Who cares about looks! Is there a diesel option??

[Sniperx]

BDY: Here in JP they do have delivery truck (UPS style vans) that are diesel hybrids.

BDY, I'm with you on a lot of this, but for possibly different reasons. I'm not all about saving the earth and all that crap. I don't want my short and curlies tugged on by some money grubbing arabs. US either needs to occupy the sandbox and lay claim to all it holds or find another source of power. H-E technology is not the answer though. Batteries alone say it all. The real potential is in bio-diesel. This can be made from waste, seconds, or refined for the purpose, but it really is the key to long term.

Personally, I am converting my 1hz to WVO and am working on a plan to hydro-power my house. Theres a year round river running near my property and I have 2 ideas for a totally revolutionary water based turbine generator. All that is left is to drill and tap the volcanic nature of Japan, pump in hot water, seperate and compress the flammable gasses, and the house would be totally self reliant. Pretty sure I'm not going to be drilling for hot springs any time soon, I'll probably have to 100-200m down to get it anyway.

 

[Dougal]

^^^ THATS the BEST you could do?

Go back to your hugbox.

In response to vehicles that have no parts in common with mine. Yes.
You see not having the airbags deploy after I drive into a 2 foot ditch (story from your link) isn't a problem I expect to have. Same with the check engine light and vacuum leaks on an LR3.

I know all the limitations and weak points of my vehicle and am more than happy to talk about them.
Axles would be #1.

 

[Sniperx]

So wait a sec....

You're allowed to apply a blanket statement to all vehicles, but I'm not?

Doucheal.....go back to your hugbox.

 

[Dougal]

So wait a sec....

You're allowed to apply a blanket statement to all vehicles, but I'm not?

Doucheal.....go back to your hugbox.

All vehicles?

Nope, just the mitsubishi 2.5 and 2.8 diesels.

 

[hedydd]

Going through your links from the top, they didn't prove what you wanted them to.

Your links proved:

Below is a picture of a fat torque curve and a flat torque curve. Shown in blue is the resulting power curve.
As you can see the fat torque curve gives higher average power than a flat torque curve does.
Maybe you can guess which one is the diesel. But probably not.

Your original premise that modern diesels are terribly complicated and won't last isn't true at all.

That is a nice typical torque curve for a modern diesel with a high torque reserve resulting in an engine which produces almost constant power over a broad rev range as the revs drop from rated speed. This gives tremendous lugging ability and accelleration low down the rev range. Modern diesel pull like a train from near idle speed which make them very different to drive compared to petrol engines. You won't get your Toyota 4.7 V8 petrol to produce 650Nm of torque at 1800 revs but you will from the 4.5 V8 diesel with a potential for easy upgrading to at least 750Nm by chipping if someone is desperate for more.

 

[hedydd]

My friend has a Mitsubishi 2.5 which has been driven hard and towed huge loads on a regular basis, I mean 3.5 to 4 ton pieces of equipment way beyond what is recomended or indeed legal and in hilly Wales. It has not missed a beat in 165,000 miles although the whole thing is now getting to feel tired. The chassis needed plating last year and it has had its first new clutch this year. Oddly his year old Nissan pick-up has already needed a new clutch at 12,000 miles.
Yes the 2.5 was more troublesome than the 2.8 but if the timing belt on the 2.5 was changed every 50,000 miles and it was not allowed to overheat due to lack of water or blocked radiator etc then the 2.5 was a good engine. I had an older leaf sprung rear end Shogun/Pajero myself and it was totally reliable over 80,000 miles.

 

[tntoyota]

EPA on that POS Lx570 is 13-17.........c/d



so that means 4mpg trail riding and offroading

 

[bulldog-yota]

BDY: Here in JP they do have delivery truck (UPS style vans) that are diesel hybrids.

BDY, I'm with you on a lot of this, but for possibly different reasons. I'm not all about saving the earth and all that crap. I don't want my short and curlies tugged on by some money grubbing arabs. US either needs to occupy the sandbox and lay claim to all it holds or find another source of power. H-E technology is not the answer though. Batteries alone say it all. The real potential is in bio-diesel. This can be made from waste, seconds, or refined for the purpose, but it really is the key to long term.

Personally, I am converting my 1hz to WVO and am working on a plan to hydro-power my house. Theres a year round river running near my property and I have 2 ideas for a totally revolutionary water based turbine generator. All that is left is to drill and tap the volcanic nature of Japan, pump in hot water, seperate and compress the flammable gasses, and the house would be totally self reliant. Pretty sure I'm not going to be drilling for hot springs any time soon, I'll probably have to 100-200m down to get it anyway.

