Windshield - Am I being BS'd? (1 Viewer)

[BTLSHP]

1994 Landcruiser 80 Series 245k miles, garaged until 2017 with a persistent leak at the windshield. Sunroof is mostly used to test the sunroof drains now and then.

Bit of a story, short version is neighbor noticed a spot of rust on the windshield frame. He is the former owner of a body shop. He had me send it there to reset with windshield done by Satellite in 2017. I brought them a new Toyota gasket. New owner insisted he knew Toyota truck windshields inside and out....

Round #1 - Leak on driver's side that pooled on top of rubber floor mat. It was obvious zero sealant was used.
Round #2 - They said they used sealant, but again it leaked at lower driver's side corner it was a solid flow of water in rain.
Round #3 - They gave it back to me on a rainy day. Owner tells me the roof is leaking at the forward roof rack rail mount. (I have my doubts) His #2 is saying, "No", it leaks through the sunroof and headliner - I do not understand that leak in the context of water between the glass and molding. I have only once seen water at the headliner and that was lower A-pillar on the pax side. It was a horrendous rain and I have never seen it since cleaning the sunroof drains immediately after. That was 3+ years ago.

Anyway it still leaks in the lower corners, worse than ever. My perception is while driving home once I got to 35-40 mph and rainwater started flowing horizontally across the windshield, I could literally see a blob of water gather outside, run down the vertical molding and then appear inside the windshield in the lower corner. Then it runs down and spills over the molding.

I am having trouble with the images, so please assume the passenger side is the same as the driver side below. While driving the water pools right at the corner above the little diagonal bit of rubber flash.

They do not want to touch the car again. They did offer to have me give it to another nearby shop and if they determined it was the install they would cover the cost. I worry the nearby shop is not independent. I am out about $900 and my priority is a dry interior.

It is raining heavily outside I may take it out to test the sunroof.

 

[LC4LIFE]

I have solved that exact issue by running urethane about ten inches up the a-pillar and down the cowl on the outside in between the glass and gasket. You are definitely seeing a leak coming in from the windshield/gasket.

 

[BTLSHP]

Okay, I tried some silicone tape wire the glass and molding meet. It did not last long, but seemed to slow the ingress while it lasted......so perhaps urethane is in order.

Separately, after pouring two cups of water in to test the drains (fine) and 5 miles of riving in heavy rain, the headliner was damp along the door gasket from a brown stain opposite the shade to the middle of the grab handle. I guess i need to research sunroof leaks?

 

[robnicko]

I have solved that exact issue by running urethane about ten inches up the a-pillar and down the cowl on the outside in between the glass and gasket. You are definitely seeing a leak coming in from the windshield/gasket.

I too did the above but ended up running the urethane around the entire screen by lifting the rubber bit by bit and pumping the sealant in.

the thing is when driving along in rain the water runs up the screen, gets under that seal and behind the glass to the inside at the top of the windscreen, then with gravity on the inside and no wind breeze to push it away comes down and pools in the bottom of the screen and eventually comes through at those corners because theyre the low point

drove me nuts but havent had any issue since doing the sealant around the entire screen.

look at this vid

 

[reklund5]

I had the same problem. I applied urethane between the glass and seal about 18" up each side and about 12" towards the center from the lower corners. Problem solved.

 

[Trail Teq]

I'm not an auto glazier but I have learnt a few tricks with 80 series windscreens in my time of owning them, having chased a leak or two myself. The below is advice from a glazier who used to work for Toyota in the 90's.

Double check what type of sealant they are using. It should be a self skinning flexible Mastic such as Bostik 5615.

The idea is that the glass should be able to move independently from the body. If a hardening mastic / sealant is used, what will happen is during normal driving the vibration will create cracks in the sealant which will cause seeping type leaks.

Another test you can do is to spray some soapy water around the windscreen seal and then go for a drive. If the mastic is really flogged out, the glass will move enough that bubbles will form/blow on the interior side of the windscreen seal. In that case, a non skinning mastic is probably used but is in need of replacement or replenishment. If no bubbles form, there is a good chance it is a hardening mastic with cracks in it that is letting water through.

 

[Kernal]

Take it to another shop (of your choice) to have it done correctly by the book (FSM), then try to get some money back from the first installer who obviously screwed it up. I would not try to fix it yourself as then all bets are off and you'll never get any reimbursement from the first shop.

I've mentioned this story before so FWIW.

Safe light messed up two installations (same vehicle), swore they followed the manual, sent their "best installer", blah, blah, blah, still leaked
so gently asked around to the local Toyota and Mercedes dealer service depts to see who they used to replace windshields on new vehicles. After that I got Safe Light to approve that independent shop to inspect the windshield for leaks and when they found that it indeed was leaking they approved a new windshield installed by that professional independent shop. No leaks since.

