Which ATF should i use.
- Thread starter andycanman
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According to Comma's website:
"AQF®: Approved for use in Borg Warner automatic transmissions and torque converters.
Also suitable for Ford transmissions (including C.3. Bordeaux gear box) and certain hydraulic systems and power steering pumps requiring Ford type fluid."
So it's not the same stuff, and the safest thing to do would be to change it out, especially if it starts shifting funny.
Now, with that being said, most ATFs nowadays are actually all pretty similar. WalMart here has some house brand Dexron VI that says this on the bottle: "Dexron VI, GM Approved for use where a Dexron VI product is recommended. Also suitable for Dexron II Dexron III JASCO M315(1A) Mercon SP Toyota WS Toyota T IV Applications". (Mercon is Ford fluid)
I recently did transmission flushes on an '04 4runner with a 4 speed, and an '05 4runner with a 5 speed, and I used Dexron VI (not the WalMart stuff, but Valvoline). The 4 Speed called for Toyota T IV, and the 5 speed called for Toyota WS, both shift and work great.
I guess it's up to you whether you want to chance it though, it may or may not be just fine.
"AQF®: Approved for use in Borg Warner automatic transmissions and torque converters.
Also suitable for Ford transmissions (including C.3. Bordeaux gear box) and certain hydraulic systems and power steering pumps requiring Ford type fluid."
So it's not the same stuff, and the safest thing to do would be to change it out, especially if it starts shifting funny.
Now, with that being said, most ATFs nowadays are actually all pretty similar. WalMart here has some house brand Dexron VI that says this on the bottle: "Dexron VI, GM Approved for use where a Dexron VI product is recommended. Also suitable for Dexron II Dexron III JASCO M315(1A) Mercon SP Toyota WS Toyota T IV Applications". (Mercon is Ford fluid)
I recently did transmission flushes on an '04 4runner with a 4 speed, and an '05 4runner with a 5 speed, and I used Dexron VI (not the WalMart stuff, but Valvoline). The 4 Speed called for Toyota T IV, and the 5 speed called for Toyota WS, both shift and work great.
I guess it's up to you whether you want to chance it though, it may or may not be just fine.
- Thread starter
- #3
Hi and thanks..as you say better safe than sorry..will change out i think to be sure..
With one of the LC's arguable week points being the 4-speed transmission and with replacements costing upwards of $4k, why would there be any doubt about using Toyota fluid? Seems like a no-brainer to me. The dollars saved are simply not work the risk regardless of what it says on the bottle. Just my 0.02...
Any Dexron III ATF would be fine in the A343F transmission (Dexron II is no longer available). Pull the dipstick and look at the tip and it should also be engraved in the stick near the end.
I prefer to use a top-brand synthetic for all fluid changes. I just dropped the transmission pan, cleaned the magnets, and replaced and refilled with Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF yesterday.
However, be careful because my owner's manual says that a Transmission Drain/Refill of the pan is only 2.1 qts. I get about 5 out of mine when doing this, so make sure to have enough on-hand and check the dipstick after adding quarts beginning with the 3rd quart. Make sure the engine is running when checking the level, too.
If you drain the pan and only put 2-qts back in, then there won't be enough fluid in the pan for the pump to pick it up and you'll starve the transmission and the gears won't engauge when you try to shift it. If you put 3-qts in, then you might get it in gear, but you'll have trouble under certain conditions. At 4-qts, you will be OK, but you're running on a diminished fluid volume, causing any particulates or contaminates to be at higher concentrations then if running a full charge.
By draining and refilling 5 quarts, you're getting approximately 1/3rd of the fluid volume in the transmission (due to the hold-up in the torque converter). If you do this every 15,000 miles, then you'll have a continuously fresh supply and you won't need a "flush".
I prefer to use a top-brand synthetic for all fluid changes. I just dropped the transmission pan, cleaned the magnets, and replaced and refilled with Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF yesterday.
However, be careful because my owner's manual says that a Transmission Drain/Refill of the pan is only 2.1 qts. I get about 5 out of mine when doing this, so make sure to have enough on-hand and check the dipstick after adding quarts beginning with the 3rd quart. Make sure the engine is running when checking the level, too.
If you drain the pan and only put 2-qts back in, then there won't be enough fluid in the pan for the pump to pick it up and you'll starve the transmission and the gears won't engauge when you try to shift it. If you put 3-qts in, then you might get it in gear, but you'll have trouble under certain conditions. At 4-qts, you will be OK, but you're running on a diminished fluid volume, causing any particulates or contaminates to be at higher concentrations then if running a full charge.
By draining and refilling 5 quarts, you're getting approximately 1/3rd of the fluid volume in the transmission (due to the hold-up in the torque converter). If you do this every 15,000 miles, then you'll have a continuously fresh supply and you won't need a "flush".
- Thread starter
- #6
Drained my gearbox this morning and refilled with dextron 3 ATF..think i dropped out around two and a half litres ish but when i came to refill it took 3 litres and it is just on the second notch at the cool part of the dip stick..least it has had a good flush though with standard ATF first..will recheck in morning when it has settled.
