255/85R16 Toyo M/T review

[ashooter]

I had several people ask about my "tall skinnies" in another thread, so I thought I'd start a new thread where I could add info as I wear the tires out. Also, anybody else with these new Toyos (in this size) on their rig should chime in, since a lot of guys here will probably use them harder than I do.

I average around 100 miles per week on rough gravel and rock roads, but don't do any "rock crawling" or very much "out through the brush" driving. Nothing spectacular, but it wears tires out pretty fast and a tire than isn't pretty tough goes flat quite often around here. I wanted the absolute toughest tire I could get that would still handle reasonably well on the highway. I considered a bunch of different tires in 235/85, 265/75, and 255/85 sizes, but after hearing from some of the guys working on seismograph crews and the local tire shop who is the ONLY one within 60 miles to fix flats, I chose Toyo M/T's in 255/85R16. Toyo M/T's are unquestionably the toughest thing anybody around here has tried.

Toyo has only been making these M/T's in this size for a few months, so my local tire shop couldn't get them. I ended up ordering from treadepot.com - five of them for $1173 shipped. Took about 5 business days to get here after I ordered them. I had them installed yesterday on 70 Series Land Cruiser steel wheels with NO weights. Just added 8 oz. per tire of "off-road" Dyna Beads from Innovative Balancing. Since I just had them put on the truck I obviously have no long-term impressions yet, but they are as smooth at 75 mph as my 265/75R16 Bridgestone Revos were. I don't know if the tires are that balanced right out of the box or if the Dyna Beads are just that good, but I'm pretty impressed so far.

First impressions:

1) They are surprisingly quiet! I know everybody says that, but they honestly don't sound any different at highway speeds than my Revos did... but then my FJ80 has a lot of wind noise. I do hear a low rumble when I drop down to about 30 mph and below.

2) Steering is very noticeably more responsive - scary almost, but I'm not sure if it's because the tires are firmer, more air pressure, skinnier or what. The tire shop put 65 lbs in the tires just before my highway test drive and I have 54 lbs in them now after doing the "chalk test" to get to the pressure where the tread is flat on the pavement. I was running 40 lbs in my "E" load range Revos. I may go down a little more with these Toyos, but I doubt I'll go all the way back down to 40 lbs for everyday driving.

3) Braking is a little less responsive, which I assume is due to the 4 lbs more tire weight than the Revos as well as the larger diameter. Also, when you come to a complete stop, you can kind of feel the treads on the pavement. I'm guessing this is normal for a mud terrain...? I've never had mud terrains before, so I don't know.

4) I'm probably one of the few people that thinks Toyo M/T's are ugly... but they are not nearly as ugly to me in person as they look in photos on the net!

Here are a few photos:

8-14-08 Just a small update: I dumped some more pressure so I ended up with 48 lbs cold in both the front and the rear. After driving over some chalky "caliche" and then looking at where the tread was white, I'm guessing this will be about right for my truck. Tires seem to stick to the pavement a lot better than they did at 65 lbs - I was probably rolling down the highway on the middle two rows of tread yesterday! We'll see what happens this afternoon at 70 mph for two hours with it 100 degrees out there. Plus this weekend I'll be doing about 150 miles out through the desert.

I'll post more as I form an opinion on these tires.

 

[450 DUDE]

How tall are they ( for us lame ratio impaireed types )

Thanks,
ken

 

[Nay]

54 PSI is insane, try 40. I'm surprised you can even stay on the road.

 

[ashooter]

How tall are they ( for us lame ratio impaireed types )

Thanks,
ken

33.5" tall and just a touch over 10" wide. Not sure how tall they actually are installed on the truck.

 

[ashooter]

54 PSI is insane, try 40. I'm surprised you can even stay on the road.

Really?

I did the chalk test to see at what point the chalk was wearing evenly and have gotten down to 48 psi cold, which seems about right.... at least as far as putting the tread flat on the ground.

