Wits End Order Issues / Joey Romero

[Francis K]

An unfortunate situation especially when new owners come in all the time and don’t know what they don’t know. Back when Mud was the hub, the community helped raise red flags more effectively; now the conversation is scattered across social media platforms, where these vendors have lines in the water and market freely. I met a guy recently who bought from a vendor mentioned in this section multiple times with no idea of the vendors track record and reached out asking if I knew anything about them. That’s the whole play. They don’t need the entire community, just a steady trickle of new, unsuspecting people. That’s how a con sustains itself: avoid the informed, target the uninitiated. Add in people who will continue defending a vendor who has a documented history of fraud, and it’s easy to see how confusion keeps the cycle going.

I'm not so sure I agree it's always been an issue and for the same exact reasons, before social media was what it is now what happened with wits end still happened here and guys still covered it up and made excuses letting other guys get ripped off with the exact same BS they pulled here "community, one man show, good intentions, personal problems...bs bs etc etc blah blah blah". I was one of the last ones to buy an EMS exhaust long after it was well known that they were worth nothing but their weight in scrap metal, even after it all came out people still made excuses for them and I was told not to speak up.....this was well before any social media communities where vendors could hide, all happened right here on mud out in the open with no shame or remorse.

This is why it's important to let people be heard and not put up with people trying to shut them down. It's specifically why I don't keep my mouth shut anymore and don't let anyone knock it down when I speak up, I don't want anyone else to get ripped off. I don't give a bit that one fanboy boot licker had a good experience it doesn't change the fact that a dozen other guys got ripped off or even that ONE guy got ripped off, that person is the one that needs to keep their mouth shut and be knocked down not the other way around. Vendors are not doing us a favor out of the kindness of their hearts for charity by taking our money, that attitude has to go they need to be held accountable so the cream can rise to the top while the scammers go away because their scam dried up, that will benefit everyone who is honest vendor and customer.

 

[SNLC]

I'm not so sure I agree it's always been an issue and for the same exact reasons, before social media was what it is now what happened with wits end still happened here and guys still covered it up and made excuses letting other guys get ripped off with the exact same BS they pulled here "community, one man show, good intentions, personal problems...bs bs etc etc blah blah blah". I was one of the last ones to buy an EMS exhaust long after it was well known that they were worth nothing but their weight in scrap metal, even after it all came out people still made excuses for them and I was told not to speak up.....this was well before any social media communities where vendors could hide, all happened right here on mud out in the open with no shame or remorse.

This is why it's important to let people be heard and not put up with people trying to shut them down. It's specifically why I don't keep my mouth shut anymore and don't let anyone knock it down when I speak up, I don't want anyone else to get ripped off. I don't give a bit that one fanboy boot licker had a good experience it doesn't change the fact that a dozen other guys got ripped off or even that ONE guy got ripped off, that person is the one that needs to keep their mouth shut and be knocked down not the other way around. Vendors are not doing us a favor out of the kindness of their hearts for charity by taking our money, that attitude has to go they need to be held accountable so the cream can rise to the top while the scammers go away because their scam dried up, that will benefit everyone who is honest vendor and customer.

Just an example of what a reputable business will do;

I am eating $15k on a job right now which may go to $20k. I feel it is due to subcontracts and overseas parts. However, it’s my business and it went through me with my recommendations to the customer.

As a result I am responsible even if not at fault and I MUST stand behind the work/products and eat all the cost to make it right. In addition I must apologize to the customer, that’s hard when we are not to blame.

I would love to see some kind of list of shops or retailers that do this. Considering I have seen the opposite come out of other shops, I put my money on very few.

Perhaps this is why we have been booked out for years.

Still sucks massively for me but again, I stand behind what I sell even if it was the wrong decision.

Cheers

 

[Francis K]

Just an example of what a reputable business will do;

I am eating $15k on a job right now which may go to $20k. I feel it is due to subcontracts and overseas parts. However, it’s my business and it went through me with my recommendations to the customer.

As a result I am responsible even if not at fault and I MUST stand behind the work/products and eat all the cost to make it right. In addition I must apologize to the customer, that’s hard when we are not to blame.

