Thanks. And then you add in rust (esp Northerners)...how much does dealer charge to replaces the pumps, globe, etc..
Why LC more expensive than LX? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter studio19atx
- Start date
This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate
links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.
Thanks. And then you add in rust (esp Northerners)...how much does dealer charge to replaces the pumps, globe, etc..
It comes down to the Toyota tax, esp. in states like Colorado. People will pay more for an LC because it is an LC. I think it is as simple as that. The LC has a storied history and a ton of heritage, the LX not so much. Plus LC buyers want people to know it's a LC, most folks don't know the LX is tarted up LC.
So LCs are totally immune to rust and rust related issues?
Where are the masses of rusted out AHC systems? You don't like AHC, we get it.
Last edited:
hoser
SILVER Star
No, they aren’t. Leases aren’t sales, they are long term rentals.
Are you sure? It's still a sale to the leasing company. They buy it, they own it. It has a sales price and it has a title. That all seems like a sale to me, but I'm just a dumb okie.
I'm pretty sure that's not accurate. Anything that gets a vehicle off floor plan and rolling on the street is a sale to the dealer. They had the unit, now they don't. If that weren't true brands like Mercedes and BMW would never sell a vehicle since the majority of those transactions are leases.
I will throw this in:
- Cost of the AHC common replacement parts available online:
Front (original Toyota / Lexus) $ 200.00 per piece
Rear $50.00 per piece
AHC Fluid $23.00 per liter bottle (need 4-5 to flush)
Total about $650.00 plus labor (I do my own work)
Outside of bleeding the system after strut replacement which is just like doing a brake bleeding job it is just a few bolts and nuts to do.
My 2011 has 141k miles on and only needs a flush at this point.
The cost to replace traditional suspension components on an LC after 150-200K would be similar or a lot more if you go with aftermarket options... I honestly don't get the dislike of AHC and noticed it is mostly bashed by the LC owners who don't even have AHC on their trucks.
When it comes to rust issues nobody is immuned from it especially in rust belt areas... and as far as I heard the only true issues came from the lift sensors (easy to replace) on really rusted trucks that by now are 10-12 years old
- Cost of the AHC common replacement parts available online:
Front (original Toyota / Lexus) $ 200.00 per piece
Rear $50.00 per piece
AHC Fluid $23.00 per liter bottle (need 4-5 to flush)
Total about $650.00 plus labor (I do my own work)
Outside of bleeding the system after strut replacement which is just like doing a brake bleeding job it is just a few bolts and nuts to do.
My 2011 has 141k miles on and only needs a flush at this point.
The cost to replace traditional suspension components on an LC after 150-200K would be similar or a lot more if you go with aftermarket options... I honestly don't get the dislike of AHC and noticed it is mostly bashed by the LC owners who don't even have AHC on their trucks.
When it comes to rust issues nobody is immuned from it especially in rust belt areas... and as far as I heard the only true issues came from the lift sensors (easy to replace) on really rusted trucks that by now are 10-12 years old
What LC suspension are needing to be replaced at 200k+??? It has just the traditional run-of-the-mill factory shocks that wear out...which is the case on ALL cars, including LX570.
The springs don’t need replacement. Bushings may take a long time...but these last two are on AHC LX too.
So, after 200k or more miles, LC suspension maintenance is much cheaper because there is less to maintain and/or replace.
I am only talking stock vs. stock. I don't dislike AHC...i think that it is a great system. BUT, some of the claims here about its non-existent cost of maintenance or superior off-road capability over LC's KDSS are just stretching a bit.
Last edited:
Those MB cars in the videos haven’t existed since the early to mid 1990’s and I don’t think MB has used hydraulic since and switched to air for their adjustable/leveling suspensions. MB build quality didn’t really start to go down until they started producing lower end price point cars And really only in those lower end units. I’ve had 2 e class, an SL and a G over the last 20 years and all have bomb been bomb proof, at least as stout as my cruiser.
last summer I backed into our 2004 e with my 201LX (The back up camera blind spot), on the LX crumpled and cracked the bumper, broke the under mounts, cracked the tail light, only scratched the paint on the MB...
Correct. These are all early versions of hydro-pneumatic suspension. I was simply trying to illustrate some of the long term issues LX owners may encounter and perhaps support the importance of preventative maintenance of the system. I think this guy has made a living servicing these systems and I find it all very interesting. Especially when it comes to accumulators and making sure we don't let them fall apart. The material and build quality of the Toyota globes are probably far superior (30 year later) and will last longer, but surely they are not going to last forever. I don't believe Lexus maintenance schedules ever recommend replacing accumulators\globes. Perhaps it's like the transmission flushes. If it lasts 100K...they really don't care after that.