The tires are load range "E" with max pressure of 80 psi. Do you still think 40 psi would be okay? I don't want to go too low and have the tires flexing so much they heat up and blow out. Weather is 100+ degrees for 3+ months out of the year here.

 

[Peluo]

For those who have them in 285/75 R16 what air pressure do you use? I use 34PSI is that to low? how do i go by doing the chalk test?
i will go and search for it.

 

[Nay]

Really?

I did the chalk test to see at what point the chalk was wearing evenly and have gotten down to 48 psi cold, which seems about right.... at least as far as putting the tread flat on the ground.

The tires are load range "E" with max pressure of 80 psi. Do you still think 40 psi would be okay? I don't want to go too low and have the tires flexing so much they heat up and blow out. Weather is 100+ degrees for 3+ months out of the year here.

If I did the chalk test I'd have to run my tires at 15 PSI. As it is, I run them at 31 PSI.

The Toyo MT is a very flat tread, it will run with full contact at very high PSI, which makes sense given it was designed for pickup trucks that may need a large variance in PSI depending on day to day usage. 40 PSI is still high for a large tire, I would find the range between stock PSI and maybe 45 PSI at the absolute highest where it drives the best.

I have to tell my tire shop to not balance my tires at 45 PSI, because every time they do it is absolutely undriveable, and then going back down to 30 PSI can tweak the balance and we get to do it over again.

The whole P-Metric vs. LT tire argument that says you need much higher PSI in the LT tire (as shown in the FAQ) is bunk to me, because it does not account for a sliding scale of load range at different PSI. If I have a 3,500 lb load max tire at max PSI of 65, what is the load max at 31 PSI? Is it proportionate to PSI in a 1:1 reduction, or on a curve? No answers there, but the bigger the tire the more air you have to achieve proper inflation at lower PSI's. One size does not fit all here - my rig is practically undriveable at FAQ authorized tire pressures.

So, I would stay much closer to stock on a big heavy duty tire than I would be in the upper PSI limits. An overly stiff tire can be dangerous, and if you are feeling much quicker steering on your MT's than on your Revo's I think your PSI is way off.

Plus, you can always fill them back up if you don't like it.

 

[bugsnbikes]

was that 5 tires for 1175 or 4??????

im curious about a comparison with the BFG MT 255s which seem to be alot less $$$

 

[Slim D]

[quote Toyo has only been making these M/T's in this size for a few months, so my local tire shop couldn't get them. I ended up ordering from treadepot.com - five of them for $1173 shipped. [/quote]


According to what he wrote, I believe it was for 5.

 

[ashooter]

Nay,

I dropped my pressure down to 45 psi, so I'll see what happens from there. Steering doesn't feel near as squirrely anymore. Feels very similar to the Revos I had on there before with 40 psi in them.

The thing that makes it confusing to me is that works for a certain amount of weight supported on a wide 33" tire with "C" load rating is not going to necessarily work with a skinny 33" tire with an "E" load rating - air volume vs. pressure and all that.

I ran into an inflation table pdf on Toyo's website that gives load ratings for LT255/85R16's all the way down to 35 psi... but I'm still not sure I would want to be zooming down the highway on a 103 degree day with pressure that low.



bugsnbikes,

That price was for FIVE tires... but yes, Toyos are going to cost more than the BFG KM's. The 255/85 KM2's are supposedly going to be pretty close to the Toyo M/T price. The price I paid was the best price I could find anywhere - I had a tire shop in Del Rio, TX quote me $350 each for a set of five of these mounted & balanced!

 

[crawlin40]

skinnies

They look great. I really like the steelies. I am looking at going 255/85 and no flares also. If you do not mind me asking, where did you get the steelies and what was the cost?

 

[Buckru]

I run my 315 75 16's at 38 psi and have had fantastic wear so far. I have about 24k miles on them, unfortunately most of that is pavement. I do however do 5 tire rotations every 7k.