I would love to see some kind of list of shops or retailers that do this. Considering I have seen the opposite come out of other shops, I put my money on very few.

Perhaps this is why we have been booked out for years.

Still sucks massively for me but again, I stand behind what I sell even if it was the wrong decision.

Cheers

That is absolutely the reason why you are booked out for years and you deserve to be.

 

[heckler]

Just an example of what a reputable business will do;

I am eating $15k on a job right now which may go to $20k. I feel it is due to subcontracts and overseas parts. However, it’s my business and it went through me with my recommendations to the customer.

As a result I am responsible even if not at fault and I MUST stand behind the work/products and eat all the cost to make it right. In addition I must apologize to the customer, that’s hard when we are not to blame.

I would love to see some kind of list of shops or retailers that do this. Considering I have seen the opposite come out of other shops, I put my money on very few.

Perhaps this is why we have been booked out for years.

Still sucks massively for me but again, I stand behind what I sell even if it was the wrong decision.

Cheers

Sorry about your loss, but my hats off to you in the way you handled it. I am sure it will pay off in the future.

Having been one of the ones that got ripped off by Joey in the turbo scandal it has really turned me off from my land cruiser obsession at times. I have been a part of this forum for over 20 years (since I was 19) and have really enjoyed until this fiasco.

 

[heckler]

Looks like that business is failing as well.

View attachment 3980937

This is crazy, I assume the stat has shut him down.

 

[raisinhell2]

Just an example of what a reputable business will do;

I am eating $15k on a job right now which may go to $20k. I feel it is due to subcontracts and overseas parts. However, it’s my business and it went through me with my recommendations to the customer.

As a result I am responsible even if not at fault and I MUST stand behind the work/products and eat all the cost to make it right. In addition I must apologize to the customer, that’s hard when we are not to blame.

I would love to see some kind of list of shops or retailers that do this. Considering I have seen the opposite come out of other shops, I put my money on very few.

Perhaps this is why we have been booked out for years.

Still sucks massively for me but again, I stand behind what I sell even if it was the wrong decision.

Cheers

It's not the wrong decision as you said you hold yourself accountable on everything that goes out of your shop. I do the same . Haven't had 1 that large. I've eaten a few grand before . Subcontractors and parts, boy I know that story. It's hard to find Subs that do the same quality work as I do . I only deal with ones that do and sometimes I turn Jobs away because it isn't something we do in house if don't have a solid proven sub that handles it . Same with parts and vendors. If a company doesn't stand behind the product they sell 120% I don't do business with them . Iv'e stopped doing business with a few better known vendors Due to this . My outlook on it is just this . If you sell me a part and it's not correct you handle it , don't send me to the manufacturer. Ill spend that 30k a yr with someone who does stand behind everything they sell. Sadly people with this type of integrity are getting harder and harder to find but we are out here. As you said best way to find 1 try to book an appointment. I think bad shops, bad vendors, bad sellers should be outed ( so should good shops). But how to do that in today's world of social media and how people just flame each other? Myself I won't out shop none of us are perfect and all make mistakes Plus it just looks petty. If directly asked I will share whatever experience I had with vendor, shop ,seller. Good, bad or whatever leaving opinion out of it . This isn't just here in our community it seems to be everywhere and much worse post covid. Right now I'm in the process of taking my accountant to court for services not completed and or done incorrectly. stuff like this just adds to the stress of being a small Land Cruiser shop. In closing I had a problem with a super charger rebuild 1st of the year. Lost over 1 lb of boost after the rebuild send it back 6 months after install Shop tore it down inspected it . Owner called me on the phone told me just how his employee screwed the pooch handled it without question. That shop has a customer for life.

 

[PDXDave67]

They seem to gloss over the legal court involvement for the whole theft/fraud for the quasi ponzi scheme and blame the consumers who experienced from the theft.

Twilight Zone stuff...

Phill is a punk who has his lips permanently attached to Joeys ass...

 

[PDXDave67]

Someone posted the amount. It was North of 300K. I can't believe no one has paid little Joey a visit. He shouldn't be too hard to find.