If I owned an LX, I’d put regular gas in the tank. It’s the same engine as the LC with perhaps a very slightly different tune. I’m sure it has knock sensors.
What's with the slam comments? That's unnecessary hyperbole. I try to point out when it's moving to passengers and they can't even feel it when I tell them to watch for it.
bloc
SILVER Star
My hypothetical made no mention of aftermarket suspensions. It asked about the base systems themselves, and the resulting difficulties in the unlikely event of a total failure.
I'm not sure it offers "more". As posted in this thread the only side-by-side was 4 points of difference in the mid 500s. If this is on a 20* ramp that is about a half inch of difference in ramp-travel for a 112" wheel base. Meaning.. absolutely not a clear winner. Then again, Edmunds did it at some point and got 647.. though they apparently haven't tested an LX570.
Plus, the 4-wheeler writeup isn't available now. I don't see this getting settled until someone figures out how edmunds got that 647, and preferably tests side-by-side stock LC and LX and documents it.
My gut is that they will have near-identical scores, when you consider how AHC and KDSS operate and the physical limitations of our suspension.
That said, my understanding of similar performance despite a traditional bar is AHC allows the use of a much softer bar and coil spring because it can actively provide or remove spring pressure on each corner as it is needed. So say you drive one front tire up onto an obstacle.. the brain sees this single wheel go up and can reduce spring pressure, allowing articulation. But, if you are on the road, vehicle speed up, no brakes, and it senses both right tires compress (as in a left turn), it can send extra spring pressure to both wheels on that side to keep the vehicle level during cornering. Same thing for both front tires when you hit the brakes. It is an actual "active" suspension thinking its way through things and responding to input.. Which I gather is the main reason Teckis is such an advocate.
All of this capability comes with complexity though, and some of us prefer less complexity even if it's reliable.
Are you sure about "highest state"? Older LX570 models have very similar lower bumper designs to LC, so when they are in High mode, suspension sitting significantly higher than a LC, they should have improved approach/breakover/departure angles compared to that stock LC. 16+ may have made the bumper so much longer that it negates the benefit of High, I'm not sure.
Plus, as Teckis points out a lot.. if you need more clearance you can just perform a sensor lift.. to a point anyway. Eventually you'll run out of down travel.
Which is a real performance benefit of aftermarket suspension. Up travel won't change with the bump-stops being the same. But a true lift with shocks that have a longer extended length allows more down travel, at least until the point that you start worrying about CV angles. IIRC King advertises 25% more travel in the front. As long as spring rates are appropriate this can help keep wheels on the ground when a vehicle is really flexed up, helping with traction and stability. If it's a cruiser with KDSS, this is further enhanced with disconnecting swaybars.. while maintaining a stiff bar for your time on the road.
I'm pretty sure this is incorrect. Early 200 KDSS had an electronic valve on the KDSS valve block, but no one seems to know what it was for. Later models like my 13 don't have the valve at all. As a result there is no avenue for the truck to tell the bars to relax below 40.
Not that I'd necessarily want my bars relaxed below 40..
The increased compliance off-road over traditional bars comes from the fact that you drive progressively over obstacles like rocks or bumps. One front tire hits it first, which to the suspension looks just like articulation.. exactly what KDSS hydraulically "disconnects" the bars for in real time.
The argument between the LX and LC and their respective suspensions stems from ignorance about both systems. There's a lot good information in this forum but sometimes people do write inaccurate things and they get repeated over time.
Things like that KDSS disconnects the sway bar or the speed at which AHC lowers or that LX shocks are regular and wear the same as LC shocks or inflated RTI numbers for either truck are examples. The rust issue stems from one guy in this forum having to replace a rusted hydraulic line from the AHC system, one guy so far, but now this is a problem
I'd advice that people read the published documents by Toyota and Lexus about both systems respectively before adding to the misinformation.
Things like that KDSS disconnects the sway bar or the speed at which AHC lowers or that LX shocks are regular and wear the same as LC shocks or inflated RTI numbers for either truck are examples. The rust issue stems from one guy in this forum having to replace a rusted hydraulic line from the AHC system, one guy so far, but now this is a problem
I'd advice that people read the published documents by Toyota and Lexus about both systems respectively before adding to the misinformation.
bloc
SILVER Star
So you are implying KDSS doesn't disconnect the swaybars?
Just wanted to add something that I came across a couple of years ago with reference to RTI for the vehicles when stock. As many have mentioned the articulation as measured by this type of test has the vehicles very close in "score", see below from Dan Edmunds, from Edmunds testing, on instagram.
- Thread starter
- #78
This is good to know.
- Thread starter
- #79
What does 645 and 647 mean? What is the unit of that measure?
Hell, the extra 2 were probably just from the extra cush the non-low-profile tires gave it hahaha
