Why We Wrench on our Own Junk (1 Viewer)

[pappy]

A coworker had a problem with his Subaru last week and took Friday off to deal with the issues. His car would not pass smog, so he took the car to the dealer. You all see where this is going, right? Car is a 2000.

The dealer called him up, and said it would cost $1200 fix the smog issues, plus it needed another $1200 in additional work. His response was sort of appropriate, and it was "time out."

Cutting to the chase, to pass smog it needed two OX sensors and a cat, which is where the $1200 came from. I look at him dumb-founded, and said the OX sensors are at worst $100 each. Then he says the cat was a dealer only item ... at which point I told him a muffler shop could have cut out the offending part and welded in a new unit for a third of what the dealer charged. His response, "ya but how long would it have taken?" I told him I had a complete exhaust system built from the header to the tail pipe for about $400 and that included a new muffler and a new cat, and it was done in 2 hours as I waited.

My guess. The OX sensors would have solved the problem all by themselves. Here is what I find frustrating. This guy is handy ... with construction tools, but he is a dimwit with wrenches. He is the second guy I know that can build a house from scratch but can't hardly change his own oil.

Also, awhile back he made a comment that his check engine light was on. I told him then to suspect the OX sensors, to take the car to AutoZone, and they would dx the problem for him for nothing. I guess that little light on the dash might have caused him to fail smog, uh?

Wonder what Toyota would charge me to change the $6 rear output seal on the 4Runner?

 

[Rudical]

Know what you mean. My brother was quoted around 400 for an altenator in a montero. I swaped It out for about 80 bucks total.

 

[Ruadhrigh]

I work with a guy that takes his car back to the dealer for a $80 oil change. He says he likes the courtesy car.

 

[marcfj60]

....I guess that little light on the dash might have caused him to fail smog, uh?

If the check engine light is on in your OBDII car, it will fail the emissions test. My '98 Accord has been having intermittent check engine light due to an O2 sensor (that's what my cheap scan tool is telling me - Code P042 - Left Bank Catalyst Threshold) When it's time for an emissions test, I delete the codes and go through a few drive cycles to reset all the readiness codes. Then I hope I don't get a little blip in the O2 sensor system before I get the test done. I'm too cheap to pay the $120 that Honda wants for those sensors. Plus, there are 2 and genearlly accepted practice is to replace both at the same time.

 

[AACruiser]

Aside from the cost, a major reason that I go to great effort to do my own work is because I have low confidence in the skills of many professional mechanics. I find that they are too likely to perform the work improperly or damage something else.

Andy

 

[Beowulf]

I'm too cheap to pay the $120 that Honda wants for those sensors.

I believe you will get a significant improvement in fuel mileage by replacing bad O2 sensors with new ones. Something like 15% better mileage on the 80s is what the guys are finding.

-Mike-

 

[pappy]

I'm too cheap to pay the $120 that Honda wants for those sensors.

Marc,

Go to http://oxygensensors.com/. They sell Denso Ox sensors, but not for all applications.

 

[Rudical]

Aside from the cost, a major reason that I go to great effort to do my own work is because I have low confidence in the skills of many professional mechanics. I find that they are too likely to perform the work improperly or damage something else.

Andy

Have you ever seen a "professional" mechanic adjust brakes by jacking up the truck, put it in drive and tighten the brakes until the wheel stops and he's done?

 

[marcfj60]

Marc,

Go to http://oxygensensors.com/. They sell Denso Ox sensors, but not for all applications.

Maybe I could bypass a few of the middlemen in the Honda Parts Network and get them for only 2X their actual cost instead of 5X.

 

[marcfj60]

I believe you will get a significant improvement in fuel mileage by replacing bad O2 sensors with new ones. Something like 15% better mileage on the 80s is what the guys are finding.

-Mike-

I get the same fuel economy now that I got 8 years ago when I bought it with 24K miles on it (120K now). That's about 26 in the city and 30 HWY.

