's not a hard job. I just takes some time and a bunch of shop towels. You will def learn about your truck and save a boat load of cash, just be ready for things to get MESSY!
Not sure if it's different in your state but here when you buy a used car, it's as is where is. As soon as you pull off of the lot, the truck is yours. It could break down a mile down the road and you're stuck with it.
Dupe post
- Thread starter
- #26
The dealer called me back just a while ago. He's willing to have his mechanic replace the joints but was not at all receptive to the idea of giving me money back. My car is sold. I told him that's not acceptable and I don't trust his mechanic. We're at an impasse until tomorrow when I go in to meet with him.
As for legal recourse, it seems the only thing I have to fall back on is the Implied Warrant of Merchantability which basically is an unwritten promise that something that is sold will be suitable for sale and fit for the purpose for which it is sold. Otherwise, it was an "as is" sale.
As for whether I paid too much... obviously you guys who have more knowledge of these vehicles think I did. Considering that I have a busted truck, I'm forced to agree. However, I looked over the paperwork from the sale and it worked out to $8500 he wrote down for the value of my car and $8000 he wrote down for the truck. Looking at KBB (which is what I used to compare the values prior to the sale), he priced the truck at excellent condition (KBB says $9,246 for this truck with this trim and features at this mileage). I priced my car at excellent condition (which it was) and the truck came out better ($7,650 for my car with trim, features and mileage). I also did many, many craigslist searches to see what I could sell the car for privately and I didn't come across a single '05 Passat listed over 7K prior to the sale.
I guess my point is that up until the problem was discovered I felt like I had come out ahead. I told him I want $3K to cover the cost of the repairs. The problem now is that if he doesn't budge and insists on having his guy do the work or I can go have relations with myself then what? Eat it and pay to do it myself or take him up on a possibly temporary fix? After that all I can do is complain to the internets...
As for legal recourse, it seems the only thing I have to fall back on is the Implied Warrant of Merchantability which basically is an unwritten promise that something that is sold will be suitable for sale and fit for the purpose for which it is sold. Otherwise, it was an "as is" sale.
As for whether I paid too much... obviously you guys who have more knowledge of these vehicles think I did. Considering that I have a busted truck, I'm forced to agree. However, I looked over the paperwork from the sale and it worked out to $8500 he wrote down for the value of my car and $8000 he wrote down for the truck. Looking at KBB (which is what I used to compare the values prior to the sale), he priced the truck at excellent condition (KBB says $9,246 for this truck with this trim and features at this mileage). I priced my car at excellent condition (which it was) and the truck came out better ($7,650 for my car with trim, features and mileage). I also did many, many craigslist searches to see what I could sell the car for privately and I didn't come across a single '05 Passat listed over 7K prior to the sale.
I guess my point is that up until the problem was discovered I felt like I had come out ahead. I told him I want $3K to cover the cost of the repairs. The problem now is that if he doesn't budge and insists on having his guy do the work or I can go have relations with myself then what? Eat it and pay to do it myself or take him up on a possibly temporary fix? After that all I can do is complain to the internets...
Unless the mechanic is knowledgable with cruiser's i would pass on having him do the work. If you need to know why give me a shout off line. There are a few very simple things that need to be done right, but alot of general mechanics do not know about them. Just one thing i will mention here is the grease. Another is not properly locking the locking tabs, again basic stuff but missed alot that i have personally seen.
I know you just joined ONSC so i would go over there and see who is local that could either help you out or point you in the right direction. For a good mechanic it is a day job with most of the time being spent cleaning up stuff. For the beginner and maybe a good helper look at a weekend to do it right. But get the parts before hand cause your local auto place will not have it in stock.
I know you just joined ONSC so i would go over there and see who is local that could either help you out or point you in the right direction. For a good mechanic it is a day job with most of the time being spent cleaning up stuff. For the beginner and maybe a good helper look at a weekend to do it right. But get the parts before hand cause your local auto place will not have it in stock.
If he has already agreed to replace the birfield joints I would just ask him to give you the parts and you do the work yourself. No use worrying about what you paid for it now, Looks like a really clean truck. You may want to just try greasing the knuckles through the square fill plug in the top. Might help with your clicking until you can get around to doing the job.