The conversation was hdad amongst the a few of the ripped off turbo guys and it was decided that the potential fallout wasn't worth the satisfaction of His Joeyness being smashed like a fkn bug...

 

[PDXDave67]

I was unaware of His Joeyness's involvement with the seat mounting company...
Hopefully that will completely s*** the bed sooner than later.
I have a set of Scheel Mann's in Jean Claude Damn Van and absolutely love them, but the thought of that little turd hiding behind yet another company "owned" by his brother is infuriating.

 

[Broski]

I have pay the devils advocate here.
I don’t care how trustworthy, well established, well known or liked a company is.
If a if a product is backordered, you should never pay more than 20% down to get your place in line. If you’re lusting for a product so bad that you’re willing to pay 100% upfront knowing that it’s at least a year out you’re just setting yourself up for a disaster.
I do think that companies that take your money knowing damn well they don’t have a product are thieves as well.
I do feel bad about the good folks that got taken advantage of.
This should be a learning experience don’t put yourself in a vulnerable position.

 

[1973Guppie]

I have pay the devils advocate here.
I don’t care how trustworthy, well established, well known or liked a company is.
If a if a product is backordered, you should never pay more than 20% down to get your place in line. If you’re lusting for a product so bad that you’re willing to pay 100% upfront knowing that it’s at least a year out you’re just setting yourself up for a disaster.
I do think that companies that take your money knowing damn well they don’t have a product are thieves as well.
I do feel bad about the good folks that got taken advantage of.
This should be a learning experience don’t put yourself in a vulnerable position.

Agreed. I feel bad for those that got scammed but it's a rule of mine (and should be of everyone) to only give the 90 days to receive an item I pay for on my credit card. At day 85 I simply contest charges. Your just asking for trouble if you give your $ with zero recourse.

 

[NeverFinis]

Agreed. I feel bad for those that got scammed but it's a rule of mine (and should be of everyone) to only give the 90 days to receive an item I pay for on my credit card. At day 85 I simply contest charges. Your just asking for trouble if you give your $ with zero recourse.

90 days? You are too generous! It is 30 days for me, the US Federal legal requirement for shipping paid orders. One exceptions would be built to order, like a bumper. I then would extend it to 90 days.


I ordered one thing from Wits End, metric bolts, and I contested the charge at day 31 when they failed to ship. I then ordered them directly from the source and got them within a few days.

 

[raisinhell2]

Someone posted the amount. It was North of 300K. I can't believe no one has paid little Joey a visit. He shouldn't be too hard to find.

I think Joey should have to attend every land cruiser event in the USA for a yr . He should by tarred and feathered and ran up a flag pole at every one . Then after that we welcome him back into the community. All the mods from the face book should have to join him on the flag pole at cruise Moab for trying gaslight all of us about him .

 

[Dubbinchris]

I think Joey should have to attend every land cruiser event in the USA for a yr . He should by tarred and feathered and ran up a flag pole at every one . Then after that we welcome him back into the community. All the mods from the face book should have to join him on the flag pole at cruise Moab for trying gaslight all of us about him .

He should never be welcomed back!!

 

[PIP]

I think Joey should have to attend every land cruiser event in the USA for a yr . He should by tarred and feathered and ran up a flag pole at every one . Then after that we welcome him back into the community. All the mods from the face book should have to join him on the flag pole at cruise Moab for trying gaslight all of us about him .

I was under the impression most of the Facebook mods were just Joey using different names.

 

[1973Guppie]

90 days? You are too generous! It is 30 days for me, the US Federal legal requirement for shipping paid orders. One exceptions would be built to order, like a bumper. I then would extend it to 90 days.


I ordered one thing from Wits End, metric bolts, and I contested the charge at day 31 when they failed to ship. I then ordered them directly from the source and got them within a few days.

I think it's 90 days, whatever my credit card say is the limit to contest......

 

[raisinhell2]

I was under the impression most of the Facebook mods were just Joey using different names.

Sadly most are not . But he is apart of the Admin team for the Facebook group. It's sad.

 

[Broski]

Sadly most are not . But he is apart of the Admin team for the Facebook group. It's sad.

Sad fact in life, S*HT rises to the top.