My new 2005 LC frame problem

[dhula]

having done a 'down to chassis (frame) rebuild on a 1940's chev truck I would say go the buyback/new car turnover.

I did a 1940's era chev truck. Simple as hell compared to a LC of nowadays. But it still was a project and a half (and then some)

Don't get me wrong, it could be done,

but would it be done right

 

[cruiser88]

my last frame job was on a 88 dodge d50.did it outside with a tripod simple hand tools and a comealong.was real easy once the cab and bed was off.i had no help,and was very happy about 2 weeks later

 

[NMuzj100]

I think that whoever guessed 50 labor hours for frame R&R must have been smoking crack.

 

[1loudLX]

I think that whoever guessed 50 labor hours for frame R&R must have been smoking crack.

LoL!



Go for buyback/replacement vehicle. Do NOT accept a frame replacement, thats just silly.

 

[Jim_Chow]

Yeah, it's like trying to install a new foundation for a house.

The only way you should ever accept a frame replacement for the LC is if they ship it back to Japan to the LC factory, shut down the assembly line, then run the vehicle in reverse on the assembly line and all the guys who assembled it disassemble it in reverse. They roll in a new frame, bolt up the engine/drivetrain, then reinstall everything in the proper order. Meanwhile, you are watching all this happen over days and have Toyota pay for all your travel expenses while the work is being done. Make sure they ship your LC by air (will likely have to go in a chartered military cargo plane, as commercial cargo planes are configured for roll in shipping containers) to minimize months of shipping delays. Yes, this plan sounds absolutely absurd, but so is the entire idea of a frame replacement.

 

[Dandon]

Wow! That would be a worthwhile experience!

 

[e9999]

well, is this a consensus or what....?

 

[aedgington]

I'm really surprised Longo and/or Toyota hasn't stepped up and resolved this. I still think they ought to swap you w/ an 05 w/ similar miles and dispose of your vehicle however they want.

Also, if they DO some crazy frame rail replacement fix, your truck will always bear that stigma. A vehicle branded frame damaged/frame repaired is worth thousands less at the auction.

An '05 LC w/ decent miles is worth about $40K wholesale. The same vehicle frame repaired? No idea. I wouldn't even bid on it at $35K.

When you trade that vehicle in, you will be royally screwed if the frame has been worked on.

 

[1loudLX]

Jim, this is the funniest s*** ive read in days! Wow thats great. I personallyl would LOVE to watch my car go on reverse at the assembly line...I could say, i have the only LX470 that was built TWICE at the factory!

Yeah, it's like trying to install a new foundation for a house.

The only way you should ever accept a frame replacement for the LC is if they ship it back to Japan to the LC factory, shut down the assembly line, then run the vehicle in reverse on the assembly line and all the guys who assembled it disassemble it in reverse. They roll in a new frame, bolt up the engine/drivetrain, then reinstall everything in the proper order. Meanwhile, you are watching all this happen over days and have Toyota pay for all your travel expenses while the work is being done. Make sure they ship your LC by air (will likely have to go in a chartered military cargo plane, as commercial cargo planes are configured for roll in shipping containers) to minimize months of shipping delays. Yes, this plan sounds absolutely absurd, but so is the entire idea of a frame replacement.

 

[cruiser88]

Wow! That would be a worthwhile experience! [/quote a little jap guy showed up at my dads house with a axle in his hands ,and said i really want to know how you broke this thing.true story dad had trouble with the dealerships on a replacement

 

[a990dna]

Hey guys, again thanks for the input... I've been busy with a bunch of other stuff and haven't been able to write. I called the attorney I've used on a couple of cases in the past, he doesn't litigate this kind of stuff -- 90% of his case load is defense work for auto insurance companies. I was hoping he could give me a referral in OC area, unfortunately he doesn't know anyone.

Most of the lemon law attorney Web sites look like ambulance chasers -- not my style.

well, is this a consensus or what....?

Yep... 15/15 says buyback.

I'm really surprised Longo and/or Toyota hasn't stepped up and resolved this.

I do want a lawyer to review this before I contact Toyota again. I'm not too surprised Longo and/or Toyota hasn't stepped up to the plate.. the buyback laws in California are pretty strict and will seal the fate of this vehicle.

I found this during my research last night:

DMV Vehicle Code --

Lemon Law Buyback Vehicle

This is a vehicle which has been reacquired by a vehicle manufacturer, effective January 1, 1996, because of specified warranty defect(s). The vehicle is registered in the manufacturer's name prior to resale.

What Is Required of the Manufacturer?

