I am setting up the knuckle bearing and preload with the centering tool. the y call for 5 ft lbs on the pull scale. i am about 2 lbs and it sure seems like i have the bearings really tightened down..can anyone confirm that there should be a good deal of tightening on the tool nut??
need real time help-in the garage now
- Thread starter Midwestcruiser
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Are you using shims to increase the preload? I did not think you needed to overtighten the adjustment tool.
Are the bolts on top of your knuckles / steering arms tight?
Give us a picture of what you are doing
Rocky
Are the bolts on top of your knuckles / steering arms tight?
Give us a picture of what you are doing
Rocky
- Thread starter
- #3
Just like coolerman had set up
When I did mine, I measured the preload off the steering arm with the knuckle and felts for the wipers insttalled. The shims (on the top and bottom of the knuckles) are what compress the bearings to get the preload right. That tool allows you to ensure the knuckle is centered correctly in the houseing.
Send me your email address, and I have a writeup on installing Mini-Truck knuckles and adjusting the preload I will send you. I tried to paste it in here, but IH8MUD didn't like it.
Good Luck
Send me your email address, and I have a writeup on installing Mini-Truck knuckles and adjusting the preload I will send you. I tried to paste it in here, but IH8MUD didn't like it.
Good Luck
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maybe it is 2 kilos
Reading over the literature, it looks like you use that tool to get the shims set to center the housing, then do the final preload measurement afterward, with the knuckle on....
Sorry - my memory is playing tricks on me. I'll send you the info if you need it.
Rocky
Sorry - my memory is playing tricks on me. I'll send you the info if you need it.
Rocky
John McVicker
SILVER Star
I've never used a 'centering tool', but I would think you should have the shims installed while using it.
Otherwise when you remove it & go to put the arms on, how do you know how many shims to use. But like I say, I've never used one...just thinking.
John
You dont use shims when using the SST.. The SST is used to determine the top and bottom shim stack thickness with some dial caliper measurement and some simple maths..
John McVicker
SILVER Star
From an article on a LC -> Mini-Truck Knuckle Install (W/O Using Centering Tool)....
Now you are ready for reassembly....
...Assemble the axles...
1. Install new snap rings on the ends of the inner Land Cruiser axles.
2. Grease and reassemble the Mini-Truck birfields. If you forgot how the cage and race are are positioned, refer to the unassembled Land Cruiser birfields.
3. Slide the Mini-Truck outer axle and birfield onto the Land Cruiser inner axle while compressing the snap ring. A vice will come in handy here, just don't clamp any splines or seal surfaces in the vice jaws. When axle seats together, you should hear a snap.
4. Now test to make sure you can't pull the outer half back off.
...Assemble the Steering Knuckle...
I highly recommend that a complete knuckle service kit be purchased before the assembly. Purchase a kit with knuckle bearings. These kits generally run from $90 to $125 and will include all the seals and gaskets necessary as well as new knuckle bearings in order to do the job right. They also include shims so that if the preload is incorrect it can be properly adjusted. Setting the bearing pre-load is very important for proper bearing life and safety. Don't skimp on this process. Do it right!
NOTE: The mini-truck knuckle does not use the tapered split or "cone" washers on the bottom retainer. For this reason it is easier to remove the lower retainer to make adjustments for pre-load if the upper arm and cone washers are installed and torqued. However, any shims added or removed should be done equally to both top and bottom unless you purchase a knuckle service tool for about $150 to $200 and follow the Toyota Factory Manual for the procedures. I have not found this tool to be necesary. Maybe I've just been lucky. If I know that the lower retainer still contains the spacers installed from the factory, I then just make shim adjustments under the steering arm. I am making an assumption that the lower shim was factory set and this should then locate the knuckle correctly on the axle housing and shimming the upper side is only setting/adjusting the preload for the bearings. This is probably not the 100% true but again, it seems to have worked for me.
1. Install the knuckle seal set on the axle housing by sliding them over the saddle. First the felt, then the rubber and last the split metal ring. Be carefull not to bend the metal ring any more then necessary. If it remains bent once its in place on the housing, take care and reshape it back to a flat ring.