Man, sorry to hear about this! Stinks to find a vehicle that looks so good on the outside but has real issues. As stated by others, redoing the front end is really a 
( out of ) job that can be done in one epic day or split over the course of two. If it were me, I would have been planning on doing the axle seals, wipers, wheel bearing, and trunnion bearings anyway with a serious thought of doing the brakes (rotors, calipers, hoses, pads and hardware) while I was there.
The truck does have 230,000 on it so an extensive baseline is in order. In the end, the birfs are the only thing I would not have been expecting to replace but even then it is not completely out of the realm of possibilites that they would need ot be changed.
Did you not get a chance to turn the truck during the test drive? Sorry if I missed that.
If you can get money out of the guy, good for you. Most cars I have looked at in Texas on lots have the typical standard form in the window saying no warranty is offered. Maybe there is some leeway and I hope you get some consideration.
In the end, I bought a 97 Collectors Edition for 9,600. It had 110,000 miles on it and the dealer (lexus) had done the valve seals for me. The history on the truck had it getting brakes, tranny flush, main seal, distributor or oil pump o-ring, and a new EGR and VSV in the last 30,000 miles. With that kind of service history I was willing to pay the money I did.
Since I got it I have done a front end job, put in new front pads (to start fresh), installed an air/oil seperator, and installed a scanguage II.
Because I am an idiot I just got done installing a new radiator, , waterpump, thermostat, hoses, PHH bypass, deleted the rear heat, refurbed the oil cooler, and am switching back to toyota red coolant. I consider all that a part of the baselining process and because I am an idiot.
So, it seems like you got a nice rig that has issue to be expected for a vehicle of this vintage. It would stink to feel like you got a good deal then realize you got more hassles than you thought - and paid for.
Good luck getting it taken care of. Don't let this sour your feelings about the cruiser either. She cannot help who owned her before you!
( out of ) job that can be done in one epic day or split over the course of two. If it were me, I would have been planning on doing the axle seals, wipers, wheel bearing, and trunnion bearings anyway with a serious thought of doing the brakes (rotors, calipers, hoses, pads and hardware) while I was there. The truck does have 230,000 on it so an extensive baseline is in order. In the end, the birfs are the only thing I would not have been expecting to replace but even then it is not completely out of the realm of possibilites that they would need ot be changed.
Did you not get a chance to turn the truck during the test drive? Sorry if I missed that.
If you can get money out of the guy, good for you. Most cars I have looked at in Texas on lots have the typical standard form in the window saying no warranty is offered. Maybe there is some leeway and I hope you get some consideration.
In the end, I bought a 97 Collectors Edition for 9,600. It had 110,000 miles on it and the dealer (lexus) had done the valve seals for me. The history on the truck had it getting brakes, tranny flush, main seal, distributor or oil pump o-ring, and a new EGR and VSV in the last 30,000 miles. With that kind of service history I was willing to pay the money I did.
Since I got it I have done a front end job, put in new front pads (to start fresh), installed an air/oil seperator, and installed a scanguage II.
Because I am an idiot I just got done installing a new radiator, , waterpump, thermostat, hoses, PHH bypass, deleted the rear heat, refurbed the oil cooler, and am switching back to toyota red coolant. I consider all that a part of the baselining process and because I am an idiot.
So, it seems like you got a nice rig that has issue to be expected for a vehicle of this vintage. It would stink to feel like you got a good deal then realize you got more hassles than you thought - and paid for.
Good luck getting it taken care of. Don't let this sour your feelings about the cruiser either. She cannot help who owned her before you!
I have been telling people for years to plan on putting another grand or 2 into a rig to get it right. Just a fact of life with a 4x4. Reason i say that much, is that the PO probably knew a bunch of stuff was going bad but it was good to get them up and down the road till they were going to get rid of it.
Sucks to hear you got more than you bargained for, but see if he will give you oem parts, and look into doing the repairs yourself or at another shop. A front end service is something everyone has to deal with at some point during ownership it seems. You are getting yours out of the way early.