 

[BTLSHP]

Take it to another shop (of your choice) to have it done correctly by the book (FSM), then try to get some money back from the first installer who obviously screwed it up. I would not try to fix it yourself as then all bets are off and you'll never get any reimbursement from the first shop.

I've mentioned this story before so FWIW.

Safe light messed up two installations (same vehicle), swore they followed the manual, sent their "best installer", blah, blah, blah, still leaked
so gently asked around to the local Toyota and Mercedes dealer service depts to see who they used to replace windshields on new vehicles. After that I got Safe Light to approve that independent shop to inspect the windshield for leaks and when they found that it indeed was leaking they approved a new windshield installed by that professional independent shop. No leaks since.

I guess I am less about recovering any money at this point than I am about resolving the leaks. So, I am torn between DIY an a competent glass guy. I just took a thin plastic body tool and was able to run it easily up and down between the glass and the windscreen to a depth of 3/8"-1/2". So, if they used ay sealant at all it must be near the age of the glass. The tool did not move freely, but the resistance was only that of the rubber and glass.

This then leaves me with a separate sunroof issue ..... I am going to clean the drains and look at the bicycle tube trick. The plastic cable covers look almost new.

 

[jonheld]

This then leaves me with a separate sunroof issue ..... I am going to clean the drains and look at the bicycle tube trick. The plastic cable covers look almost new.

Have a look at this thread:

Sunroof front and rear drains clear but...

I've cleared the drains on the front and rear corners of my sunroof. But I'm still getting wet seat belts. Any ideas or advice?

forum.ih8mud.com

 

[BTLSHP]

Have a look at this thread:

Sunroof front and rear drains clear but...

I've cleared the drains on the front and rear corners of my sunroof. But I'm still getting wet seat belts. Any ideas or advice?

forum.ih8mud.com

This is great! And I have the poultry twine!

 

[jpoole]

Wanted to add to the DIY chorus here. I've also had luck adding sealant between glass/seal and seal/body on my 80 and on other vehicles. My process looks similar to the screenshot for the youtube video above where I use a plastic trim tool in front of the tip of the sealant applicator to help avoid popping the applicator tip off.

A big part of this process for me is cleaning. Before applying the sealant I physically clean the crud and old sealant out with a variety of tools and then I follow that with lots of wiping with various cloths soaked in denatured alcohol run through the seam to be sealed until they come out of the track fairly clean. After install of the sealant I also have to clean/wipe but I'm careful to not squeeze the sealant out too much but instead try to get it to the seals desired resting position with all external residue removed. Tape can make that easier but I typically don't use tape and am just careful with how much sealant goes on and how I wipe (not smear) it off.

I just did this with the rear hatch window on my 80 a few weeks ago that is running og glass/seal and is surprisingly still pliant and in decent shape though the og sealant had delaminated from the glass. I also had to remove the gasket that goes between the body and the gate/hatch and clean it then add a little sealant across the top edge to help water not get between the seal and the the body where it pools along the lower edge and promotes rust near the tailgate hinge area, in the pinched edges behind the seal.

Having good sealant on hand and knowing how to apply it makes it much easier/faster to address these little leaks when they show up vs. trying to find a shop that will do the same work correctly. I've shown them the FSM, talked it through with all techs involved and then watched them not properly seal my 80s windshield. When they get into the install zone with the pressure of sealant spreading out on so many surfaces it seems like muscle memory wins out and most installers can't slow down and properly apply sealant inside/outside of the seal

 

[Marvelicious]

Hopefully @BTLSHP doesn't mind me barging in with a related question... Does anyone know of a good source for glass at this point? I don't want an install, just glass to DIY.

I've done windshields before, but it's been years and the sources aren't the same anymore. Most importantly, I'm capable of following the manual. Over the winter my windshield got blasted by a part off a passing 737 (okay it was probably a rock) and I need a new one. I know OEM doesn't seem to be available, but everything I find via google just wants to arrange an appointment with an installer.

 

[BTLSHP]

Jon. thanks! Right now what I have is new molding and new glass. The truck is sitting in my garage as we are in the midst of several days of rain. So, I think I am looking for a primerless sealant after a good degreasing withe natured alcohol. I will probably look to 3M or Sikaflex - names I recognize.

Marvelicious - the new glass is one I do not recognize:

TriVal - DOT 563 AS1 M348 23 FW00 62

I hope it helps. The old glass was Fuyao a Chinese firm operating with a US plant.

