Any updates on the plugs how have they worked out?
Which plugs should I be running - B, 2B, 3B, H and 2H diesels (1 Viewer)
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Rusto
SILVER Star
Rusto
SILVER Star
Alight... I have three out of four of the plugs and will put 'em in this weekend.
TruPar's communication has been pretty good, albeit all reactive. One is still on back order.
After carefully pulling back a couple of stickers, I can tell they are made in Taiwan and orginally came from a place called "Total Source" which looks to be an Aussie company.
It does say 20.5V on the plug
, so that's right. I measured the resistance on them and they all came in right at 5.1 ohms, which is out of Toyota spec on the high side for 24V B motors. FSM says "3.4-4.4"
One of the old plugs (I haven't pulled the other, gave me 7.3 ohms, which is way out of whack. (EDIT - just looked at my pic and noticed that the old plug is 19V, which isn't correct.. also shows was made in Japan and has "G - GT 204" The first G could be a six.)
Here is the old vs. new . My hopes are with the new plugs that not only does it start better and idle smoother on warm up, but that my glow plug indicator works..
TruPar's communication has been pretty good, albeit all reactive. One is still on back order.
After carefully pulling back a couple of stickers, I can tell they are made in Taiwan and orginally came from a place called "Total Source" which looks to be an Aussie company.
It does say 20.5V on the plug
, so that's right. I measured the resistance on them and they all came in right at 5.1 ohms, which is out of Toyota spec on the high side for 24V B motors. FSM says "3.4-4.4"
One of the old plugs (I haven't pulled the other, gave me 7.3 ohms, which is way out of whack. (EDIT - just looked at my pic and noticed that the old plug is 19V, which isn't correct.. also shows was made in Japan and has "G - GT 204" The first G could be a six.)
Here is the old vs. new . My hopes are with the new plugs that not only does it start better and idle smoother on warm up, but that my glow plug indicator works..
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Sorry for being so dense, but can anyone confirm which plugs we need for our 11/82 build hj47 troopy? It’s got a glow light like the pic (not the little filament).
I think it is the 8.5volt one, but just have zero idea for sure & hate to make a big mistake.
thanks!
Abe
I think it is the 8.5volt one, but just have zero idea for sure & hate to make a big mistake.
thanks!
Abe
hj 60
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@Rusto bit long text, sorry.
I don't think a glow light is dependent of a working glow-plug cycle.
19 v or 20 is still in range for me, (95%) it should not make a big difference in starting if both are new, but I will always advice all new plugs and no testing because somehow testing does not eliminate glowplug problems (it seems)
Because a plug can test fine but still cool down to soon when diesel is injected, and then a rough shivering start.
Some plugs are for afterglow but I don't know what the difference is in the plug. As consumers got annoyed by waiting for glowing the glow time was decreased by hotter plugs, but those plugs are not what we want I think, the landcruiser design needs a few seconds to get to a certain radius where the heat is transmitted.
So I think a fast and super hot glow plug (ohms) does not help to start a landcruiser, it needs to be hot for a certain few seconds and not cool instantly when diesel starts cooling the chamber (so self combustion under pressure and difference in core material like ceramic plugs)
Therefore I would not go for other plugs than mentioned by fsm or in this topic, no made in taiwan (but almost same voltage), I hope they work out and last long enough.
Glow plugs seem to get worse over time and they have no moving parts but they wear, so no panic when they reached the end but also a previous owner could have messed it up.
I think a glow plug is the easiest repair and a faulty one has such a high impact on starting and smoke clouds, afterglow can reduce smoke with 40% so also for older models it can maybe make a big difference to improve with a glow controller. (our Fiat diesel improved a lot when afterglowing for 15 seconds, smoke and cold idle are worth the effort and I wanted to replace the plugs anyway so searched for afterglow type and changed electrical setup)
It has taken me some time to understand (trust) that a car trader will always use the inexpensive parts because those will last the 3 month guarantee period, then the buyer comes back and thinks it is just bad luck and the seller was a nice guy so maybe he can repair for a friendly price.
Anyway I hope you get the right fsm (japan) plugs and many happy cold starts.
I don't think a glow light is dependent of a working glow-plug cycle.
19 v or 20 is still in range for me, (95%) it should not make a big difference in starting if both are new, but I will always advice all new plugs and no testing because somehow testing does not eliminate glowplug problems (it seems)
Because a plug can test fine but still cool down to soon when diesel is injected, and then a rough shivering start.
Some plugs are for afterglow but I don't know what the difference is in the plug. As consumers got annoyed by waiting for glowing the glow time was decreased by hotter plugs, but those plugs are not what we want I think, the landcruiser design needs a few seconds to get to a certain radius where the heat is transmitted.