- Thread starter
- #34
Thanks again everybody for the advice and support. I think asking for the parts (or the money for parts) is the way to go. Either that or let me choose the mechanic. We'll see what happens.
Texasyeti, bhmmapping, (others), you're absolutely right. I've got a really good looking truck and I'm already past having any regrets. A LC that needs some work is still more badass than no LC.
Krzyabncanuck, special thanks for the invaluable advice. I hope I'll get the opportunity to come down your way and give you some business. I'm definitely gonna get acquainted with some of the local ONSC guys and learn more about my truck through a little community involvement.
Texasyeti, bhmmapping, (others), you're absolutely right. I've got a really good looking truck and I'm already past having any regrets. A LC that needs some work is still more badass than no LC.
Krzyabncanuck, special thanks for the invaluable advice. I hope I'll get the opportunity to come down your way and give you some business. I'm definitely gonna get acquainted with some of the local ONSC guys and learn more about my truck through a little community involvement.
Thats the biggest thing. You need to learn this rig. Best way is to get in there and get greasy. Also find someone else in ONSC doing this job soon and watch / help.
In the end you will be happy with the purchase.
In the end you will be happy with the purchase.
You paid a lot for the truck, but I think you own it. Anything you get from the dealer is a bonus.
People buy these trucks all the time because someone said "they go on forever". Well, they do, but not without maintenance. We inspect these trucks on a weekly basis for new owners. $2k-$4k is nor uncommon to get them back in line. If you asked me about it before the purchase, I would have advised you that unless you are lucky, you are in for a complete front end rebuild with replacing a lot of hard parts. Easily $3k-$4k at dealer prices. That is just the start, then look at all the heater hoses, probably a lot if not all need replacing. Also, oil leaks, both front and rear of engine. If the front axle was not services, you can be sure the back was never serviced. Fortunately that is a lot cheaper.
As far as the dealer is concerned, the truck drives and is still fully operational. The fact that it clicks is probably worn birfields. It is not make the vehicle inoperable, it just shows parts are worn. For a 230k truck, that is pretty normal.
These days we always advise people that buying a 80 now is not cheap in terms of maintenance. There are very few of them out there that does not need a bunch. Soccer mum trucks are the worse. Only oil changes and needed repairs are done to them. If you are a DIY guy, these could be great buys. If you rely on a shop to maintain it and you want a perfect truck, be prepared to open your wallet. That is the reality of it, but the 80 is still an awesome truck, so doing all that work ($'s) to get a perfect truck should be compared to what else you can buy that is even in the same class.
Not everyone is a DIY guy and some people should really not work on their trucks. If you are the latter, find a reliable shop that you can trust that is going to stand behind their work. Spend the time to understand the truck's mechanical design and be confident that the repairs that you are going to pay for are needed, and well executed.
People buy these trucks all the time because someone said "they go on forever". Well, they do, but not without maintenance. We inspect these trucks on a weekly basis for new owners. $2k-$4k is nor uncommon to get them back in line. If you asked me about it before the purchase, I would have advised you that unless you are lucky, you are in for a complete front end rebuild with replacing a lot of hard parts. Easily $3k-$4k at dealer prices. That is just the start, then look at all the heater hoses, probably a lot if not all need replacing. Also, oil leaks, both front and rear of engine. If the front axle was not services, you can be sure the back was never serviced. Fortunately that is a lot cheaper.
As far as the dealer is concerned, the truck drives and is still fully operational. The fact that it clicks is probably worn birfields. It is not make the vehicle inoperable, it just shows parts are worn. For a 230k truck, that is pretty normal.
These days we always advise people that buying a 80 now is not cheap in terms of maintenance. There are very few of them out there that does not need a bunch. Soccer mum trucks are the worse. Only oil changes and needed repairs are done to them. If you are a DIY guy, these could be great buys. If you rely on a shop to maintain it and you want a perfect truck, be prepared to open your wallet. That is the reality of it, but the 80 is still an awesome truck, so doing all that work ($'s) to get a perfect truck should be compared to what else you can buy that is even in the same class.