2. Grease the knuckle bearings and races. Also apply a 1/8" layer of grease to the outside of the knuckle saddle. position the upper bearing into its race in the housing. With the lower bearing greased and installed in the knuckle housing and a layer or grease also applied to the inside of the housing line up the lower bearing into its race by tilting the upper knuckle housing outward, putting the lower bearing into the lower race and then tilting the housing straight up into position over the upper bearing.
3. Install the steering arm, cone washers, lock washers, and nuts.
(NOTE: A recent "trick" I used was to not install the cone washers and instead select proper sized flat washers to allow the arm to be torqued to the proper loading but then easily removed for shim and pre-load adjutments. Once the proper shims are determined for the correct pre-load, install the cone washers and Torque for final assembly.) Torque nuts to 65ft lbs. Test the knuckle bearing preload for 4 to 5 lbs with a pull scale attached to the tierod tapered hole. (NOTE: It is recommended by many folks that if you are running a High Steer setup or larger tires 35"+ that you increase the knuckle bearing preload. I now run mine at 10 pounds with a pull scale. Make sure you are checking the pre-load before installing the felt, rubber wiper, and retainer onto the knuckle.) If the preload is incorrect then remove the upper arm or lower retainer and add or remove shims to decrease or increase the preload. The knuckle should also rotate or "steer" smoothly from side to side.
4. Install the knuckle seals, seal retainers, and retainer bolts.
5. After both the left and right knuckles are installed install the Mini-Truck tie rod and tie rod ends. The end with the extra hole will need to go on the passenger side of the Cruiser. You will attach the Land Cruiser draglink to this hole. (We found that the advance adapter special draglink needed to be shortened a few inches. The 69 Cruiser has a Saginaw power steering conversion using the Advance Adapter draglink.)
6. Apply a small amount of grease to the axle seals, pack the birfields with grease by pressing it into the balls and race. Coat the birfields with grease and slide the axles into place. Remember the flats. You may have to turn the pinion flange a little to line up the differential side gears with the axle splines since you cannot turn the birfield until it get seated into the differential side gear.
7. Pack the entire knuckle with grease. Use a gasket or silicon sealer between the sealing surface of the knuckle and spindle. then also use a gasket or silicon sealer between the spindle and the brake rotor rock shield. Now install the spindle, rotor rock shield, and pindle/hub dust seal. I recommend using LockTight on the bolt threads. Torque to 30ft lbs.
...Assemble the Wheel Bearings and Hubs...
1. Pack the wheel bearings with grease, apply a generous layer of grease to the inside of the wheel hub, install the inner bearing (larger one)into the wheel hub, and then install the wheel bearing seal.
2. Apply a layer of grease to the spindle, put the hub/rotor assembly onto the spindle, install the outer bearing, bearing washer, and inner nut. Now set the wheel bearing pre-load. There are several ways to do this. Different manuals provide different methods. Refer to your manual. Remember that these are now Mini-Truck bearings so you should be referring to a Mini-truck manual or a Land Cruiser manual that covers disc brake axles. The method I use is as follows:
3. Torque the inner nut to 40 - 45 ft/lbs
4. Rotate the hub a couple of turns in both directions.
5. Re-torque inner nut to 40-45 ft/lbs in order to ensure the bearings and cups are fully seated.
6. Now loosen the nut so it can be turned by your fingers and then and re- torque from 10-17 ft/lbs.
7. Use a pull scale on one of the wheel lugs and determine the force required to start the hub/rotor turning. It should be from 6 to 12.5 pounds of force. This is bearing pre-load plus the wheel bearing seal resistance plus the spindle/hub dust seal resistance. (To determine the exact bearing pre-load you will have to loosen the adjusting nut to be finger tight, then check pounds of force required to start hub/rotor to rotate. Record this measurement. Now do through the procedure above to set the pre-load but subtract the seal resistance from the measurement taken. The bearing only pre-load should be between 4 and 8 pounds on a pull scale.)
8. Install the lock washer and lock nut torquing to 55 ft/lbs. Verify the pre-load again with a pull scale attached to a wheel lug. It should not have changed much from teh previous measurment. Re-adjust as necessary to get the proper pre-load. When you are happy with the setting, bend one tab on the lockwasher in each direction to secure the nuts.