So I think a fast and super hot glow plug (ohms) does not help to start a landcruiser, it needs to be hot for a certain few seconds and not cool instantly when diesel starts cooling the chamber (so self combustion under pressure and difference in core material like ceramic plugs)
Therefore I would not go for other plugs than mentioned by fsm or in this topic, no made in taiwan (but almost same voltage), I hope they work out and last long enough.
Glow plugs seem to get worse over time and they have no moving parts but they wear, so no panic when they reached the end but also a previous owner could have messed it up.
I think a glow plug is the easiest repair and a faulty one has such a high impact on starting and smoke clouds, afterglow can reduce smoke with 40% so also for older models it can maybe make a big difference to improve with a glow controller. (our Fiat diesel improved a lot when afterglowing for 15 seconds, smoke and cold idle are worth the effort and I wanted to replace the plugs anyway so searched for afterglow type and changed electrical setup)
It has taken me some time to understand (trust) that a car trader will always use the inexpensive parts because those will last the 3 month guarantee period, then the buyer comes back and thinks it is just bad luck and the seller was a nice guy so maybe he can repair for a friendly price.
Anyway I hope you get the right fsm (japan) plugs and many happy cold starts.
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tlaporte
SILVER Star
11/82 HJ47 you want 6V assuming you’re glow system is original and not tampered with.
Your truck will have had the SuperGlow system setup from factory. Look at Tom’s first post in this thread and you should find part numbers for OEM as well as reputable aftermarket plugs such as Bosch, etc.
Thanks! I was thinking the second chart had been corrected & updated, so I was on the wrong track for sure!
Thanks a lot! This was very helpfull. I have the described dash-mounted coil viewing hole. Much apreciated!Glowplug selection seems to be a common issue amongst many owners of classic indirect-injection diesel landcruisers.
While glow plug manufacturers/distributors put out "selection catalogs", most of these catalogs have accumulated numerous errors.
So as a solution, I've tried to put together an alternative selection method as a trial.
Models affected:
BJ40, BJ41, BJ42, BJ43, BJ44, BJ45, BJ46 (running B, 2B or 3B engines depending on the model)
BJ60 (running the 3B engine)
BJ70, BJ73, BJ75 (running the 3B engine)
HJ45, HJ47 (running the H or 2H engine respectively)
HJ60 (running the 2H engine)
HJ75 (running the 2H engine)
My selection method here is based on my belief that, apart from a few minor exceptions, these cruisers can use just 6 glow plugs in all. And I believe which one an individual cruiser should use depends simply on the battery power supply available (whether 12 or 24 volt) and on which type of pre-heat system is fitted. (Glow Controller, Fixed Delay, or Super Glow)
Anyway, here is my selection guide (from which I hope you can select the correct plug for your indirect injection diesel landcruiser):
Guide to glow plug selection
BTW - The yellow type signifies "24 volt cruiser information".
12 Volt
Glow controller 8.5V
Toyota 19850-68030, NGK Y-128T, Denso DG234
APS 5013, EIKO GT208, JKT PT104, MAY PT104
Bosch GPT208, VSP PT104, Champion CH121, HKT PT104
Warning! While these plugs are CLAIMED to be equivalent to each other - their current-draw does vary from brand to brand and so unfortunately some of them may not glow your Controller properly!!! (See post #54 for further information.)
Here reduced-voltage is fed to the glowplug busbar via a dash-mounted glow controller during pre-heating. This glow controller (which consists of a coil of resistance-wire behind a viewing hole) gradually brightens to "red-hot" (or even to "bright orange" depending on the model) after 15 to 20 seconds to give a visual indication that your plugs are hot enough for you to start cranking your engine.
Fixed delay 10.5V
Toyota 19850-68010, NGK Y-147T, Denso DG232
Bosch GPT218, Champion CH133, HKT PT 145
Here the busbar receives approximately the full battery voltage during pre-heating (because no glow controller or other type of resistor is fitted upstream). There is a glow-light (pre-heat light) on the dashboard that illuminates during pre-heating and extinguishes after a fixed time delay of between 15 and 20 seconds to tell you when to start cranking.
Owners often create a similar set-up that requires the same plugs (where the busbar again gets connected directly to the battery without any resistance device fitted inbetween) when their factory-wired pre-heating systems become troublesome. In such cases the dash-mounted momentary switch used to manually energize the glowplug busbar is commonly referred to as a “Wilson Switch”. And because no timer is used, the driver must estimate the pre-heat duration themselves.