Not everyone is a DIY guy and some people should really not work on their trucks. If you are the latter, find a reliable shop that you can trust that is going to stand behind their work. Spend the time to understand the truck's mechanical design and be confident that the repairs that you are going to pay for are needed, and well executed.
Let the dealer get the parts and do the work. don't make a bad situation any more complicated than it has to be. Then tear it apart and make sure it was done right if you want. You might be suprised - some mechanics actually do know what they are doing. You get the parts and the service that way. if you have to redo it then no problem. Good luck.
- Thread starter
- #39
Thanks Christo!
The more I read the build threads and learn about other peoples' experiences, the more confident I am that this would be a doable project even for a noob.
Of course, convincing myself is the easy part. Now I just need to convince my skeptical wife...
I suppose another question to the group is how urgently does this need to be dealt with? It may be 4 -6 weeks before I have an entire weekend to dedicate to a project. The last thing anyone needs is to be on the side of the road in muggy 100° weather... That may be the deciding factor in having the dealer do it and then, as spartan suggests, tearing it down and rebuilding.
The more I read the build threads and learn about other peoples' experiences, the more confident I am that this would be a doable project even for a noob.
Of course, convincing myself is the easy part. Now I just need to convince my skeptical wife...
I suppose another question to the group is how urgently does this need to be dealt with? It may be 4 -6 weeks before I have an entire weekend to dedicate to a project. The last thing anyone needs is to be on the side of the road in muggy 100° weather... That may be the deciding factor in having the dealer do it and then, as spartan suggests, tearing it down and rebuilding.
Just so you know - most likely all the mechanic did was put the truck on a rack, grab the tires and do a wiggle test at 12 and 6, then at 9 and 3 and felt some " slop " that indicates bad bearings, poorly adjusted bearings, or both. Looked at the birf housings on either side and saw lots of grease soup leaking out. Then he took out the front differential fill plug, stuck his finger in and came back out with diff fluid contaminated with grease. It took him maybe 20 minutes. This ain't rocket science here. It's just a truck.
It's your truck now. Get them to do what they will and be thankful for it. Invest some of the money you would pay a mechanic in tools and start with a bearing, seal, gaskets, oil seal only rebuild if you still feel you need it and go from there. If you take it apart and the birfs are shot - order some.
Check out Marlin Crawlers site for the different rebuild packages they have. You can get what you need from basic to complete and new birfields.
You said noob. This won't be a job for you to do yourself the first time. Find a mud guy around there and pay him gas and a cuople of hundred bucks to come and help you through it the first time. Plenty of threads on here and in the FAQ section for the tools and parts you will need. 54MM hub socket, c-clip pliers, simple scale for preload and brass drift(s) is what you won't have for the job that you need. A good torque wrench is required.
And ignore all the you need new cone washers, new studs, new brake lines stuff. You might, but I doubt it. Do pay attention and measure the rotors while you have it apart and replace if needed or consider paying the dealer for new rotors and pads to put on while they have it apart. You gotta take the whole spindle, hub assembly apart to replace the rotors on these trucks.
Go with it and relax. 80's are what they are. High maintenance bitches.
It's your truck now. Get them to do what they will and be thankful for it. Invest some of the money you would pay a mechanic in tools and start with a bearing, seal, gaskets, oil seal only rebuild if you still feel you need it and go from there. If you take it apart and the birfs are shot - order some.
Check out Marlin Crawlers site for the different rebuild packages they have. You can get what you need from basic to complete and new birfields.
You said noob. This won't be a job for you to do yourself the first time. Find a mud guy around there and pay him gas and a cuople of hundred bucks to come and help you through it the first time. Plenty of threads on here and in the FAQ section for the tools and parts you will need. 54MM hub socket, c-clip pliers, simple scale for preload and brass drift(s) is what you won't have for the job that you need. A good torque wrench is required.
And ignore all the you need new cone washers, new studs, new brake lines stuff. You might, but I doubt it. Do pay attention and measure the rotors while you have it apart and replace if needed or consider paying the dealer for new rotors and pads to put on while they have it apart. You gotta take the whole spindle, hub assembly apart to replace the rotors on these trucks.
Go with it and relax. 80's are what they are. High maintenance bitches.