Won't start when hot

[grrlscout89FJ62]

My 62 has started this thing where it won't start if it's hot. It didn't it off and on before, but it was more random. Now, it's due to a specific set of circumstances.

Since temps have been in the one-teens daily here, the 62 gets pretty warm frequently. Usually, when I get home from work, the temp needle is around the 3rd hash mark.

If I'm running the AC full blast or there's bad traffic the needle gets past the third hash mark. On a long, steep climb, it just about touches the red.

Then, once I cut it off, it won't start again. There's no cranking, just dash lights, and the voltage needle jumps to 12-ish. Sometimes on the second or third turn, it'll stop at 8v.

Usually, I just let it sit for about half an hour, then it'll start -- often, a little reluctantly.

I know I need to pay some attention to the rad. I've been toting around a new t-stat, upper housing, and all sortsa hoses for months now. But keeping it cool seems to me like it might just be addressing part of the problem.

Also, I don't know if it means anything, but lately, after I'm done driving, and I go around the passenger side, there's the strong smell of fuel.

Thanks in advance for any ideas you might have on the subject!

 

[cabron]

ever replaced the fan clutch?

 

[Heartworm]

These are wild guesses. I have heard of starters causing problems when they get hot. I think what happens is the armature gets hot and expands and thus binds. The starter won't turn over until it cools down some and shrinks to stop the binding. The other thing is that all the gas could boil out of the carb, but usually takes some time to happen and what you are telling us is the no-start thing is immediate. I would also wonder about an electrical connection going bad. There are many knowledgeable people on the board. Hopefully, they will chime in.

 

[grrlscout89FJ62]

cabron: as far as I know, the fan clutch has never been replaced. I asked both shops I have taken it to recently about it, and they both said that it seemed to be in good shape.

heartworm: I just replaced my starter last summer. I'm not saying that it's not possible that it took a s*** again. But I would wonder what would cause it to do so.

Alt was replaced 2.5 years ago. Battery and cables were replaced about 2 months ago.

It does have a nest of wires under the dash, including those for the alarm and stereo.

I'm leaning toward a starting / ignition systems problem more than a charging problem though.

Another thought... maybe this is just a safety "feature." Perhaps it's supposed to not start when it's too hot - to prevent any engine damage. Just guessing here too.

 

[Kavik]

Not scientific, but to see if the fan clutch is working...

Open the hood while the truck is warming up. Take note how much air is moving. Then, when it's nice and hot, pull over and pop the hood. The clutch should be fully engaged and moving a crazy amount of air. You should not be able to lean over the engine(too much hot air blowing around). It should feel like a thousand pissed off hair dryers.

As for the starting problem, I had an older Suburban that I put 3 Checker Auto starters in before I got a "good" one. The weak ones didn't want to crank when hot.

My guess is your strarter is good, but suffering from the heat.

Try running the heater full blast and see if it takes the temp down a bit. That will tell you are moving enough coolant, but not enough air.

 

[Wile E Coyote]

Def. look at ignition circuit as the culprit. As temps go up. so does electrical resistance in wiring/components. Enough heat soak, and no start. I don't yet know Cruisers well enough for specifics, but look at the distributor pickups, coil/ignitor, etc. and associated wiring. Might have to get good and friendly with an ohmmeter.
With the new starter, did you replace the starter cable as well? Remember, the cables can look fine, but be corroded inside, so grab that meter and get to work!

 

[doncrete]

absolutely! i have had the same problem with my fj60 / chevy 350. the first thing we did was try to run it as cool as possible which meant installing the best electric fan i could find. second, i replaced the starter (upgrade) but that didnt seem to do anything.
(when the same thing happened to my ford e350 van, someone meantioned a type of gasket or something that keeps the starter from absorbing so much engine heat, this really only applies if the starter is the problem.)
third, i replaced one cable and thoroughly cleaned terminals and connections. that seems to have done it, unless i really dog it, like catching second or just haulin ass, which gets the lil 350 a little too hot anyway and subsequently means waiting before a restart i have a temp guage which helps.
so i feel like if you dont have a cooling issue, then i would assess the terms/cable/connects.

 

[TheJackRabbit]

Heartworm is on the money. If your engine won't crank when hot the starter is overheated and not making contact. You might want to replace the starter eventually. The immediate question is why is the engine getting so hot? Fan clutch? possibly. When was the last time you had the coolant system power flushed and refilled? I don't know about the 3F but the 2F can weep casting material that cloges radiator passages reducing cooling. A power flush is never a waste of money in your climate. What engine oil are you using? Does the weight have enough viscosity for the extreme temps of your climate? I remember driving my FJ60 to Tucson in July of 1988. The car was only a year old then. It was one hot trip!