 

[Daisy 53]

People are lazy these days, they will spend mucho bucks to avoid getting dirty. Guess that the plus side to this is that mechanics stay employed!
Daisy

 

[Rudical]

People are lazy these days, they will spend mucho bucks to avoid getting dirty. Guess that the plus side to this is that mechanics stay employed!
Daisy

True, but the down side is why some mechanics should not be employed. After I saw the brake jobs being done I said my prayers every time i started the work truck. I also had a work truck that went through three transmissons in six months (I guess I forgot how to drive an automatic?) yes we stopped buisiness with them. They tried to blame me. Even mechanics can be lazy. I understand the higher cost when you pay someone to do something you don't know how to do, but paying someone to do an over priced job without it being done right, is obsurd.

Rudy

 

[alia176]

Maybe I could bypass a few of the middlemen in the Honda Parts Network and get them for only 2X their actual cost instead of 5X.

Marc,

Get an Universal Bosch O2 sensor, do a little cut/splicing into the oem harness and get away with spending around $60 or less. Found in most auto parts store. Just make sure to match correct # of wires, color isn't important.

 

[Daisy 53]

Rudy,
I agree with your post, there are lots of shoddy workmen out there. The key is to find a good one for those jobs that are "over your head". Im all for jumping into a big job, as long as i have some backup. When i say backup, i mean you all!
Daisy

 

[firemedicpq1]

Interesting thread! I was one of those guys you speak of.... I used to work on my vehicles in HS and college - mostly financial back then. The cars and trucks were much simpler back then as well. As cars got more complicated, I took them to the shop more often and paid out the nose. As my youngest son became interested in wrenching, he kind of dragged me back into the fold. He was a great inspiration and I love the time we spend together under the truck. I am learning as I go, but I have a lot to learn.

 

[pappy]

What seems to have happened is back in the <60's cars were easy. During the 70's and 80's things got complicated with manufactures trying to meet emission standards and bolting on bandages to make tailpipes cleaner. With advancements in EFI and other engine technology, I think engines have actually gotten simpler to work on. More electrical, but the computer tells you what's wrong. I'm not saying they are easier than they were in the 60's. In some cases the technology is very complicated (variable cam timing, engine assembly, etc), but over all working on them, and dx problems, has gotten easier.

Shoot, remember when a tune-up was really a tune-up (plugs, points, condenser, setting dwell, setting timing, adjusting the carb, etc)? Now you drop in a set of plugs and call it a day. And you only have to do that every 60K. You spend more time changing the oil.

 

[marcfj60]

During the 70's and 80's things got complicated with manufactures trying to meet emission standards and bolting on bandages to make tailpipes cleaner.

You don't have to convince me of that fact. If anyone wants to see what vehicles looked like at the pinnacle of highly complicated band-aids to try to deal with emissions laws, just lift the hood of an '87 FJ60. I like to refer to it as the 'Bag-o-Snakes'. If I didn't have my dad's 40 years of mechanic experience, there's no way I'd be able to keep it running well.

 

[evanz80]

You don't have to convince me of that fact. If anyone wants to see what vehicles looked like at the pinnacle of highly complicated band-aids to try to deal with emissions laws, just lift the hood of an '87 FJ60. I like to refer to it as the 'Bag-o-Snakes'.

Good one Marc! "Bag-o-Snakes"! Our '87 FJ60 had at least 12 miles of vacuum hose under the hood. I can totally relate to that comment. I would have a very hard time ever going back to a carburetor - especially one that has been "bandaged" to meet emissions like that one.

 

[Ruadhrigh]

I was changing the oil on Molly's truck this afternoon. The truck is so damn low to the ground. I was cursing the whole time and swore the next time I would take it somewhere. Afterwards my pops calls and tells me a little story:


His neighbor had gone for an oil change. Tech put the drain plug back on using an impact, and of course stripped the pan. The tech wrapped the threads of the drain plug with Teflon tape The neighbor made it two block before all oil was gone.

 

[Beowulf]

The truck is so damn low to the ground.

Two words. Ramps.

About a year ago, Connie took her car to Zip Lube. About a week later she noticed a fairly large oil spot on the garage floor. I got under and found the oil filter was completely loose. Snugged it up and stopped the leak but that could have been a very expensive engine replacement and I don't know who would have been paying for it but Zip Lube won't see any more of her business from now on.

-Mike-