which would you choose-12ht or 1HDT in a 40 (1 Viewer)

[bsmith123]

I may have a chance to get both
which would you choose and why--for an fj40 install
1HD-T or 12H-T?

12H-T 3980 6 TID 135@3500 231@2000 12 OHV 91x102 18.6:1

1HD-T 4163 6 TID 165@3600 268@2000 12SOHC 94x100 18.6:1

 

[Tapage]

tuff desision .. I will go 1HD-T just coz it's a more wide sell engine with lots more spare parts everywhere ..

 

[cruiser_guy]

The 1HDT is a newer engine so parts will be available longer into the future.

 

[Radd Cruisers]

They are TOTALLY different in how they drive.

The Torque and HP numbers are totally meaningless for comparisons sake. These engines are very different beasts.

The 1HZ has similar numbers to the 12HT, but the 12HT will eat a 1HZ for breakfast, lunch, and dinner on the highway and spit out the bones. The 1HZ is a far better low end torque engine. The 1HDT is similar to the 1HZ off-road - has good pull at low RPM.

The 1HDT has quite different manners to the 12HT. The 12HT does not have good bottom end grunt, the 1HDT does. The 12HT is capable of better fuel economy (real world) than the 1HDT, but not hugely better.

The 12HT has a very robust inline pump. The 1HDT injection pump is rotary and NOT robust.

The 1HDT has expensive two stage injectors, 12HT has 1 stage injectors which are much less expensive to service.

The 1HDT is somewhat newer technology and parts are more readily available.

Take your pick...


~John

PS - in a 40 series, either one may end up being a handful...

 

[rick_d]

1hd-t yes has a rotary pump, but not 'weak'. $96US to have 6 injectors serviced (no tips needed) at Redding Fuel Injection within last 12 months. pump overhaul is $600 US. New turbo's turn up on ebay for less than cost of overhaul once a month.

the best thing, 4500 redline makes 80mph pretty easy w/ 4.11's. I get around 20 us mpg.

that being said, which engine can you afford? Which can you find?

...and the HDT/HZ starter is right next to a traditional 40 series steering box.

I'd say either is too much engine for a short 40 series.

A 13B-T is a closer drop in with less issues. Save the 6 cylinder for a wagon/troopie.

 

[Tapage]

I'd say either is too much engine for a short 40 series..

well it depends .. IMOP aren't .. complete oposite thought are so much fun to have all that powa under 40 hood ..

 

[Dieseler]

Buy both get two 40s to install them into and let us know which is the best for a forty.
I would go with the 12hz I love the way it runs all around has tons of power at the touch of the throttle and gets as good of mileage in a heavy big tired 61 as compared my 3B and 2B forties.

 

[Granite Grinder]

12H-T hands down... it's old school, just like a 40

 

[bsmith123]

great info

Good info thanks!

the 1HD-t I have already but it looks like a 12H-t is coming my way so I will have more diesels than money soon

For the install the 12H-T is probably the easier drop-in as you dont have to source the h55 input shaft (1hz) but it is more modern and parts availability easier like has been pointed out---and maybe too much power

So if the 12H-T works out it will be a hard choice for sure--I like the ohv motor and the sound of the 12 but the 1H is probably more pratical

of course in the back of my mind I am think 12HT in the garage and maybe a rebuild on it = a HJ61 in the future. I should be so lucky!

Thanks for the inputs, glad to hear any more

 

[Radd Cruisers]

1hd-t yes has a rotary pump, [...[ pump overhaul is $600 US. New turbo's turn up on ebay for less than cost of overhaul once a month.

The pump overhauls we have sent out here will run from $1200 to $2500 (ACSD falls in and guts the pump). We've probably sent out 8 in the last 2 years.

Cost to do a 12HT pump? Oh, yeah, they don't really ever fail... I have never had to send in a 12HT or 2H pump for rebuilding. They can last 750,000 kms if cared for.

An $96 injector service is not much of a service... I doubt they did much more check the pattern for that.


~John

 

[Tapage]

An $96 injector service is not much of a service... I doubt they did much more check the pattern for that.

honestly for 2 stage injector as the 1HD-T is for 96 bukcs it's more than smoking deal .. I will send mines asap ! hope they offer warranty over the job ..

 

[rick_d]

john-

i'll scan the invoices if you want. I can get more from a friends job as well. Redding has done turbos, injectors, and pumps for several people on the board.

4 of the 6 injectors were shimmed and all cleaned and tested. they did not need nozzles.

Anyway, in the us the cost of rebulding a denso pump is fairly cheap unless you have eaten something inside. $1,000 (US) is rich.

and cold start devices should be thrown in the trash and replaced with a cover plate and 80 cent O ring.

