Winch line - length question (1 Viewer)

[ChaseTruck]

Just curious - what's your philosophy:

Short length of rope on the drum + extension rope when needed, or drum filled to capacity?

I needed to cut the rope on my Ramsey winch after I noted two frayed spots, so I'm currently left with some 55 feet (instead of 85 or so). I'm pondering replacement options; the winch is a REP9.5E, which originally came with 95' of 5/16"cable. I'm sure 100' of 5/16" will fit; 100' of 3/8" fits but seems too much (but it was cheap on Amazon, got it to learn splicing rope...). I carry 30' of 3/8" line as an extension. Thoughts?

 

[george_tlc]

Really depends on the terrain you typically are in, i.e. how far away is your anchor/tree/etc and whether you travel with other vehicles.

The times I've had to winch I've needed all the line I have. 125' on my m12000 and 150' on my 8274. I have about 75' of 3/4" synthetic as my extension. Add snatch block, tree protector and a few d-rings and I can reach out a decent distance.

So, I'm in the "put as much line as possible onto the winch" camp...

cheers,
george.

 

[1911]

Really depends on the terrain you typically are in, i.e. how far away is your anchor/tree/etc and whether you travel with other vehicles.

This.

That said however, you get a lot more pulling power with fewer layers of rope on the drum; simple geometry. So I tend to be more in the camp of running my drum at less than full capacity, and carrying an extension when I think I might need it.

 

[ChaseTruck]

Really depends on the terrain you typically are in, i.e. how far away is your anchor/tree/etc and whether you travel with other vehicles.
...

Should have added that info - most of my winch pulls have been very short, get myself, or someone else, off a rock, or up a ledge. Terrain is desert, for the most part in a group with a few other vehicles. That would argue for the shorter rope on the drum. But I can also easily imagine situations where it's not easy to stop in a recovery to reset when the hook is against the fairlead.

 

[pb4ugo]

I run the proper diameter and the max line the winch is designed for. My 1st winch was a Warn m8000, I found myself a couple of times maxing out the 80ft that was on the drum. 1 time I needed more. I now run a 8274 with 150ft of cable. So far, I've not come up short, but I have been on the last layer. Cable length is one of my primary considerations, when I purchase winch. You'll never know how much you'll need when the time comes. I buy my replacement cable from a local wire rope supplier.

 

[cruiserpilot]

You said rope - meaning synthetic? If so, just keep the 55’ and get an extension. The true beauty
of synthetic is light weight and ease of use. So I’d keep 100’ piece nicely protected in a canvas
bag until needed. If you review you had a couple of frayed spots, probably from long pulls over rough
terrain/ground. I live in granite country, so I use wire rope. I also carry two long 150’ loops for back up.
FYI, I carried 600’ back up on an ATV trip, it was nice synthetic rope. So easy to deal with.
If you’re gonna carry the weight make it good snatch blocks.

 

[ChaseTruck]

Yes, synthetic winch line. I replaced the original wire rope some 4 years ago when I managed to get some kinks in it. Never really had any issues with wire, but quickly came to prefer the synthetic line.
I've started to use the leftover pieces from the cuts to learn how to make splices and knots, how to make a soft shackle, and I also now have a new hook strap.

 

[Ted44]

Your winch is at full pulling capacity when it is down to the last layer on the drum. With a synthetic line (my preference), your minimum dead wraps should be 10 (depending on how your line is attached to the drum), which typically gives about half a drum of full pulling capacity. With each layer of line on the drum you lose 6 percent of your winch's strength. It's good practice to start every pull at maximum pulling capacity, meaning all the line is unspooled except for the last ten wraps when the pull begins. This makes long winch lines a PITA, in my opinion, because of all the unspooling. It is much easier to add extensions if needed. OTOH, if you will use a recovery pulley a lot, then more winch line can be very handy, even though unspooling is a pain.

