compare to a Chevy or ford. What is it that make them run forever. I was yapping with a Toyota service manager. He's an 80 owner. He claims Toyota make the engine loose so it can rack up lots of miles. Who's this guy kidding? OUr motor is base on a Chevy design I hear?
what makes our cruisers have so high miles w/o major engine work?
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hicruise55
IH8MUD VOYEUR
Gonna get a lot of Fact/Fiction!
I would say-
#1 Quality of materials used
#2 Quality of engineering
LandCruisers are completly overbuilt and from the best materials, I have pulled down neglected engines with 200k on them and still see cross hatching in the cylinders! Down to the amount of bolts holding things down, where 2 would be sufficient Toyota will have 6! There is a reason these rigs are so heavy
They may have based off a chevy design, but they definetly perfected it.
I would say-
#1 Quality of materials used
#2 Quality of engineering
LandCruisers are completly overbuilt and from the best materials, I have pulled down neglected engines with 200k on them and still see cross hatching in the cylinders! Down to the amount of bolts holding things down, where 2 would be sufficient Toyota will have 6! There is a reason these rigs are so heavy
They may have based off a chevy design, but they definetly perfected it.
The answer is easy, its a Toyota! The most awesome 4wd there is!;p
Way back when I was having a 3F motor rebuilt at a local machine shop that had done some work on Cruiser motors before and he said that they were harder to machine than a domestic block. He said the reason for this was that Toyota uses a much higher nickel content in their blocks. Just better quality of materials everywhere. The Landcruiser is Toyota's flagship truck for a reason.
Built to run in the most adverse conditions for extended periods of time with neglect of service in mind the Land Cruiser is known for its quality and engineering which can be sumed up in one word.
"TOYOTA"
.
"TOYOTA"
.
x2
and the 1HD-FT diesel feels so under-stress, likely by design
Yota engineers could probably dial in 20% more torque/power easily... this 13y.o. diesel goes to 105mph/170kmh regularly without fuss
LINUS
Waiting for the Great Pumpkin
Not yet mentioned is the fact that Toyota has had something close to ~50 yrs with the inline 6 in the stable, and they really are conservative in when they release a newer version using essentially the same basic design.
Since the 80 series is the last of the inline 6 before the V8 of the 100 series (NA market, still used the same inline 6 formula for the ROW), and you think of all the variations of the inline 6 the rest of the world saw, it's easy to understand why it's a "safe bet" motor - if it carries a Toyota decal on it (forklifts even, according to a thread IIRC Cruiserdan started about a trip to the plant).
I really try to keep up with what V8's the "big 3" use (just to be conversationally literate) - and I can't. It seems like Chevy releases a new LS- motor at least every 2 years & changes the engine management & rotating components during mid-run of some of these even. It makes sense when you see hit-n-miss motors out of Detroit simply in my mind because they don't just hone a few motors to near perfection & then leave well enough alone. I get it, they are bowing to ever changing demand parameters, but it just gets dizzying.
I was told as a kid (now 39) that the Toyota inline 6 was a tolerence-tightened version of a Ford motor (granted, this was from my Grandpa who would spit when he said Toyota, since he was alive through WWII) & while the original design wasn't theirs, he had to give credit for how well they honed it.
Another point for the 80 series to me is that Toyota stays/stuck with body designs for a timeframe far longer than say Honda. Honda redesigns the body every 5 years, and the 80 ran from '89 - '97 (production carried through ~2007 in Venezuela even, so 18 yrs in totality). That gives you some time to refine minor issues & seems as though they like this pace as even the 100 had a 10 yr run for us, maybe the 80 plant in Venezuela is doing these now (guessing).
Also, the relatively low revving of the motor plus the sump capacity has to play into the longevity, but since I didn't engineer the thing I'm just guessing on that.
:::Cliff notes:::
They stick with what works & the inline 6 in a Landcruiser isn't anything new.
Since the 80 series is the last of the inline 6 before the V8 of the 100 series (NA market, still used the same inline 6 formula for the ROW), and you think of all the variations of the inline 6 the rest of the world saw, it's easy to understand why it's a "safe bet" motor - if it carries a Toyota decal on it (forklifts even, according to a thread IIRC Cruiserdan started about a trip to the plant).
I really try to keep up with what V8's the "big 3" use (just to be conversationally literate) - and I can't. It seems like Chevy releases a new LS- motor at least every 2 years & changes the engine management & rotating components during mid-run of some of these even. It makes sense when you see hit-n-miss motors out of Detroit simply in my mind because they don't just hone a few motors to near perfection & then leave well enough alone. I get it, they are bowing to ever changing demand parameters, but it just gets dizzying.
I was told as a kid (now 39) that the Toyota inline 6 was a tolerence-tightened version of a Ford motor (granted, this was from my Grandpa who would spit when he said Toyota, since he was alive through WWII) & while the original design wasn't theirs, he had to give credit for how well they honed it.
Another point for the 80 series to me is that Toyota stays/stuck with body designs for a timeframe far longer than say Honda. Honda redesigns the body every 5 years, and the 80 ran from '89 - '97 (production carried through ~2007 in Venezuela even, so 18 yrs in totality). That gives you some time to refine minor issues & seems as though they like this pace as even the 100 had a 10 yr run for us, maybe the 80 plant in Venezuela is doing these now (guessing).