Yep, every country has its unique demographic that determines it energy sources adn needs. To be able to address it multiple technologies need to be applied, whcih will produce it's own variants to suite local needs. Each will have it's pros and cons as well. Most people understand this full well, unfortuntely we have an ignorant idiot that don't.

I'm aware of hybrid large commercial vehicles, for very specifc workloads. I was more refering to a consumer general purposes havey vehicle like the LC when I said current hybrid technology wouldn't make sense. ANd yes batteries are the biggest issue, mostly due to cost, as lithium technology is very expensive on large scale (reason why current battery technology in vehicles have been lagging 10+years behind the lates and best). TIme will tell what happens in this space.

Will be interesting to see how your projects turn out. Enjoy!!

 

[tntoyota]

I'm not all about saving the earth and all that ****. I don't want my short and curlies tugged on by some money grubbing arabs.

I CAN tell you who makes the MOST on oil IF you care to know....


(crooked smile)


and it aint the arabs!!


believe what they tell you all you want but taint true!


WARNING!!

The following is NOT front page news or has NOTHING to do with Britney Spears!!!


WARNING!!!

Yep, every country has its unique demographic that determines it energy sources


Most people understand this full well, unfortuntely we have an ignorant idiot that don't.

WARNING!!! Reality at your own risk!!


http://www.bushwatch.com/bushmoney.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlyle_Group
http://www.minesandcommunities.org/Mineral/cement03.htm
http://www.warriorsfortruth.com/bush-oil.html
http://money.cnn.com/2003/03/25/news/companies/war_contracts/
http://www.buzzflash.com/contributors/03/11/con03330.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halliburton
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zapata_Corporation
http://www.airamerica.com/node/4985


whats a quarter? ;p 1.....2.....3.....?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/04/27/AR2006042700534.html
http://www.lastchancedemocracycafe.com/?p=250


I don't think his math is right? I need a calculator!

http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/02/01/guess-who-made-1-252-a-second-every-second-last-year/





Dang I couldn't even find what I was looking for!


I'm going back to fantasy!!

 

[Dougal]

Yep, every country has its unique demographic that determines it energy sources adn needs. To be able to address it multiple technologies need to be applied, whcih will produce it's own variants to suite local needs. Each will have it's pros and cons as well.

Exactly.
The perfect demographic for vehicles with large petrol engines is an oil rich one.
You won't catch many oil sheiks driving a diesel.

Even bush wants his country to reduce dependence on (foreign) oil. The only way to do that is to cut consumption. Without diesel engines your only option is radical downsizing.

Most people understand this full well, unfortuntely we have an ignorant idiot that don't.

You elected him.

 

[bulldog-yota]

That is a nice typical torque curve for a modern diesel with a high torque reserve resulting in an engine which produces almost constant power over a broad rev range as the revs drop from rated speed. This gives tremendous lugging ability and accelleration low down the rev range. Modern diesel pull like a train from near idle speed which make them very different to drive compared to petrol engines. You won't get your Toyota 4.7 V8 petrol to produce 650Nm of torque at 1800 revs but you will from the 4.5 V8 diesel with a potential for easy upgrading to at least 750Nm by chipping if someone is desperate for more.

Be careful to use TQ curves from Dougal. He doesn't use data, but rather pulls stuff out of his ass to prove his opinions.

I actually used data for the currently available 4.2TD and 4.7 V8 (the US version with VVTi). Also note that the V8's figures is still the old SAE values, since the new SAE values will affect the TD as well. So apples to apples of what it would have looked like if the current 4.2TD would have been available in NA in the 100.

SInce the currently available 4.5TD figures are no different from he 4.2TD it woul make no sense to add them in. Also since the new 4.5TD is still only speculation and no TQ curve available it would not be fruitfull to add that and the 5.7 V8 in.

I think the bottom graphs with actual relevant data shows a very different picture than DOugal tried to point out. His usual way of pulling data out of his ass with no proofpoints, data or references. Then tries to compae apples and orange, misquotes people and tells halftruths.

Good thing I put him on my ignore list now, since he has provided no useful information.

 

[Dougal]

I actually used data for the currently available 4.2TD and 4.7 V8 (the US version with VVTi). Also note that the V8's figures is still the old SAE values, since the new SAE values will affect the TD as well. So apples to apples of what it would have looked like if the current 4.2TD would have been available in NA in the 100.

So you doctored the results to fit your predictions and didn't include power curves?
Genius.

The 4.5V8 in the 70 series does not have the same torque curve as the 1HD, it merely shares two data points (max torque and max power)

Here's a toyota 15BT, excellent example of a fat torque curve from a turbo diesel.

