My new 2005 LC frame problem (1 Viewer)

[a990dna]

I've had several ongoing problems with my new Land Cruiser I bought in October '05.. I revealed all the issues .. most were resolved. The last go around, I took it in for a knock in the front suspension. The dealer worked with Toyota and determined it was a defective frame rail on the driver side... they did some weird fix, clamped or tweaked the frame "multi layer materials"---the knock was gone for 600 miles, but since has reappeared.

They only thing I can see they did was use black spray paint on the frame rail and leaving me with a ripple on the hood...

Now I’m frustrated to the point of getting rid if this vehicle .. don’t get me wrong I really like my LC .. it fits all my needs, I can’t think of another vehicle I would want right now, with exception to a LX470.

I really don’t have time to deal with these issues… I have a demanding job and several irons in the fire. I thought about trading this thing in, but now with the frame rail knock there's no way I'll be able to get rid of this vehicle without taking a bath---and that's only *IF* I can unload it with this problem.

I've already sent a letter to the president of Longo Toyota asking for help on this… he called me, we played phone tag for several days… I ultimately talked to the service manager. The SM rationalized the problem saying this happened with some T100s, but there's no TSB in place or known cases with Land Cruiser's---according to Toyota engineers.

My next course of action is to send a letter to Toyota and demand a buy-back or trade for a new 2007.

Any insight on dealing with Toyota on this issue or pursing a buy back would be greatly appreciated.

 

[calamaridog]

Lemon Law:

http://ag.ca.gov/consumers/general/lemon.htm

All mfg. build lemons. Some build more than others.

 

[a990dna]

Here's an update...

I sent my letter to CDSP and they sent back a letter and said I have a case...
Arbitration hearing is set for November 8th.

Wish me luck...

 

[Biff]

good luck, don't take any crap from them.

 

[e9999]

know somebody who had to do that once... (Vette... )

there are some catches. Sometimes, the arbitration is binding on the consumer but not the manufacturer, for example.

In that case, the arbitrator ruled in the consumer favor, but to arrive at the figure, he took off from new cost an amount that was based on a per mile value. Not sure how that was arrived at, but it was a good chunk and probably too high. So you might want to be prepared with a substantiated per mile value for your ownership period (as low as possible).

good luck!


oh, and keep / let us know all the VIN info, description, and all, so folks here know not to buy it!

 

[CrusrDug]

For the money we pay for these rigs "new" you expect it to be held to a higher standard. I have a tick in the steering wheel that is driving me nuts and they say they can't hear it. I hear it every day.

Good Luck!

 

[flyfish4life]

For the money we pay for these rigs "new" you expect it to be held to a higher standard. I have a tick in the steering wheel that is driving me nuts and they say they can't hear it. I hear it every day.

Good Luck!

My '06 (with 2K miles) has squeaks/ticks in the dash directly over the speedometer and other guages (rpm, etc). When you push down on it, it squeaks and I hear it faily consitently over bumps, etc. There are two screws that hold the cheap plastic to the dash right around the guages, but they are flush and tight. Kind of bugs me, but I turn up the stereo so not to fixate on it. Should be tomb quiet for the price they charge for a new rig. Not sure I want the stealer to mess with it at this point, but just curious if you or anyone else has the same issue. Otherwise, it is fairly rattle free.

 

[spressomon]

It's really depressing to hear of your '05 & ''06 LC woes. You would think for the darn money they ask for these now 9-year old platforms they could do a better job on the build quality...especially since the LC is still sourced in Japan....really depressing!

 

[Jim_Chow]

If you can't get toyota to buy back your LC, I'd trade it in for a LX and take the hit. After all, it has a clean title, hasn't been in any accidents, and is in mind cond, so you should be able to get top dollar for it. Just make sure the dealer you buy from will bend over backwards for the sale. There should be a number of dealers in LA w/ '06 LX's who are willing to deal on them since everyone knows the '08's will be a new model (and most new lexus buyers are concerned about having the latest body style since they don't hold on to the vehicles for more than 2 yrs on the average before trading them in for another).

 

[a990dna]

spressomon, et al --

Yea this really pisses me off... I specifically tracked down a 2005 in the color and options I wanted -- and got a fleet deal under invoice to boot.

I test drove and could have bought a new '06 but I didn't care for the front grill treatment and the TJ looking rear spoiler -- plus the added HP really didn't amount to much in the seat-of-the-pants feel -- the torque curve is essentially the same. Since then they readjusted the 275hp downward anyway -- the rear wing probably takes 20 of that...

My timing and decision was calculated to get an '05 -- I was happy. I'm more disappointed I can't replace it with the same classic conservative look. I sold my race car several months ago and I was getting ready to throw some money at it to build it like yours spresso -- I really like what you did.

I was willing to live with the rear seat rattle... but I won't live with a frame rail problem especially when planning on modifications -- then I'd really be stuck with no recourse with Toyota.

I need a strategy for arbitration.. maybe I can use some of this stuff as the premise for a buy back / trade agreement.

thoughts ? ...

 

[spressomon]

spressomon, et al --

Yea this really pisses me off... I specifically tracked down a 2005 in the color and options I wanted -- and got a fleet deal under invoice to boot.