The manufacturer upon reacquiring a vehicle because of specified warranty defect(s) must:

- Request the Certificate of Title and Registration Certificate be marked "Lemon Law Buyback."
- Title the vehicle in the manufacturer's name.

The manufacturer will attach a decal to the vehicle. The decal will read "Lemon Law Buyback" and will be affixed to the:

- Left door frame or
- Frame of the major entry into the vehicle such as the front right door frame of a motorhome.
- Left side of a vehicle without doors, such as a motorcycle.

Additional Requirements

When a warranty return vehicle is sold, the transferee must be notified, on letter size paper, of the following:

- The year, make, model, and vehicle identification number.
- That the vehicle title is marked "Lemon Law Buyback."
- The nature of each nonconformity reported by the original buyer or lessee of the vehicle.
- Repairs, if any, made to the vehicle in an attempt to correct each nonconformity.

 

[valkyrie610]

I think that whoever guessed 50 labor hours for frame R&R must have been smoking crack.

Same guy who guessed $3,000 for a frame... it's about double that @ $5,600.

Do not accept a frame swap.

If you are forced, perhaps you can file for diminished claim through your insurance and have them go after Toyota in civil court, which also gives you the opportunity to seek additional compensatory damages.

Maybe simply the discussion of that (plus notifying the media) might help stack the deck.

Uncomfortable porspect for them, on the verge of launching the new Tundra and a new LC next year.

 

[a990dna]

Same guy who guessed $3,000 for a frame... it's about double that @ $5,600.

Do not accept a frame swap.

If you are forced, perhaps you can file for diminished claim through your insurance and have them go after Toyota in civil court, which also gives you the opportunity to seek additional compensatory damages.

Maybe simply the discussion of that (plus notifying the media) might help stack the deck.

Uncomfortable porspect for them, on the verge of launching the new Tundra and a new LC next year.

The service manager said 50 hrs -- that's probably standard hours. I guessed $3K for the frame. Since then I called another dealer for the frame cost. You're correct $5,600 retail... but it's $4,480 (20% disc) wholesale to a body shop.

I had to fib to get wholesale price... I said I worked out of my garage but had a resale ID.

Toyota's gross margins are probably 50% on this item which would make that about $2,800. I wasn't too far off.

The total cost will be about $10K to replace the frame. Add that to the warranty repairs over the past nine months for a grand total of $12K kinda makes this vehicle a lemon IMO.

I've talked to a few business associates as well.. I may avoid retaining an attorney for now and pursue diminished value by securing a certified appraisal and maybe trying to get the Toyota engineer in my court -- or possibly another round of arbitration.

A lot of good comments and suggestions here --

 

[justinh]

you may check out ttora as well, there are two people who have suffered frame failures around the motor mounts on 2005 Tacomas. Totally different situations and vehicle but a good indication of toyota frame issues.

http://www.tacomaterritory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=49360

 

[kitkraft]

This is incredible! I think I'd ask my atty friend to check Martindale-Hubble for an AV rated lawyer in your neck of the woods that handles deceptive trade practice cases and go after these folks....Toyota, NA (or whatever) AND the dealer...........
Good luck........

 

[a990dna]

you may check out ttora as well, there are two people who have suffered frame failures around the motor mounts on 2005 Tacomas. Totally different situations and vehicle but a good indication of toyota frame issues.

http://www.tacomaterritory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=49360

Thanks for that link.. interesting content if you can muster up enough time to read through 300+ posts -- it goes off into the weeds with insults and stuff. I guess we now have links across websites with techs and dealers watching what happens with my LC. I don't mind but I'll need to be discrete about future strategies and actions... I have $60K on the line here.

 

[valkyrie610]

One of dealers here is rooting for you.

 

[a990dna]

Update:

A new frame is on order as of today..

This is like playing a contentious game of poker with Toyota.... if they only knew the cards I'm holding in my sleeves.

 

[SWUtah]

Update:

A new frame is on order as of today..

This is like playing a contentious game of poker with Toyota.... if they only knew the cards I'm holding in my sleeves.

Keep us posted. Why did they order the frame? Are you going to let them do a frame swap? and then just sue them in court for demished value?

 

[a990dna]

I have two consultants on my wings... a state certified vehicle appraiser/arbitrator and lemon law attorney -- so far they've offered valuable insight.

At this point there's no choice in the matter.. in court, Toyota attorney's will simply argue: "but judge, we want to replace the frame for our customer, he won't cooperate"..

in the end the decision will force the frame replacement.

We (service dept and I) opened the repair order today and documented the mileage and actions... I have people there on my side now -- we had a good discussion.

I'll know more over the next two weeks before the frame arrives.