Buck

 

[Nay]

Nay,

I dropped my pressure down to 45 psi, so I'll see what happens from there. Steering doesn't feel near as squirrely anymore. Feels very similar to the Revos I had on there before with 40 psi in them.

The thing that makes it confusing to me is that works for a certain amount of weight supported on a wide 33" tire with "C" load rating is not going to necessarily work with a skinny 33" tire with an "E" load rating - air volume vs. pressure and all that.

I ran into an inflation table pdf on Toyo's website that gives load ratings for LT255/85R16's all the way down to 35 psi... but I'm still not sure I would want to be zooming down the highway on a 103 degree day with pressure that low.

OK, I found the link, that's a great chart and the first time I've seen it. It supports what I have been saying on all of these tire inflation threads.

http://marktg.toyotires.com/file/loadinflationtable.pdf

Using the Michelin LTX as a basis for stock P275/70/16, it has a load rating of 2,365 at 35 PSI in a light truck/SUV application (Michelin has dowgraded the standard load rating of 2,480 to 2,365 because of the SUV application, and this is also noted on the Toyo website as an OEM practice of lowering load ratings based on light truck application of a P-Metric tire). Recommended pressure is 32 PSI for the 80, so the actual PSI is somewhat less, probably 2,100 or so.

Now the Toyo MT in a 315/75/16 has a load rating of 2535 at 35 PSI, so the LT tire in a significant oversize has a higher load rating than the P-Metric stock tire at the same PSI. This is contrary to what is in the FAQ . If you look at Toyo's safety recommendations, this analysis is exactly what they recommend to achieve proper tire inflation.

Now your tires are smaller than the 315's and I didn't see them in the chart, but looking at the other close size with 80 PSI max load I think 35 PSI would be about right compared to stock @ 2,270 max load @ 35 PSI (that's a 9,080 lb max vehicle load).

I should also point out that on the Michelin website they don't start showing extra speed related inflation figures on an S rated tire until you hit 100 mph. Hardly modified 80 series territory.

Now in my case with Trxus MT's that have the approximate Load Range E max ratings at max 65 PSI of the 35" Toyos, at 30 PSI I would be around 2,155 max load, and in my normal range of 30-32 I am right at the stock ratings and have added very little weight to my rig. I arrived at this PSI because that is where the rig drives the best. It is nice to see this confirmed by actual numbers , but is no surprise.

Lots of people on this forum running around on over-inflated LT tires because Cary scared them

 

[ashooter]

They look great. I really like the steelies. I am looking at going 255/85 and no flares also. If you do not mind me asking, where did you get the steelies and what was the cost?

I got them from cruiserdan for about $124 plus shipping. They had to have them shipped in from three different warehouses around the country, if I recall correctly, so they're not exactly common in the U.S. They do seem to be an almost perfect fit for this size tire, though.

 

[corsair23]

OK, I found the link, that's a great chart and the first time I've seen it. It supports what I have been saying on all of these tire inflation threads.

http://marktg.toyotires.com/file/loadinflationtable.pdf

Using the Michelin LTX as a basis for stock P275/70/16, it has a load rating of 2,365 at 35 PSI in a light truck/SUV application (Michelin has dowgraded the standard load rating of 2,480 to 2,365 because of the SUV application, and this is also noted on the Toyo website as an OEM practice of lowering load ratings based on light truck application of a P-Metric tire). Recommended pressure is 32 PSI for the 80, so the actual PSI is somewhat less, probably 2,100 or so.

Nay,

Thank you for the link to that bit of information. Unfortunately, I don't believe you read all of the information quite right . It seems to be a little more complicated per Toyo than just figuring out that the OEM P-metric tires carry X weight @ X psi and that LT tires carry X weight @ X psi so I'm golden. If that were the case then I should only be running ~35psi in my 285/75R16 MTs...Well, read below.

