outter c clip on birf inside hub

[CruisinFJ60]

so im sitting here thinking and for some reason im either having a brain fart or just plain dont know...

what is the purpose of the outter most c clip on the birfield inside of the hub?

all i can see is it keeps it from sliding out of the hub gear, but that doesnt seem to make sense as if you push it it will stop before it slides out of the hub gear (when no clip is installed). what is it that i am missing here? do i need the clip?

i only ask as i was trying to picture in my mind of an easier / faster way of a birf replacement. i was thinking if you pulled the wiper seals and steering arm bolts you could pull the whole knuckle and spindle assy off by sliding it right off of the birf. but the c clip would have to come off first, not hard to do but if on the trail could be a real pain in the ass not to mention trying to gt it on most likely without snap ring pliers...

 

[RockDoc]

You are mar-tacked, right? I think that changes the equation, I've had to pull the axle/birf out to get the clip on both axle jobs I've done.

 

[CruisinFJ60]

yea im mar tacked but that just keeps the inner shaft from going into the differential. the large clip on the inner axle keeps the birf from moving to far inward on the inner axle, so what is the outter clip on the birf for?

maybe im trying to over think this and complicate it... i dunno...

 

[RockDoc]

C-clip on the end of the inner axle would keep the inner axle from sliding it relative to the birf, clip on the birf keeps the inner/birf combo from sliding in relative to the hub. I would think mar-tacking negates the need for both of them, but mine's not mar-tacked.

 

[CruisinFJ60]

ok after thinking about that and typing why i didnt think it would work i think i get it now so i deleted what i wrote and now have this...

normally the only think keeping inner from going into the diff is the clip on the end of the axle inside of the birf, but the only thing holding the birf from sliding inward was the clip on the birf. now that the mar tack is done all inward motion is stopped from the inside vs what was the outer clip before...

looks like i no longer need the clip on the birfield, only the large clip on the axle that never has to be messed with.

i think i was just over thinking it.
thanks man,
makes me happy to know that 8 small 10mm bolts on the wiper, 8 17mm bolts on the steering arms and either undoing the line for the brake caliper or removing the caliper and i can pull the entire hub and rotor off as a whole and not have to touch the bearings, hubs, or any other seals to get to the birf.


1.) the red arrow shows the clip im talking about
2.) the red line shows the clip that is no longer needed with the mar tack done
3.) the blue line is the large clip that keeps inner from going to far into birf

 

[Mace]

You need the red clip at the arrow to prevent the birf from potentially hitting the inside fo the knuckle and binding.

I ran my 79 for years without one. But it would suck to bind everything up and have it go kablue..

 

[handcannon]

I just pulled hubs off a for runner at a pick-n-pull. It had drive plates (lock out hubs would be the same) and once the plates were off there was a bolt and heavy washer in the end of the axle shaft instead of the clip you are talking about. The end of the stock axle shaft in my "71" FJ40 has that same threaded hole in it in addition to the clip. I am assuming that all the shafts will have the same threaded hole. Couldn't you get the same bolt and washer and use instead of the clip? Trail repairs would still require that the Aisen lock out cap be removed to access the bolt and washer, but it would be easier to deal with than the clip. Once removed the hub could be removed without touching the wheel bearings. At this point this is all conjecture since I don't have direct experience doing such, or have the parts directly in front of me, but I think it would be worth looking into.

Don

 

[cruiser_guy]

Don, all the axle shafts have a threaded hole so you can give the axle shaft a tug (after threading a bolt in there) and get the clip on.

 

[CruisinFJ60]

You need the red clip at the arrow to prevent the birf from potentially hitting the inside fo the knuckle and binding.

I ran my 79 for years without one. But it would suck to bind everything up and have it go kablue..

how is that one keeping it from kitting the knuckle?

in the pic above the clip at the blue line keeps the birf from moving to far and hitting anything and then the mar tack keeps inner from going to far those combined keep birf in place.

 

[Mace]

how is that one keeping it from kitting the knuckle?

in the pic above the clip at the blue line keeps the birf from moving to far and hitting anything and then the mar tack keeps inner from going to far those combined keep birf in place.

As long as you are sure the martack is in the right place to prevent the bell from hitting the knuckle then it is not an issue.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

I agree with Mace. As long as you have the depth set perfectly then you have nothing to worry about. Can you test the depth by assembling everything and checking how far the outer splines on the birfield stick out of the hub gear? If the mar-tack is in the right spot, then the amount of splines showing should be just about equal with the clip groove, right? If that's the case then you wouldn't need either clip.

 

[CruisinFJ60]

As long as you are sure the martack is in the right place to prevent the bell from hitting the knuckle then it is not an issue.

oh we are good then im 100% sure of the mar tack location.

I agree with Mace. As long as you have the depth set perfectly then you have nothing to worry about. Can you test the depth by assembling everything and checking how far the outer splines on the birfield stick out of the hub gear? If the mar-tack is in the right spot, then the amount of splines showing should be just about equal with the clip groove, right? If that's the case then you wouldn't need either clip.

thats actually what got me thinking about the clip in the first place. when i put it back together i originally put the clip on and noticed it was really easy since the birf wasnt moving on me, and the distance was just a hair past the groove for the clip to the outside, i even tried to push i in and could not (mar tack stopping it).

 

[BlueCruiser84]

I have never taken apart the inner axle from the birfield, so I was reading my FSM and it says to just drive it off with a drift. What I got from that is that normally you would just hammer the birfield off of the inner shaft, ruin the inner snap ring (red line in drawing) and then replace it when you put everything back together. With a martack, though, you eliminate that snap ring completely and only have the blue line snap ring (which you don't mess with anyways) and you may or may not have the red arrow snap ring depending on how brave you are. Is this correct?

 

[CruisinFJ60]

I have never taken apart the inner axle from the birfield, so I was reading my FSM and it says to just drive it off with a drift. What I got from that is that normally you would just hammer the birfield off of the inner shaft, ruin the inner snap ring (red line in drawing) and then replace it when you put everything back together. With a martack, though, you eliminate that snap ring completely and only have the blue line snap ring (which you don't mess with anyways) and you may or may not have the red arrow snap ring depending on how brave you are. Is this correct?

exactly!

not to mention it can be a pain to put the inner axle back into the birf without damaging that stupid little clip. and if you are on the trail and you dont have something to beat the birf with (i used a vice and a 3lb sledge and gave it a few hard blows to separate the axle and birf) it can make changing a birf much harder.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

Makes complete sense now. I was thinking that without the inner birf clip that it would allow the birf to slip out far enough to damage the hub gears, but there is nothing keeping the inner axle out of the diff so it would happen stock anyway. :duh:

Thanks for documenting this so well!

 

[CruisinFJ60]

Makes complete sense now. I was thinking that without the inner birf clip that it would allow the birf to slip out far enough to damage the hub gears, but there is nothing keeping the inner axle into the diff so it would happen stock anyway. :duh:

Thanks for documenting this so well!

no problem.

 

[BlueCruiser84]

exactly!

not to mention it can be a pain to put the inner axle back into the birf without damaging that stupid little clip. and if you are on the trail and you dont have something to beat the birf with (i used a vice and a 3lb sledge and gave it a few hard blows to separate the axle and birf) it can make changing a birf much harder.

Huh, looks like a martack just got put on the schedule before I put everything back together. Thanks.