9. Install the free-wheel hub body.
10. install the snap ring on the end of the axle. A bolt can be threaded onto the axle so that you can pull the axle out a little to expose the snap ring grove.
11. Install the outer free-wheel hub cap using a new gasket or sealer. Torque bolts to 10ft/lbs.
12. Install the calipers and new flexible brake hoses.
...The Finishing Touches...
1. Finish connecting brake lines and install the new master cylinder and booster if you are using one.
2. Bleed the brakes.
3. Mount and tighten the tires.
4. Adjust and tighten the tie rod for proper toe-in. I adjust mine so that there is about 1/4" of toe-in measured at the tires. See "Adjusting toe-in".
5. Lower the Cruiser off the jack stands and then...
...TEST DRIVE!!!
Now you are ready for reassembly....
...Assemble the axles...
1. Install new snap rings on the ends of the inner Land Cruiser axles.
2. Grease and reassemble the Mini-Truck birfields. If you forgot how the cage and race are are positioned, refer to the unassembled Land Cruiser birfields.
3. Slide the Mini-Truck outer axle and birfield onto the Land Cruiser inner axle while compressing the snap ring. A vice will come in handy here, just don't clamp any splines or seal surfaces in the vice jaws. When axle seats together, you should hear a snap.
4. Now test to make sure you can't pull the outer half back off.
...Assemble the Steering Knuckle...
I highly recommend that a complete knuckle service kit be purchased before the assembly. Purchase a kit with knuckle bearings. These kits generally run from $90 to $125 and will include all the seals and gaskets necessary as well as new knuckle bearings in order to do the job right. They also include shims so that if the preload is incorrect it can be properly adjusted. Setting the bearing pre-load is very important for proper bearing life and safety. Don't skimp on this process. Do it right!
NOTE: The mini-truck knuckle does not use the tapered split or "cone" washers on the bottom retainer. For this reason it is easier to remove the lower retainer to make adjustments for pre-load if the upper arm and cone washers are installed and torqued. However, any shims added or removed should be done equally to both top and bottom unless you purchase a knuckle service tool for about $150 to $200 and follow the Toyota Factory Manual for the procedures. I have not found this tool to be necesary. Maybe I've just been lucky. If I know that the lower retainer still contains the spacers installed from the factory, I then just make shim adjustments under the steering arm. I am making an assumption that the lower shim was factory set and this should then locate the knuckle correctly on the axle housing and shimming the upper side is only setting/adjusting the preload for the bearings. This is probably not the 100% true but again, it seems to have worked for me.
1. Install the knuckle seal set on the axle housing by sliding them over the saddle. First the felt, then the rubber and last the split metal ring. Be carefull not to bend the metal ring any more then necessary. If it remains bent once its in place on the housing, take care and reshape it back to a flat ring.
2. Grease the knuckle bearings and races. Also apply a 1/8" layer of grease to the outside of the knuckle saddle. position the upper bearing into its race in the housing. With the lower bearing greased and installed in the knuckle housing and a layer or grease also applied to the inside of the housing line up the lower bearing into its race by tilting the upper knuckle housing outward, putting the lower bearing into the lower race and then tilting the housing straight up into position over the upper bearing.
3. Install the steering arm, cone washers, lock washers, and nuts.
(NOTE: A recent "trick" I used was to not install the cone washers and instead select proper sized flat washers to allow the arm to be torqued to the proper loading but then easily removed for shim and pre-load adjutments. Once the proper shims are determined for the correct pre-load, install the cone washers and Torque for final assembly.) Torque nuts to 65ft lbs. Test the knuckle bearing preload for 4 to 5 lbs with a pull scale attached to the tierod tapered hole. (NOTE: It is recommended by many folks that if you are running a High Steer setup or larger tires 35"+ that you increase the knuckle bearing preload. I now run mine at 10 pounds with a pull scale. Make sure you are checking the pre-load before installing the felt, rubber wiper, and retainer onto the knuckle.) If the preload is incorrect then remove the upper arm or lower retainer and add or remove shims to decrease or increase the preload. The knuckle should also rotate or "steer" smoothly from side to side.