That fuel smell on the passenger side might be the fuel tank venting. When you smell the gas try poping the fuel tank cap and see if pressure is released into the atmosphere. Al Gore won't approve but you might have a better idea of what is up.

 

[prairie wolf]

I was told , and it makes sense, that when an engine is hot and then shut off, it will get even hotter for a while as it sits. It builds it own heat so to speak, since i was told that I try to let a hot engine run awhile not under any load to cool a bit before shut off. I was also told that shutting a hot motor off is not good for it, because the metal that does not have coolant running past it can warp,crack.

But 3/4 on the temp gauge of a toyota may not be that hot in real world terms.

happy 4th. kent

 

[mrsvle]

grrlscout,

Does your 62 have a carb cooling fan like the 60's that runs for several minutes after the engine is shut off? I know that if this fan goes out on the 60's it makes for very hard starts when the weather heats up.

Also it sounds like you're just running hot all around, not surprising given the temps in Phoenix; an electric pusher fan can help keep it out of the red zone, but ultimately the solution will be a new radiator, about $200 for a decent aftermarket one, I'm sure they're in stock around Phoenix and not too difficult to install yourself.

HTH

Matt

 

[TheJackRabbit]

When my 2F has its poor little tounge hanging out from the heat, I pop the hood and prop it open about six inches to cool off when parked. I figure all that heat has to go somewhere; better not into the interior. This is my contribution to Global Warming.

 

[Elbert]

If the starter is not turning over....its not a temp problem as far as the vehicle temperature. I would make sure your connections are good, your battery is good, and you have good battery cables and no corresion at the battery or anywhwere else.2nd you'll have to look at the ign swith or relays invovled with the starter operation. Then obviously your starter needs to be in good condition.

As I understand the original msg....you are saying the starter is not engaging or turning over itself. If this is true then I suggest you check the above. If the truck is running hot, thats a seperate concern.

 

[grrlscout89FJ62]

Not scientific, but to see if the fan clutch is working...

Open the hood while the truck is warming up. Take note how much air is moving. Then, when it's nice and hot, pull over and pop the hood. The clutch should be fully engaged and moving a crazy amount of air. You should not be able to lean over the engine(too much hot air blowing around). It should feel like a thousand pissed off hair dryers.

I'll try that!

As for the starting problem, I had an older Suburban that I put 3 Checker Auto starters in before I got a "good" one. The weak ones didn't want to crank when hot.

I think the one I have in there is a NAPA one.

 

[grrlscout89FJ62]

With the new starter, did you replace the starter cable as well? Remember, the cables can look fine, but be corroded inside, so grab that meter and get to work!

No, I did not. I'll check into that too.

 

[grrlscout89FJ62]

When was the last time you had the coolant system power flushed and refilled?

Last summer. But it was still pretty gunky even afterwards.

What engine oil are you using? Does the weight have enough viscosity for the extreme temps of your climate?

Dunno. I'll have to check the lil sticker.

 

[grrlscout89FJ62]

Does your 62 have a carb cooling fan like the 60's that runs for several minutes after the engine is shut off?

Yes, but it runs intermittitantly. I don't know if it only runs when it reaches a certain temp, or if it's starting to crap out.

 

[grrlscout89FJ62]

When my 2F has its poor little tounge hanging out from the heat, I pop the hood and prop it open about six inches to cool off when parked. I figure all that heat has to go somewhere; better not into the interior. This is my contribution to Global Warming.

good idear! I better stash something in there that can use as a prop.

 

[grrlscout89FJ62]

Thanks for all your suggestions! I will be checking them all out.

 

[Mountain Goat]

Overheating? Strong smell of fuel?

I didn't see anyone address the idea of a fuel injection problem. Do you ever smell fuel when driving? Does the exhaust smell rich? Does your fuel comsumption appear normal (approx. 13-15mpg)?

If I recall correctly (I don't own a 62) the 3F has a single throttle body fuel injector. The throttle body in a fuel injected engine is often the point where the EGR pipe returns exhaust gasses to the intake AND where some sensors are located. It's easy for the throttle body, sensors, and injector to get crapped up with carbon from the exhaust gas. A quick visual inspection by removing the duct connected to it and looking inside can tell you if you are having such a problem. Some carb cleaner and a toothbrush are a cheap fix. You might have to hold the throttle plate open with one hand and spray/scrub with the other.

My 2 cents. Keep in mind that I haven't personally worked on a 3F.

Good luck!

 

[hj60]

Mountain Goat-
FYI: 3f engine is batch-fire port injection with a cold start injector.
It's got 7 injectors.