A big advantage here is that the Wilson Switch allows the driver to smooth out a rough cold-idle by providing "After Glow". (The Wilson Switch can be used to re-energise the busbar once the engine is running.)
Super glow 6V
Toyota 19850-68050 (or 68051), Denso DG220
Bosch GPT214, Champion CH125, HKT PT146
Here the Toyota engineers sped-up the pre-heating procedure by using faster heating plugs (lower voltage plugs). They also installed two stages of pre-heat, and automated both these pre-heating durations according to coolant/block temperature and other factors. The first stage connects the busbar directly to the battery (12V) and the second stage (after-glow) drops this voltage to somewhere close to the plugs nominal voltage (6V).
Like the "Fixed Delay system" there is again a glow light (pre-heat light) that is extinguished to tell you when to crank. However here it illuminates for a much shorter time. (Typically just 2 or 3 seconds.)
24 Volt
Glow controller 20.5V
Toyota 19850-68040, NGK Y-178T, Denso DG235
Bosch GPT207, Champion CH122, HKT PT109
Warning! While these plugs are CLAIMED to be equivalent to each other - their current-draw does vary from brand to brand and so some of them may not glow your Controller properly!!! (See post #54 for further information.)
Here reduced-voltage is fed to the glowplug busbar via a dash-mounted glow controller during pre-heating. This glow controller (which consists of a coil of resistance-wire behind a viewing hole) gradually brightens to "red-hot" (or even to "bright orange" depending on the model) after 15 to 20 seconds to give a visual indication that your plugs are hot enough for you to start cranking your engine.
Fixed delay 23V
Toyota 19850-68020, Denso DG233, EIKO GT213
Bosch GPT213, HKT PT108, MAY PT108, JKT PT108,
Here the busbar receives approximately the full battery voltage during pre-heating (because no glow controller or other type of resistor is fitted upstream). There is a glow-light (pre-heat light) on the dashboard that illuminates during pre-heating and extinguishes after a fixed time delay of between 15 and 20 seconds to tell you when to start cranking.
Owners often create a similar set-up that requires the same plugs (where the busbar again gets connected directly to the battery without any resistance device fitted inbetween) when their factory-wired pre-heating systems become troublesome. In such cases the dash-mounted momentary switch used to manually energize the glowplug busbar is commonly referred to as a “Wilson Switch”. And because no timer is used, the driver must estimate the pre-heat duration themselves.
A big advantage here is that the Wilson Switch allows the driver to smooth out a rough cold-idle by providing "After Glow". (The Wilson Switch can be used to re-energise the busbar once the engine is running.)
Super glow 14V
Toyota 19850-68060, NGK Y-197R, Denso DG222
Bosch GPT217, Champion CH104, HKT PT141
Here the Toyota engineers sped-up the pre-heating procedure by using faster heating plugs (lower voltage plugs). They also installed two stages of pre-heat, and automated both these pre-heating durations according to coolant/block temperature and other factors. The first stage connects the busbar directly to the battery (24V) and the second stage (after-glow) drops this voltage to somewhere close to the plugs nominal voltage (14V).
Like the "Fixed Delay system" there is again a glow light (pre-heat light) that is extinguished to tell you when to crank. However here it illuminates for a much shorter time. (Typically just 2 or 3 seconds.)
Exceptions:
Toyota lists Aug 1988 to Jan 1990 12V BJ70, BJ73, HJ60, and HJ75 cruisers as running 11V plugs (Part number 19850-64031)
Originally I had listed more "exceptions" here (copied from various plug catalogs) but my research of the Toyota EPC didn't clearly back them up.
However I suspect pre-1975/76 diesels (BJ40 & HJ45) may not comply with this guide. But even then, non-compliance may really be limited to simply pre-June 1973 HJ45 (H) models ---- My research isn't conclusive.
Note:
If anyone at all (not just the owners of pre 1975/76 diesels) finds their engine doesn't run the plugs in this guide ... then PLEASE add a post to this thread so we can work out why (and so we can have real evidence for others to take note of).
This thread is basically about "factory wiring". But even if a previous owner has tampered with it, I'm hoping information here will still offer useful guidance.
As far as I know, all of the very early diesels ran "Glow Controller pre-heat" and this form of pre-heat ceased for most models in late 1982 (but may have remained in some till late 1984) when Fixed Delay and Super Glow took over.
Hi Everyone - glow plug question
I have a 1978 HJ45 (H Engine) - 12 volt with the standard glow plug setup.
I have 8.5v (new) plugs installed and everything seems to work ok - except I get a lot of white smoke at startup
I have pulled out the glow plugs and the 2 nearest the cab (where the cable connects to the bus bar) are dry and the other 4 are 'wet'
When I check the voltage at the bus bar I get about 7 volts when glowing and this gradually increases to about 7.8v - it will eventually get to about 8v after 30 seconds or so and by then the glow plug controller in the dash gets very hot.