In looking at Example 4. which is found on pg 71 on the link you provided and inserting the 80 series data in there here is how it computes for me:​

P-Metric to LT-Metric​

Example 4. Replace the O.E. P275/70R16 114S SL with a LT285/75R16 126P on a 1997 LX450.​

Using the TRA Load Inflation Table (see Table 8), at the O.E. pressure of 32 psi, the P275/70R16 has a​

load-carrying capacity of 2480 lbs. As this tire has been derated by the vehicle manufacturer by a factor
of 1.10 (2480/1.10) to account for its installation on a light truck, the actual load-carrying capacity is 2255 lbs. (NOTE: I found when printing the .pdf out the column heading didn't line up well on the table)​

After confirming that the O.E. rim width is within the allowable rim width range for LT285/75R16 126P
E/10 (MY tire size), refer to the TRA LT Load Inflation Table. The ‘Single’ load values apply, and this tire requires an
inflation pressure of 38 psi (2256 lbs. | extrapolated by taking the 40 psi figure less the 35 psi figure, dividing by 5 to get the per psi lbs figure (42lbs) for this range of psi, then adding 1 psi worth until getting close to 2255) to maintain adequate load capacity.​

In summary, the 1997 Lexus LX450 with an Open Country M/T LT285/75R16 121P E/10 must be inflated to 38psi.​

Now I typically put in 40psi so it looks like I can go down a touch although with my additional weight due to mods 40 seems good ​

In looking at the OP scenario according to the chart and extrapolating, per the chart he shouls be running....yep, 45psi ​

I'm also sure you saw this warning at the bottom of page 71:​

WARNING! Please note that size for size, LT-metric tires require higher air pressures to carry equivalent loads of P-Metric tires and that any failure to adjust air pressure to achieve the vehicle’s load requirements will result in tire fatigue and eventual tire failure due to excessive heat buildup. Due to the higher PSI requirements of LT-Metric tires they may not be suitable for replacing O.E. P-Metric tires because of the ride harshness that results from higher PSI.

Now maybe I'm all messed up but this seems pretty cut and dry to me.​

 

[Romer]

I run my Toyoy 315's at 42-45 psi with no issues, Drives real smooth and quite and straight. Maybe you got a bad set or a tweaked truck Nay.

I would not run this tire at 30psi on the highway. But you can do what you want with your own tires when you find that sweet spot that works for you

 

[ashooter]

OK, I found the link...

http://marktg.toyotires.com/file/loadinflationtable.pdf

...Now the Toyo MT in a 315/75/16 has a load rating of 2535 at 35 PSI, so the LT tire in a significant oversize has a higher load rating than the P-Metric stock tire at the same PSI...

Is that because the tire is bigger (more air volume) or because the tire has stronger/stiffer construction? If the sidewalls don't flex as much at a given pressure, that may mean they can carry more weight at lower psi, though it has nothing to do with the size of the tire...?

Now your tires are smaller than the 315's and I didn't see them in the chart, but looking at the other close size with 80 PSI max load I think 35 PSI would be about right compared to stock @ 2,270 max load @ 35 PSI (that's a 9,080 lb max vehicle load).

It's down on Page "A9" in a table titled "TRA Light Truck Inflation Table". At 40 psi it shows a load rating of 2110 lbs and at 45 psi 2290 lbs.

I haven't read the FAQ in a while and I don't know what Cary wrote to scare people, but I would really think that the bottom line is tire size doesn't have diddly to do with what pressure you should run. Tire construction would have everything to do with it. To make two extreme examples - a soft "P" tire vs. a hard-core steel cased Michelin XZL. The XZL will carry a LOT more weight at a given pressure, primarily because of the tire's construction. BUT, it may fly apart at 75 mph because it's not designed as a highway tire, but as a heavy-duty offroad tire.

There are just so many variables to consider that I can't believe in a one-size-fits-all inflation table. And I don't think there are concrete extrapolations that can be made with regard to tires from one manufacturer to tires from another manufacturer or from "P" tires to "LT" tires based on size.