Another problem with a long line is an off angle pull. The line will not be wrapping itself evenly on the drum. It will be stacking on the side of the pull. This causes two problems: winch strength is lost quickly as the layers build in a small area and if the line stacks to far it begins bind against the stays and will damage the line and the winch. A long line may fit on the drum when it is wrapped neatly, but can be a problem when it is not. Since you will have to stop and re-rig to avoid binding, it's just as easy to use extensions.

Yet another issue is line rating. A 1/2" line is much stronger than a 3/8" line. You will not fit as much 1/2" on a drum as 3/8".

There is a lot to consider and this post barely scratches the surface.

 

[ChaseTruck]

I'm aware of the advantage of winching from fewer layers on the drum.

I use a 4-wrap line lock on the drum of that winch; learned that from a post by @Beowulf many years ago; maybe I should do a 6-wrap like I did on the HF winch on the '93.

I tried fitting the 100' 3/8" line on the drum - looks nice when wrapped neatly in the driveway, but it won't work out there; any angled pull, and it'll be up against the side and the connecting rods in no time. I'll probably use that as an extension; 3/8 aluminum fid coming in on Friday, hope this is better that the pencil wrapped in masking tape that I've been using for practice. By the way, I found electrical tape is no good to attach a line to a fid - too grippy.

Line strength is not so much of a concern - the rating of a decent 5/16" synthetic line will exceed the power of the winch on the first layer. I have an inquiry in to the folks that make the 'spider silk' lines for a 100' line - these folks cater to rock crawling buggies that only need 50'...

And by the way, I'm not sure how you could cut that Amsteel/Dyneema/whatever stuff out on the trail if one needed to make a splice - I'm having the hardest time with scissors. In the comfort of my garage, I'm using masking tape and a hot knife. Here are my tries at a soft shackle, and a hook strap:

...and before anyone gets nervous (this is Mud, after all...), I have several regular D-ring shackles in the truck, as well as a soft shackle from 1/2" line made by the professionals @ SoutheastOverland.

 

[woodsman 44]

go 80ft or buy an 8274..lol

Learn to tie the button knot for a soft shackle, they look impossible at first but stay the course and you will get it.

This is a good vid for button knot...



check out this vid, easy way to splice dyneema winch rope...

 

[ChaseTruck]

The 8274 is on the FJ40... that one has 3/8" synthetic line on it, but I don't remember how much.

The knot in my practice shackle is, according to Yachting Monthly ), a diamond knot.


I'll try the one you've linked, thanks.

 

[ChaseTruck]

...
I have an inquiry in to the folks that make the 'spider silk' lines for a 100' line - these folks cater to rock crawling buggies that only need 50'...

... and that was unfortunately quite unproductive

 

[woody]

My winches all carry 75-80% of their max, and I carry sufficient extensions to cover additional distance.

I'm lazy, and long pulls will likely overload one side of the drum. Broken drums suck.

 

[ChaseTruck]

Thanks everyone for the input. I'll leave the 55' that's on the drum for now, and carry 100' of 3/8" as extension.

 

[cruiserpilot]

So much info on one page! I see a splice with two threads back through then,
one then down the center. I saw a video where a guy recommended 4 times through.
I just this year did several splices and so far the looped ends have all held fine under load.
I don’t mind pulling all the rope if I have to get it to the bottom row on the drum. In
my experience I’ve really noticed the difference.

 

[ChaseTruck]

FYI, I checked today, the soft shackle I've got from Southeast Overland uses the diamond knot method.

 

[woodsman 44]

FYI, I checked today, the soft shackle I've got from Southeast Overland uses the diamond knot method.

yes, but the button knot is superior to the diamond knot, almost double the strength!

Other manufactures use the button knot because of this.....

 

[ChaseTruck]

I've gotten the button knob to work, even once from memory. I'm still struggling to get both legs of the shackle to be the same length. I have some more practice rope, but I'll be wearing gloves from now on to work with this stuff; enough blue dye on my hands.