I test drove and could have bought a new '06 but I didn't care for the front grill treatment and the TJ looking rear spoiler -- plus the added HP really didn't amount to much in the seat-of-the-pants feel -- the torque curve is essentially the same. Since then they readjusted the 275hp downward anyway -- the rear wing probably takes 20 of that...

My timing and decision was calculated to get an '05 -- I was happy. I'm more disappointed I can't replace it with the same classic conservative look. I sold my race car several months ago and I was getting ready to throw some money at it to build it like yours spresso -- I really like what you did.

I was willing to live with the rear seat rattle... but I won't live with a frame rail problem especially when planning on modifications -- then I'd really be stuck with no recourse with Toyota.

I need a strategy for arbitration.. maybe I can use some of this stuff as the premise for a buy back / trade agreement.

thoughts ? ...

Attorney?

 

[a990dna]

I was thinking that but didn't know you can bring an attorney... maybe I need to make a call -- thanks.

 

[spressomon]

I was thinking that but didn't know you can bring an attorney... maybe I need to make a call -- thanks.

I just went through a mediation process (different from arbitration because it is non-binding) with my attorney running point.

 

[Tinkerer]

Hard to believe that the stealer service dept cannot fix a knocking noise in the frame/chassis.

Really.

Thought of trying another stealer?

Binding arbitration might be risky? What if the arbitration is not favorable to you?

 

[a990dna]

In order for a manufacturer-sponsored arbitration program to be certified in most states, it must meet the following requirements of the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) for mediation procedures: it must be free of charge; it must be non-binding to the consumer; its decisions must, in general, be given within 40 days after receipt of the buyer's complaint; and its decisions must be free from the influence of the manufacturer.

Arbitration in a lemon law context is an informal and usually useless process that consumers may use to try and resolve a warranty dispute outside of the court system by presenting it to a third party (ie. the Dispute Settlement Board, Better Business Bureau, etc.) for a decision. In California it is legally binding on the manufacturer only.

I've been doing some reading... it appears it's not binding as far as I'm concerned. This is a third-party Dispute Settlement Program sponsored by Toyota -- if we can reach an agreement no need to go any further.

 

[NMuzj100]

If it is non-binding on you and only takes 40 days then it is probably a good deal for you.

According to the first link they wil prorate the value of the vehicle at close to $.50 a mile. Purchase price ($60k) / 120,000 = depreciation per mile. Subtract out all the milage for for trips to the dealer and days the vehicle has been out of service and you might be in a pretty good position.

Can you tell us where the black spray paint was applied and maybe post a picture. It may help other detirmine if they have the same problem.

 

[a990dna]

If it is non-binding on you and only takes 40 days then it is probably a good deal for you.

According to the first link they wil prorate the value of the vehicle at close to $.50 a mile. Purchase price ($60k) / 120,000 = depreciation per mile. Subtract out all the milage for for trips to the dealer and days the vehicle has been out of service and you might be in a pretty good position.

Can you tell us where the black spray paint was applied and maybe post a picture. It may help other detirmine if they have the same problem.

I will be surprised if Toyota caves in that easy... I'm expecting resistance based on the severity of the problem from their perspective.

If you look under your LC somewhere between the A-pilar and driver seat you'll see an access hole(s) in the side of the frame rail. They said they clamped, moved or tweaked (depending who it is) "multi-layer material" inside the frame rail -- and accessing this "multi-layer material" through the hole(s). They sprayed black paint around or near the access hole.

I can't imagine what they did inside the frame... I can't see a clamp going in there.. maybe a hammer and chisel or possibly a crow bar.

I have a lot of questions myself -- especially related to the lack of a documented fix for a defective frame rail.

 

[Josh83]

I know a guy that went to arbitration with toyota over a bent wheel from the factory. He had a vibration, toyota said bad tire...blah blah blah. They went through something like 20 tires. He kept asking them to put on a new wheel. He finally took them to arbitration and got a new wheel. Maybe they will do a frame swap...

 

[NMuzj100]

I will be surprised if Toyota caves in that easy... I'm expecting resistance based on the severity of the problem from their perspective.

Get some of the Toyota propaganda about the frame's improved resistance to flex and how that results in a better ride and handling. How they increased the crossmembers from 7 to 9 from the 80. Benchmarked it against and surpassed the Landrover in frame stiffness. Then you can explain why you think the frame is important to the vehicle. Because Toyota thought the frame was important to the vehicle.

 

[a990dna]

Thanks -- good information for reference.

I crawled under last night to see what the SM was actually talking about. If you look directly under the A-pilar you'll see a large bracket welded to the frame rail where the body mounts to... look into the bracket and there's a hole on the side of the frame with what appears to be two layers of sheetmetal overlapping each other -- they appear to be attached somehow to the inside part the outer frame rail.

The driver side and passenger side are the same...

These are the areas that were repainted black... it looks like they tried tapping the "multi-layer material" (their words) to relocate or reposition them so they don't make noise or "pop" upon articulation. According to the SM the sheet metal layers are buckling when the frame flexes.. but the damn things are inside the boxed frame.

Any ideas what purpose they serve?