Also, the relatively low revving of the motor plus the sump capacity has to play into the longevity, but since I didn't engineer the thing I'm just guessing on that.
:::Cliff notes:::
They stick with what works & the inline 6 in a Landcruiser isn't anything new.
The Totota F 6 cylinder is actually based on the old 235, later 253, Chevy 6. Not sure about the heritage of the 1FZ, but it's probably a brand new design.
One point missing here is that inline six engines are an inherently low stress design - the 3FE and 1ZFE are not the only inline sixes with a reputation for longevity. Chrysler's 4.0's go forever as well, although they are not likely as overbuilt as the Toyota powerplants.
The downside is these engines are very heavy and very inefficient, with narrow powerbands. And of course, the 1ZFE does not go forever without major engine work. Just search "head gasket".
The downside is these engines are very heavy and very inefficient, with narrow powerbands. And of course, the 1ZFE does not go forever without major engine work. Just search "head gasket".
The 1FZ was a forklift engine designed and manufactured by Toyota Industries for forklifts in the mid-1980's. It was a completely new design by Toyota when it was adapted for the Land Cruiser.
Other than that, it's a tractor engine with air conditioning.
Here ya go: http://www.toyota-industries.com/component/products/1fz.html
Jacket
Moderator
x2
and the 1HD-FT diesel feels so under-stress, likely by design
Yota engineers could probably dial in 20% more torque/power easily... this 13y.o. diesel goes to 105mph/170kmh regularly without fuss
quality control
By this point this is hearsay, so remember your grain of salt. The overall point stuck with me so I will share.
A year or so ago was chatting with a semi-local machine shop owner who had talked to Toyota about making water pumps and another small machined part that I do not recall for the current Corolla. There was something like an 8 step process from start to finish; he could do it in 3 steps, with automation filling in the other 5 in between. Toyota said no, because they wanted human involved at every step. He also made a point of how clean and perfect they wanted the finished parts machined.
(Keep in mind I don't know the scale of his operation, or if this was for actual production, or how involved the 'talk' was, so on, so on...)
By this point this is hearsay, so remember your grain of salt. The overall point stuck with me so I will share.
A year or so ago was chatting with a semi-local machine shop owner who had talked to Toyota about making water pumps and another small machined part that I do not recall for the current Corolla. There was something like an 8 step process from start to finish; he could do it in 3 steps, with automation filling in the other 5 in between. Toyota said no, because they wanted human involved at every step. He also made a point of how clean and perfect they wanted the finished parts machined.
(Keep in mind I don't know the scale of his operation, or if this was for actual production, or how involved the 'talk' was, so on, so on...)
It's not just the 1FZ, I regularly see 5VZ's (3.4 V6) and 3RZ's (2.7 I4) with with 400,000+ miles on them. Even the 2UZ (4.7 V8) can be found with those numbers. Then there were those old Toyota ad's showing 2wd 22RE trucks with 800,000-1,000,000 miles on them. So it's really not Land Cruiser thing, it's a Toyota thing...
ktmracer01
SILVER Star
I'd say that it the engineering and simplicity of design of products, and I might be over stating myself on certain parts. But if you look at the overall design of the block, and the mechanics of it, it's quite simple ans straight forward. no pun intended. Now you start to look at all of the accessories that are installed on the motor ( water pump, alternator, fan clutch, AC, etc.) Those are the units that usually fail or have issues. The drive-train is the same way, very basic and straight forward, just made out of higher grade materials, or designed to withstand stresses that are likely to be applied.
I think Toyota's are purpose built vehicles. Thats why they last soo much longer in the fields that they are placed in. Heavier parts out of better materials. Heck yea. I love my Toyotas!!!
I think Toyota's are purpose built vehicles. Thats why they last soo much longer in the fields that they are placed in. Heavier parts out of better materials. Heck yea. I love my Toyotas!!!
My first 4wd was a 22re I had right at 265,000 miles of total abuse before my lil brother borrowed it to cross a pond twice. After that it had what I thought to be piston slap or rod knock not sure which but it sounded bad at 40 mph. My grandfather took the truck from me and still drives it about 10 miles a week on the farm and to the local gas station. It just won't die.
It's why I had no problem buying a rusted out 80 from Ohio for cheap
It's why I had no problem buying a rusted out 80 from Ohio for cheap
the F engines were industrial engines that were put into trucks.
Add, weight (very thick walls and nickel content), large capacity of oil and very low power output and it all adds up to longevity.
Add, weight (very thick walls and nickel content), large capacity of oil and very low power output and it all adds up to longevity.
Good point... I still hv a corolla AE92 from 1991, bought new. About 10yrs back, wifey drove the car to a grinding halt due to busted radiator hose. I thought, yeah, definitely fried.
1/2day later with new hose & coolant, and its been running well since
I decided to give it an overhaul on its 20th Annivesary last mnth
Runs like a gem... so there you go... only non-oem part in it is the air-con compressor The 90s were some kind of golden era for Toyota?
