What's killing my starter? (1 Viewer)

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grrlscout89FJ62

grrlscout89FJ62

Joined
Aug 13, 2004
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Location
Hell City, AZ
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As discussed in previous threads, I've been having some starting issues. So on Thursday, we popped in a rebuild one from NAPA, and all was fine n dandy - until last night.

I jumped in, turned the key, and got NADA. Well, I got electrical, but no cranking, no nothing else. This time there was no gradual decline in the starting. It just up and quit.

So what do you think?

Did NAPA sell me a turd? Maybe just the wrong kind?

Or is something eating killing my startes? (GF suggested maybe something with my flywheel.)

Thanks for any ideas
:cheers:
 
If the flywheel was eating your starter there would be obvious wear on the teeth of the starter.

Most likely you got a bad reman..

You check your battery cables?
 
Mace said:
If the flywheel was eating your starter there would be obvious wear on the teeth of the starter.

Most likely you got a bad reman..

You check your battery cables?
Click to expand...

There was some wear on the teeth of the first one we took out. :doh:

Haven't checked the battery cable yet. Will do when the tow truck brings 'er home.
 
NAPA usually gives warrantees with most parts they sell. If it has only been a few days they will replace it with no cahrge. Like Mace mentioned if it was your flywheel the teeth on the starter would have been eaten away. If the starter cannot get the amps it needs to turn the motor because of bad cables, it would burn out the motor under load.
 
Disconnect the battery and clean the terminals and the connectors with a wire brush. If there is any visible corrosion (green stuff) this may be the culprit.

Disconnect the starter's ground cable and clean off both ends of the connector and the place where it attaches to the frame.

If this solves the problem then it solved the problem.

Did you give up your old starter as a core at Napa? :doh:

Don't put Napa rebuilds on a Cruiser! :doh:

Yet other possibilities: circuit opening relay, neutral start switch. Do you have a Factory Service Manual? If not, you need one. Get the 1989 or 1990 Land Cruiser manual - the same info as the earlier manuals, but all in one volume so it's less expensive. About $67 plus shipping directly from Toyota Publications, 800-622-2033 - the best spent $70 you will ever spend on your Cruiser. Other manuals (Haynes, Chiltons, etc) are crap in comparison.
 
An OEM starter from the dealer is around $125.
 
grrlscout89FJ62 said:
Wow... looks like it could be a lot of things:

- worn out battery cables
- low battery
- loose wire
- bad ground
- worn ignition contacts
- flywheel missing teeth
- POS reman

Any other signs and symptoms to look for that might narrow this list down?
Click to expand...

Speaking for myself only, if after doing a repair something doesn't work, I often (even usually) find it's related to the work I just did.

Many of the items on your list above "worked" before you swapped the starter, so it's less likely that they suddenly failed (it's possible, but less likely).

So if I was in your situation I would check all the cable connections first - including ground. Totally dead, no click, means that no electricity is getting to the starter, or the starter is toast. (Whereas a click means you are getting some, but not enough.) If your battery cables are old, maybe in the repair one of them was flexed enough that the wire (not the insulation) is cracked?

If you rule out batttery wires/ground then you could test the starter right in the truck by running a wire from the battery to the ignition input on the side of the starter. (Put tranny in neutral, and remove the primary coil wire first.) If nothing happens, the starter is bad. If it engages and spins normally, it's the ignition wiring.

HTH
 
yooper said:
Disconnect the battery and clean the terminals and the connectors with a wire brush. If there is any visible corrosion (green stuff) this may be the culprit.

Disconnect the starter's ground cable and clean off both ends of the connector and the place where it attaches to the frame.

If this solves the problem then it solved the problem.

Did you give up your old starter as a core at Napa? :doh:

Don't put Napa rebuilds on a Cruiser! :doh:

Yet other possibilities: circuit opening relay, neutral start switch. Do you have a Factory Service Manual? If not, you need one. Get the 1989 or 1990 Land Cruiser manual - the same info as the earlier manuals, but all in one volume so it's less expensive. About $67 plus shipping directly from Toyota Publications, 800-622-2033 - the best spent $70 you will ever spend on your Cruiser. Other manuals (Haynes, Chiltons, etc) are crap in comparison.
Click to expand...