 

[baltistyle]

Did they charge you $900 just to remove and reinstall the windshield? Did this include a new fit kit? When I had a Mercedes windshield removed and reinstall due to some separation of the adhesive, they removed and reinstalled it for 250 bucks at a Mercedes authorized body shop. This shop also did a brand new Lexus windshield on my LX470 and the install was minimal compared to the cost of the new windshield and the fit kit… point being as you might be able to find someone of high-quality to remove and reinstall the windshield for not much money.

 

[Malleus]

I assume this is going to Colorado, where it snows and that snow melts. You really do not want to fix this temporarily, IMHO.

The OEM gasket has a sealant applied to the gaps where it meets the glass and body:

The reason I bring this up is that any applied sealant must be compatible with what Toyota's vendor has applied to the gasket. If it isn't, it'll leak, no matter how much you put in there.

The OEM sealant specified in the patent is NLA. The closest product on the market is Dupont Betaseal U418:

I know you don't want to hear this, but the correct solution is to remove the glass, clean off all the sealant on it, and the body, and install a new gasket. You can do it yourself in the garage. A helper is nice, but, in a pinch, it can be done solo. You will need a pair of suction cups. You can "rent" them for free at an auto parts store.

 

[Malleus]

You absolutely must follow the service manual instructions, which, BTW, are also in the patent. Here's what the process looks like:

Note the string in place, prior to anything being done.
EDIT: I just read the manual: the instructions do require sealant in the glass - to - gasket joint, prior to assembly. But there isn't much room in there, so resist the urge to be generous. A thin, continous, bead on the bottom of the channel is all that's needed.

This sealant is for the gasket - to - body joint:

Drop the glass/gasket assembly in place:

Pull the string around the perimeter and you're done.

 

[BTLSHP]

I assume this is going to Colorado, where it slows and that snow melts. You really do not want to fix this temporarily, IMHO.

The OEM gasket has a sealant applied to the gaps where it meets the glass and body:
View attachment 3906039
The reason I bring this up is that any applied sealant must be compatible with what Toyota's vendor has applied to the gasket. If it isn't, it'll leak, no matter how much you put in there.

The OEM sealant specified in the patent is NLA. The closest product on the market is Dupont Betaseal U418:
View attachment 3906042

I know you don't want to hear this, but the correct solution is to remove the glass, clean off all the sealant on it, and the body, and install a new gasket. You can do it yourself in the garage. A helper is nice, but, in a pinch, it can be done solo. You will need a pair of suction cups. You can "rent" them for free at an auto parts store.

Stupid question, how many tubes of Betaseal will I need? I am guessing two. Looking at your diagrams am I correct in assuming the sealant is designated by the letter "S" in fig 2 & 3?

The bit of good news is if I act promptly the owner (my father) will not notice as he is in rehab after a hip replacement.....

 

[Malleus]

A moving blanket, or something similar, is very helpful for protecting the hood paint.

I didn't show the photos, but the problem child shown had a case of surface rust that I had to remove and clean with Ospho and prime, prior to glass installation. This is the only time you're going to have this out, so if there's any bodywork that doesn't look like it just rolled onto the assembly line, fix it now.

 

[Malleus]

Stupid question, how many tubes of Betaseal will I need? I am guessing two. Looking at your diagrams am I correct in assuming the sealant is designated by the letter "S" in fig 2 & 3?

The bit of good news is if I act promptly the owner (my father) will not notice as he is in rehab after a hip replacement.....

Less than one tube. Yes "S" is the sealant, but use the manual, not the patent. I included that because the illustrations are better.

The Beataseal does not require primer. The OEM urethane did.

 

[BILT4ME]

A moving blanket, or something similar, is very helpful for protecting the hood paint.

I didn't show the photos, but the problem child shown had a case of surface rust that I had to remove and clean with Ospho and prime, prior to glass installation. This is the only time you're going to have this out, so if there's any bodywork that doesn't look like it just rolled onto the assembly line, fix it now.

This is what I'm up against right now.

It's going to cost me about $2500 to have a body shop pull the windshield, do metal repairs, and install a new windshield with me supplying the gasket and any other parts and me pulling the headliner and interior trim prior to dropping off. They claim it will take about 10 days for the work.

The PO had the windshield replaced a couple times and the installers cut the paint all the way around the windshield causing the rust I have now. They also didn't seal it properly, as I have leaks in the bottom corners. Every time it rains or k go through a carwash, I have a huge leak at the upper left corner of the windshield and when I turn left hard, it runs right into my crotch.

I have gone to 3 different glass shops and they all refuse to touch my truck because I'm going to hold their feet to the fire about installing it properly.

Most glass shops get snooty with me and tell me they've been doing this for 20 years and know how to do glass. Then I remind them this is a 30 year old truck and was different even then on how it had to be installed.