 

[bsmith123]

other things

Well,

it may be that other things turn up to help the decision.

in order to use the 1HD-T I would need the fj7* bellhousing and input shaft for a 1hz---that looks to be about 800 bucks. Once
the bullet has been bitten though those parts could be moved from engine to engine and 1HDTs are plentiful compared to 12H-T's. Not that I think I would ever have to replace it once it was in.

The 12H-T bolts right up to the H55 and in my case might come with the engine so that simplifies the install and cost for the install. Later on I wonder what parts I might need that would be hard to source and could not be rebuilt.

It seems to me that marketing and political jack-a$$es are making me pull my hair out and reach in my wallet though!

Both these motors arent cheap to begin with

 

[bsmith123]

dyno sheets

They are TOTALLY different in how they drive.

The Torque and HP numbers are totally meaningless for comparisons sake. These engines are very different beasts.

The 1HZ has similar numbers to the 12HT, but the 12HT will eat a 1HZ for breakfast, lunch, and dinner on the highway and spit out the bones. The 1HZ is a far better low end torque engine. The 1HDT is similar to the 1HZ off-road - has good pull at low RPM.

The 1HDT has quite different manners to the 12HT. The 12HT does not have good bottom end grunt, the 1HDT does. The 12HT is capable of better fuel economy (real world) than the 1HDT, but not hugely better.

~John

PS - in a 40 series, either one may end up being a handful...

This is so true as far as the numbers dont tell the whole story so first hand experience goes a long way in telling what it will actually be like

I have heard the 12H-t can be a little twitchy off idle with too much power but with some adjusting of the linkage can be made to behave

I believe with the H55 and the turbo that the 1HD-t will be no dog on the hwy though and the 4000 rpm redline would be a plus there I think

As far as too much power---well my grocery getter is a Trailblazer SS--guess I dont NEED a 6.0 for that but it sure is nice sometimes and I am capable of controlling my right foot most of the time

 

[crushers]

well, first off. NEITHER engine is a "handful" in a 40. the only time an engine becomes a handful is with an agressive driver.
both engines are within 200 lbs of the 2F that is coming out so weight is not an issue.
both engines have the sensitive throttle issue but can be rectified.
as stated earlier the HDT will have access to parts LONG after the parts for the 12HT has dried up.
the 12HT is a bullet proof monster, no doubts there.
I am not a big fan of the HDT like most on this site are, it is NOT great on fuel but it is quiet, very quiet engine and smooth as silk.
me, i like the 1HZ with turbo. smooth quiet powerful (will eat a 12HT for breakfast and then challenge the HDT for lunch).
the HDT will be more work to install but in the end it will be a nicer DD.

it is your money and time, post up an install thread for all to enjoy.

 

[bsmith123]

me, i like the 1HZ with turbo. smooth quiet powerful (will eat a 12HT for breakfast and then challenge the HDT for lunch).
the HDT will be more work to install but in the end it will be a nicer DD.

Crusher, appreciate all the help so far and glad to hear your take on the motors

So it is on then? Lined up at the lights? Turbos whistling and then the worlds slowest drage race! A free lunch sounds good after whats gone into the cruiser, and we should be able to do the quarter by lunch

 

[crushers]

baby, i live for that ...
when you shipping your truck over? i will be happy to pick you up at the dock.
is it 1/4 mile times or 0-100 k/h or top end?

i did 0-100 in a HZJ75 turbo 1HZ, H55F in 13.8 seconds ... i beleive Lowenbrau was in the truck that night and he might recollect the event in question. (that was on 35" boots with 4.11s ((mind you, it did have the PI turned on)) so that would be roughly 110 k/h).

just sayin that a tweaked 1HZ turbo is a engine to be reckoned with.

 

[bsmith123]

1hdt

YouTube - 12HT 1/4 Mile HJ61 18.04 seconds

here's an HJ61 1/4 mile in 18.04 and looked like 140 KPH at the end so that would be 87MPH (12H-T)


Not doubting the ability of the 1HZ at all--I bet thats fun

But in all seriousness I hate a dog I dont need blazing speed but I like it to move when I want to move not just sit there making noise, eh?


You may see me in Ontario yet, I have relatives in Stony Creek, in the meantime work on your holeshots

 

[crushers]

the best part of the vid was the laughter ...
fun, eh?
140 in under 30 sec, not bad for 5000 lbs of steel being moved by 135 hp...

BTW, the vid was 4 sec by the time you actually accelerated. so ... i am thinking closer to 14 sec 0-100 ... no?

 

[crushers]

for comparrison sake, a LJ78 takes 28 sec to get to 100 under heavy throttle ...