Word. :cool:

It is my experience that electical troubles express themselves first through starter problems, since that is the biggest demand for amps in your truck (unless you have a winch or a truly killer sound system). Chances are you are not getting amperage to your starter, or at least not enough amperage. It could be just about anything between the battery and the starter and the starter and the ground that is doing this. Also check the battery's ground connection--corrosion there can limit amperage, too.
 
Jman said:
Word. :cool:

It is my experience that electical troubles express themselves first through starter problems, since that is the biggest demand for amps in your truck (unless you have a winch or a truly killer sound system). Chances are you are not getting amperage to your starter, or at least not enough amperage. It could be just about anything between the battery and the starter and the starter and the ground that is doing this. Also check the battery's ground connection--corrosion there can limit amperage, too.
Click to expand...

Word Up. :cool:

There are multiple ground cables on an FJ62. There is one from the battery to the wheel well and one from there to the engine block. Check both ends of both and clean them up...
 
Yeah, you need to definitely clean up all the cable connections. Do it now. Intermittent contact is classic for this problem.

It could still be something like the circuit opening relay or the neutral start switch. These can be intermittent too...
 
grrlscout89FJ62 said:
***NEW DEVELOPMENT***

I just went to meet the tow truck. He hadn't gotten there yet, so just for kicks, I tried to start er up. It fired right up, the first try! WTF??

Drove home and cancelled the tow truck. But I'm afraid to drive anywhere else, in case it fails to start again.
Click to expand...

Holding to my previous mention of the NSS.

When it won't start have you tried jumping the solenoid? That's a key to what's going wrong.
 
grrlscout89FJ62 said:
OK, I've been through the FSM cover to cover, and I can't find it. Where in my vehicle is the NSS??? It's somewhere in or around the shifter, yes?
Click to expand...

Yeah it's down in there in the shifter linkage. Hold on, I'll check the 3FE archives....


btw, the 3FE list is a great resource. All FJ62 owners should join. Here's my standard shpiel about it: Go to http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/3FE/, join the group, go to the files section, read the introductory welcome message, then start reading all of the stuff in the fixes/lessons learned folder. Send a message to the list introducing yourself. Search the 3FE archives at http://www.birfield.com/archives/ for specific questions.
 
What Yooper says.

The FSM fails to mention the NSS, only a cursory reference. It's on the right side of the transmission, bunch of wire looms running to it. Your experience is exactly what i dealt with and it hasn't come back since I replaced the NSS. PITA to get at and costs close to $200. 3FE has info in rebuilding it though.
 
Did some searching, didn't find much, got to get back to work.....however, it did remind me that you should run the check engine codes. See the FSM for how to do this. If the NSS is bad a code usually comes up.

I THINK the NSS connector is accessible from underneath the truck. Look around the transfer case for any connectors hanging down and check them.


back to work....good luck!
 
yooper said:
Did some searching, didn't find much, got to get back to work.....however, it did remind me that you should run the check engine codes. See the FSM for how to do this. If the NSS is bad a code usually comes up.

I THINK the NSS connector is accessible from underneath the truck. Look around the transfer case for any connectors hanging down and check them.


back to work....good luck!
Click to expand...

Thanks for your help Yoop! I'm a long time lurker on the 3FE list, but often forget to look there for answers.
 
grrlscout89FJ62 said:
OK maybe this a dumb question, but if it's the NSS, should I be able to start it in neutral?
Click to expand...

Nope. If it's the NSS you can start it by jumping the solenoid which bypasses it completely. If it's misbehaving nothing will work, then it might, then it won't - no consistency, nothing predictable, sometimes jiggling the shifter or jamming it hard in and out of park will work but not predictably.

The only time I could be sure it would misbehave was when I was in some small mountain town in the middle of nowhere. :mad:
 
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