4. Install the knuckle seals, seal retainers, and retainer bolts.
5. After both the left and right knuckles are installed install the Mini-Truck tie rod and tie rod ends. The end with the extra hole will need to go on the passenger side of the Cruiser. You will attach the Land Cruiser draglink to this hole. (We found that the advance adapter special draglink needed to be shortened a few inches. The 69 Cruiser has a Saginaw power steering conversion using the Advance Adapter draglink.)
6. Apply a small amount of grease to the axle seals, pack the birfields with grease by pressing it into the balls and race. Coat the birfields with grease and slide the axles into place. Remember the flats. You may have to turn the pinion flange a little to line up the differential side gears with the axle splines since you cannot turn the birfield until it get seated into the differential side gear.
7. Pack the entire knuckle with grease. Use a gasket or silicon sealer between the sealing surface of the knuckle and spindle. then also use a gasket or silicon sealer between the spindle and the brake rotor rock shield. Now install the spindle, rotor rock shield, and pindle/hub dust seal. I recommend using LockTight on the bolt threads. Torque to 30ft lbs.
...Assemble the Wheel Bearings and Hubs...
1. Pack the wheel bearings with grease, apply a generous layer of grease to the inside of the wheel hub, install the inner bearing (larger one)into the wheel hub, and then install the wheel bearing seal.
2. Apply a layer of grease to the spindle, put the hub/rotor assembly onto the spindle, install the outer bearing, bearing washer, and inner nut. Now set the wheel bearing pre-load. There are several ways to do this. Different manuals provide different methods. Refer to your manual. Remember that these are now Mini-Truck bearings so you should be referring to a Mini-truck manual or a Land Cruiser manual that covers disc brake axles. The method I use is as follows:
3. Torque the inner nut to 40 - 45 ft/lbs
4. Rotate the hub a couple of turns in both directions.
5. Re-torque inner nut to 40-45 ft/lbs in order to ensure the bearings and cups are fully seated.
6. Now loosen the nut so it can be turned by your fingers and then and re- torque from 10-17 ft/lbs.
7. Use a pull scale on one of the wheel lugs and determine the force required to start the hub/rotor turning. It should be from 6 to 12.5 pounds of force. This is bearing pre-load plus the wheel bearing seal resistance plus the spindle/hub dust seal resistance. (To determine the exact bearing pre-load you will have to loosen the adjusting nut to be finger tight, then check pounds of force required to start hub/rotor to rotate. Record this measurement. Now do through the procedure above to set the pre-load but subtract the seal resistance from the measurement taken. The bearing only pre-load should be between 4 and 8 pounds on a pull scale.)
8. Install the lock washer and lock nut torquing to 55 ft/lbs. Verify the pre-load again with a pull scale attached to a wheel lug. It should not have changed much from teh previous measurment. Re-adjust as necessary to get the proper pre-load. When you are happy with the setting, bend one tab on the lockwasher in each direction to secure the nuts.
9. Install the free-wheel hub body.
10. install the snap ring on the end of the axle. A bolt can be threaded onto the axle so that you can pull the axle out a little to expose the snap ring grove.
11. Install the outer free-wheel hub cap using a new gasket or sealer. Torque bolts to 10ft/lbs.
12. Install the calipers and new flexible brake hoses.
...The Finishing Touches...
1. Finish connecting brake lines and install the new master cylinder and booster if you are using one.
2. Bleed the brakes.
3. Mount and tighten the tires.
4. Adjust and tighten the tie rod for proper toe-in. I adjust mine so that there is about 1/4" of toe-in measured at the tires. See "Adjusting toe-in".
5. Lower the Cruiser off the jack stands and then...
...TEST DRIVE!!!
You probably have already read the attached but these are the threads I read before using the tool.
IH8MUD.com - View Single Post - knuckle swap and shims FSM
https://forum.ih8mud.com/40-55-seri...-knuckle-centering-tool-instructions-faq.html
IH8MUD.com - View Single Post - knuckle swap and shims FSM
https://forum.ih8mud.com/40-55-seri...-knuckle-centering-tool-instructions-faq.html