I WILL, however, believe in an inflation table from the mfgr of the tire I'm driving that lists the same size and load range as the tire I'm driving.... Hence, you are probably right that 40-45 psi would be about right for these tires.

 

[Nay]

Now maybe I'm all messed up but this seems pretty cut and dry to me.

Well, one of us is messed up . I thought it was pretty simple. They have a chart that shows load bearing for the Toyo AT and MT specifically, at different load ranges. At 35 PSI, x Toyo MT has a load bearing of y. No calculation or assumptions required.

I didn't see a TRA LT chart, I only saw the TRA P Metric chart, maybe I missed something.

But between the two charts, if Toyo says at x PSI your tire has y load bearing, and y load bearing is >= to the P-metric load bearing of the stock tire, then I am confused as to how you could possibly be running at PSI's and therefore load bearing that are too low for the application?

If I'm running a 315/75/16 Toyo MT at 35 PSI then I have over 10K total load bearing in my tires on a 6K truck. This is greater than the stock P-metric load bearing by ~1K. There's no P-Metric conversion required, it's straight off the charts. The only thing I needed to know was the load bearing of my original tires.

Now your 285's aren't on that Toyo MT chart, so maybe they do require more PSI - the 285 and 315 are very different tires - it's the load rating of the 315 that makes up for that disclaimer in red. On an 80, you could run those 40's at 25 PSI and still have way more load bearing that required for the application.

 

[cruiserdan]

Interesting stuff.

I'll further the hijack and say that I have run my 305/70/16 and my wife's 315/75/16 Mud Rovers at 32 psi and they seem to like it.

 

[corsair23]

Well, one of us is messed up . I thought it was pretty simple. They have a chart that shows load bearing for the Toyo AT and MT specifically, at different load ranges. At 35 PSI, x Toyo MT has a load bearing of y. No calculation or assumptions required.

I didn't see a TRA LT chart, I only saw the TRA P Metric chart, maybe I missed something.

There are two charts. The P-metric TRA inflation table begins on page A3 (pg 74) and the LT TRA inflation table begins on page A9 (pg 80).

But between the two charts, if Toyo says at x PSI your tire has y load bearing, and y load bearing is >= to the P-metric load bearing of the stock tire, then I am confused as to how you could possibly be running at PSI's and therefore load bearing that are too low for the application?

If I'm running a 315/75/16 Toyo MT at 35 PSI then I have over 10K total load bearing in my tires on a 6K truck. This is greater than the stock P-metric load bearing by ~1K. There's no P-Metric conversion required, it's straight off the charts. The only thing I needed to know was the load bearing of my original tires.

Obviously Toyo feels a conversion needs to be done . A majority of the link you provided goes into great detail abot what an owner of Toyo tires should do and take into consideration when changing from one type of tire to another type. Example 4 on page 71 describes exactly what the owner of an 80 series should do if they change from OEM P-metric tires to LT tires. I won't claim to fully understand all of the science behind it but I have Toyo tires, Toyo put this out, and I'll follow what they suggest. My tire wear after nearly 2 years and 1000s of miles is excellent and even so I think I'll still with what I've been doing. If you read through the entire .pdf file you'll see that it obviously has to do with the different standards organizations such as the TRA, ETRTO, and JATMA and apparently you need the conversion so you can compare loading on an apple to apple basis.

Now your 285's aren't on that Toyo MT chart, so maybe they do require more PSI - the 285 and 315 are very different tires - it's the load rating of the 315 that makes up for that disclaimer in red. On an 80, you could run those 40's at 25 PSI and still have way more load bearing that required for the application.

No, my 285 MTs are not on the Toyo MT chart, but they are on the TRA LT inflation table. It seems that this is another "4.88s vs. stock gearing" argument for you ;p. I wouldn't be surprised if you start putting 50psi in your tires sometime soon?

Someday when I find the time I'll send Toyo a message and just ask them direct what psi I should be running and see what they say...