I can hear the relay click when I turn the key to glow
So to my question..
Is the 7 - 7.5v enough for the glow plugs to work properly? or do they need the full 8.5v?
If the glow plugs aren't getting the full voltage - is this a possible cause of the white smoke? (i have had the injectors replaced, compression is ok, doesn't use oil or water or smoke when warm)
Thanks for any help
I have a 1978 HJ45 (H Engine) - 12 volt with the standard glow plug setup.
I have 8.5v (new) plugs installed and everything seems to work ok - except I get a lot of white smoke at startup
I have pulled out the glow plugs and the 2 nearest the cab (where the cable connects to the bus bar) are dry and the other 4 are 'wet'
When I check the voltage at the bus bar I get about 7 volts when glowing and this gradually increases to about 7.8v - it will eventually get to about 8v after 30 seconds or so and by then the glow plug controller in the dash gets very hot.
I can hear the relay click when I turn the key to glow
So to my question..
Is the 7 - 7.5v enough for the glow plugs to work properly? or do they need the full 8.5v?
If the glow plugs aren't getting the full voltage - is this a possible cause of the white smoke? (i have had the injectors replaced, compression is ok, doesn't use oil or water or smoke when warm)
Thanks for any help
I've been struggling with hard starting and smoking (for 10-15 seconds) with my 89 LJ73 with 2L-T engine since I got it this fall. It's running Bosch 0 250 202 054 7v plugs which I've tested and they glow fine with 12v after 2 seconds. Tested the superglow at the plug end for correct resistance of temp sensor. Key on, both relays kick in, light out after 1 second then main relay off after another second.
Getting 9v on rail for 1-2 sec then main relay off and 4.6v for 20 seconds. Just from random testing, it seems that if I do key on and wait 6 seconds then key off and repeat, it starts quicker and smokes much less. The main relay kicks off immediately on second try but the accumulated time with 4.6v seems to heat the plugs enough to give me a quicker less smoky start.
What is also strange is that it appears I have a glow controller? in the dash as well but it never lights up (red window with a darker square in it). The back of it has no part number, just says 'Bosch' and is cylindrical with two wires.
Should I just abandon the whole Superglow system and install 12v plugs and a Murphy Switch? Keying up twice and waiting 12 seconds seems a bit much but if I don't it's rough on the starter and fills the garage with smoke.
Getting 9v on rail for 1-2 sec then main relay off and 4.6v for 20 seconds. Just from random testing, it seems that if I do key on and wait 6 seconds then key off and repeat, it starts quicker and smokes much less. The main relay kicks off immediately on second try but the accumulated time with 4.6v seems to heat the plugs enough to give me a quicker less smoky start.
What is also strange is that it appears I have a glow controller? in the dash as well but it never lights up (red window with a darker square in it). The back of it has no part number, just says 'Bosch' and is cylindrical with two wires.
Should I just abandon the whole Superglow system and install 12v plugs and a Murphy Switch? Keying up twice and waiting 12 seconds seems a bit much but if I don't it's rough on the starter and fills the garage with smoke.
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I kind of feel like 9Volts may be a bit low for initial voltage. A few years ago I checked my voltage and I was getting 18 volts on a 24volt Superglow. I went through and cleaned all the connections in the system and was rewarded with 22 volts on initial glow... (which would be the approximate equivalent of you seeing 11 volts to start)
Maybe time to go through and clean every connection...
I like having a working glow system, and haven't had to resort to the Wilson Switch yet.
Maybe time to go through and clean every connection...
I like having a working glow system, and haven't had to resort to the Wilson Switch yet.
what I found to be an issue was my controller was not working correctly due to a poor ground. I added a ground strap from the engine to the body which fixed the issue. What identified the problem was my 47 had a parasitic drain and I found the radio was the culprit. Once I added the ground strap it corrected multiple issues.
I'd like to shut down my SuperGlow and install a Murphy Switch. Current glow plugs are 0 250 202 054 7.5v and I'd like to replace them with an equivalent 12v if I can find the correct length and diameter. Bosch catalog not much help. Ideas?
Maybe these? 12V Glow Plug 19850-54120 for Toyota Engine Dyan Hiace Hilux 3L 5L 2L-TE | eBay - https://www.ebay.com/itm/235297305387
Maybe these? 12V Glow Plug 19850-54120 for Toyota Engine Dyan Hiace Hilux 3L 5L 2L-TE | eBay - https://www.ebay.com/itm/235297305387
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