Curious, how did the magnets look and have you used the M 1 syn. before?
- Thread starter
- #8
Magnet fine..never used mobile 1 before..thought i stick to what owners manual says to use.
clicky the linky thingy here
In short, they had a fine metallic dust on them, that's it. Exceptionally good news for 152K miles, IMO. I have begun a rotation of adding 5qts of M1 Syn ATF every 15K miles, which is basically every oil change as well. Cheap insurance on a $4000 Transmission.
I flushed the ATF at around 100,000. I went through about 18 qt. of M1 syn., I know wasteful, but did the job alone. I noticed a drop in MPG at that time, the trade off was smoother shifting. Will be do again this spring, when the garage warms up.
Debating if I should stick with M 1 syn or switch to the new Dexron VI (GM replacement to the III). Also if I should pull the pan, which is not recommend in the FSM as a maintenance item.
Would you pull the pan again?
Debating if I should stick with M 1 syn or switch to the new Dexron VI (GM replacement to the III). Also if I should pull the pan, which is not recommend in the FSM as a maintenance item.
Would you pull the pan again?
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It's a one-banana job, and only takes time. I would do it again just for the peace of mind KNOWING that it looked that good inside.
Dexron VI is full synthetic (at least the Valvoline stuff I get is, the WalMart stuff I looked at is not advertised as full synthetic), so you are getting a nice long lasting fluid, especially compared to T-IV or WS. I paid $6.99/qt at the local auto parts store, not sure how that compares to M1 price wise.
I've read somewhere that Toyota recommends to pull the pan at 100k and "inspect" the filter (which is more of a screen to catch the big stuff, making fluid replacement at consistent intervals a good thing to do), especially if any towing is done. If the pan hasn't ever been off in 100+k, I like to pull it to inspect the magnet(s)/bottom of the pan, clean it up, and trow a new filter/screen in there (filter kits are relatively cheap).
I've pulled 5 trans pans for friends in the last month (LOL, when it rains it pours!), and flushed 4 of them. Two 100+k mi 4th gen 4runners (one 4spd, and one 5spd), a Pathfinder with 200k that had never had the pan off or the fluid changed, a Mercedes E300D with 247k that had never had the pan off or the fluid changed, and a Chevy delivery van (since it had only 60k on it, I just did a pan drop to swap the filter and check everything out).
Did the blue RTV hold up?
When I was a tech we used to call Blue RTV "back yard blue" (no offense bamachem).
I always use black RTV, especially for applications sealing oil, and Toyota black RTV is the best black RTV I've ever used. The trans pan on the 4spd will of course be sealed with their red stuff (which is also available at the dealer, along awith the black stuff).
The filter kits that I have been getting lately from Oreilly's have a rubber pan gasket included in them, which makes pulling the pan for the next person (or if you have the rig for enough miles, you) much easier the second time around, since there is no RTV cleanup.
Bawiz, you've been busy dropping five pans, messy, at-least when I've done them.
Didn't remember if it was V or VI, I pickup for flush a Chevy Van I recently did. I used Mobile, IIRC it is a blend not full syn. I had to get from wholesale distributer as no retailer carried the new Mobile AFT in Denver.
Didn't remember if it was V or VI, I pickup for flush a Chevy Van I recently did. I used Mobile, IIRC it is a blend not full syn. I had to get from wholesale distributer as no retailer carried the new Mobile AFT in Denver.
I agree the Toyota Red is great stuff.
Are the Oreilly pan gaskets giving you a 100% seal and what is the longest you've seen one on a toyota?
Haha, yeah, actually, now that I think about it, it's 6, I forgot about a Wrangler I did too, LOL. All of them I did diff and T-case fluid replacements on as well. The imports are less messy, since they have drain plugs, but the drain plug-less domestics can get a little hairy. I've also worked in two different trans shops, so you begin to perfect the art of no mess pan removal.
So many different numbers and fluids, Dex VI, Mercon V, T-IV, lol. Hmmm, M1 ATF isn't full synthetic? Interesting, but now that you say that, I remember hearing something about that many years ago...
Oh yeah, the initial seal is great, though I've only seen them on for a few weeks, so I can't speak to the longevity of these specific gaskets. But with my overall experience of seeing how well GM and Ford reusable rubber gaskets hold up and seal, I would say they should do pretty good (though the GM and Ford ones are a little bit different animals, they seem to have a similar rubber compound). Of course, the Oreilly's gaskets are made in China, which could be good, or could be bad, lol.
To be clear Mobile 1 synthetic ATF is a full synthetic and Mobile Dexron VI is a blend. I just check with Mobile to be sure. The full syn is thicker than the Dexron VI. M 1 syn viscosity @ 100 C is 7.4 the Dexron is 5.83. Which is why (higher viscosity) I believe it reduce my MPG.
Ooooohhhhhh, I see now, makes sense. The Valvoline Dex VI says on the bottle "Full Synthetic", so I was like "This stuff should work well, Yoink."