 

[Dougal]

I never changed my wording on the Keiyonn cars. I said most cars in Japan are turbo'd and there is a HUGE amount of these economy cars in the market. The SMART series is actually very small time here. Don't put words in my mouthh...especially when you try to quote me. Hey look...a turbo car just drove by...hey look its a petrol....hey look it has a turbo.

You are prone to exaggeration, we see it again.
No way are most (more than 50%) of the cars in japan turbocharged. Only a handful of turbo Kei class cars have been produced, most of them are NA in line with the power requirements of that tax bracket.

Did you assume the car that drove past was turbo because it whined like small 660cc engines do or because your xray glasses could see the turbo through the bonnet?

Look up the specs of the ones you see, you will most likely be surprised. Very few are turbocharged.

We used to get Kei class cars here, but they changed the frontal impact standards a few years back and kei class no longer meet them.

 

[bulldog-yota]

Be careful to use TQ curves from Dougal. He doesn't use data, but rather pulls stuff out of his ass to prove his opinions.

I actually used data for the currently available 4.2TD and 4.7 V8 (the US version with VVTi). Also note that the V8's figures is still the old SAE values, since the new SAE values will affect the TD as well. So apples to apples of what it would have looked like if the current 4.2TD would have been available in NA in the 100.

SInce the currently available 4.5TD figures are no different from he 4.2TD it woul make no sense to add them in. Also since the new 4.5TD is still only speculation and no TQ curve available it would not be fruitfull to add that and the 5.7 V8 in.

I think the bottom graphs with actual relevant data shows a very different picture than DOugal tried to point out. His usual way of pulling data out of his ass with no proofpoints, data or references. Then tries to compae apples and orange, misquotes people and tells halftruths.

Good thing I put him on my ignore list now, since he has provided no useful information.

Oops, made a mistake on the previous chart I put the 4Runner figures in. The Land Cruiser /LX470 actually made a bit more power.

Here is the composite graph that shows the TD4.2 vs the 4.7 V8. I also added the new 5.7 V8 with the new SAE specs, which actually derated all Toyota engines quite abit. WIll be interesting to see the 4.5TD new SAE specs if and when it comes to the US.
Click on link

I used the 4.2 TD data from this post (looks legit enough as it matches the Oz spec for the 4.2TD)
https://forum.ih8mud.com/showpost.php?p=2302332&postcount=23

The other 2 engines specs come from Toyota US tech site (techinfo.toyota.com). Below links to the engine specs.
4.7V8
5.7V8

Nice to have relevant info posted with references isn't it. Not pulling s*** out of my ass like Dougal. Far from his BS about fat TQ curve for relevant Cruiser engines.

 

[Keep]

Not to derail this nice debate, but I havent seen any mention of the new Accord diesel coming out in the 2009 model year. 52mpg in a midsized non-hybrid. This is not even the new "clean diesel" Honda has developed, that will follow the next couple of years.

I think that car more then any other will make the average American aware that diesel technology has advanced quite a bit since the 70s, which is how many still see diesels.

Maybe with the hopeful success of Honda's diesel Toyota will wake up and start sending some to the US too.

 

[Sniperx]

Dougal....you are pretty dense you know that? All you do is assume. You make a great whipping boy...good times kicking you around the block.

No, you can spot a forced induction minicar by the turbo hood, the turbo badge, or the turbo whine.

I'm going to ask the mods to ban you. You add nothing to conversation and only cause trouble. You don't own a land cruiser, you never bring anything LC specific to the table and you only regurgitate what google spits up for you.

 

[matt 105]

For someone to generate 477 posts in 3 months, they must have to back up their arguments - often!......over and over!.....with a lot of people disagreeing with them!


Matt

 

[83bj60]

Keep, if you go to Toyota's website, you will note that Toyota's main mantra is to integrate in the market where they are present, not stir it up.

If anything, Toyota is probably going to be one of the last ones to introduce its diesels in North America.

They wouldn't want to stir a commotion with the establishment like they did when they introduced their first durable, fuel efficient vehicles here in the 70s. The auto industry has such clout it could easily shut the door in one way or another to any manufacturer that introduces radically better vehicles in the marketplace.

Like we say in Québec, every body knows "C'est arrangé avec le gars des vues" (loosely translated as 'everybody knows it's a setup').

 

[Dougal]

I'm going to ask the mods to ban you.

Good luck with that.

It's very easy to disagree with someone who thinks dinosaurs breathe in CO2.

 

[Sniperx]

...

Man....you are one dim bulb. There are several others on this TOYOTA forum who would like to see you gone also.

You're really good at misquoting people...you should run with that...I think FOX news is hiring your type.