What I learned about my truck playing on the ice today.

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Apr 30, 2009
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What I learned about my truck playing on the ice today. Do keep in mind I've only owned my first 4WD for all of 8 months. After 2 hours of playing in the ice and snow this morning I learned a lot. Well actually I didn't learn that much, but I had a good time. Here're my somewhat cynical observations with my 08 4Runner today for your entertainment or for anyone to correct me if my understanding about anything is wrong.

First off, traction control and stability control (VSC) work by killing the power when the wheels might spin. So today I learned that when on a sheet of ice these systems are very effective in assuring you will remain stuck and become strandad on the ice. So it's important to know the proper technique for using these systems: find the "off" switch, and press it. On mine, there is a secret trick. Press the "off" button and it turns off traction control; but, you have to hold it for 3 seconds before it turns the VSC off too. Those engineers thought they were sneaky hiding this, but I still found out about it. I haven't been able to see how to turn off the anti-locking brakes (I know, there likely ain't one :bang: ) so the doughnuts I did spinning on the smooth ice I found today weren't as tight as they could be. :eek:

Next, having "multi-mode" 4WD is better then all time 4WD because the fun comes from getting into trouble in 2WD, then bailing yourself out with 4WD. But if you're always in 4WD, well, gee, what's the challenge? :) This is a good reason to get the Sport trim which has multi-mode (2WD, 4Hi, 4Lo) vs the Limited's all-time hi/lo 4WD. Plus considering I can ride in 4WD with the diff unlocked all day I also get the joy of confusing people by telling them I have "full-time 4WD that's part-time", and being technically correct. And that's priceless. :D

I have a center diff with a lock, its a Torsen T-3. But my rear axle also has an auto limited slip diff. Oddly, it works (as indicated by the "Auto LSD" light coming on) only when I am in 2WD and turn off the traction control. I guess it's handy if you get stuck in 2WD and can't switch into 4WD and lock the center? Ok. Fair enough. But my question is, why can I not get the Auto LSD to turn on when I am in 4WD? Would it not work well with a center locking diff? Or maybe it does work but the "on" light just doesn't come on? I understand that LSD's work by either appliying the brakes to the spinning wheel (which shifts torque to the other wheel), or by viscous coupling in the actual diff. I am trying to research to see how it is in my 2008. I tend to think mine is brake-based since if it was the viscous coupling variety it would seem to always be on; especially since I understand that is what all-wheel-drive vehicles use (vs real 4WD) and you can't typically turn off AWD in vehicles with it.

So let's consult the owner's manual as it's certainly written in a way to easily answer all my questions (yeah, right). It says the "Auto LSD" works by using the traction control system. I guess that implies its brake-based as we thought. But then later it says in order to turn on the "Auto LSD" you need to turn off the traction control. Allrighty then. That's clear as mud, thanks. :bang:

And lastly, today we learned that commercial warehouse parks are the best places inside the perimeter to find parking lots with smooth ice, and steep icy drives to spin wheels and find ourselves sliding backwards and sideways on. :steer: No arrests and only one encounter with private security force was encountered in today's test driving. :D:D
 
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very interesting about your truck Phil. I was worried that you wrapped it around something as I was reading it. On a different note, my saab is the same way, as I learned nearly wrapping it around one of my brick mailboxes during the last snow storm, the TC and SC stop the car completely as I tried to run up my driveway. Somewhat dangerous I think. Oh well, now I have 150lbs of salt to melt the driveway when we have these types of issues. Just need to get a snow shovel.
So have you figured out how to lift your truck?
 
I thought the same thing, glad you didn't wrap it around a tree but it might've made for some entertaining pics. :D

but

Thinking about all that would give me a headache :flipoff2: here's my on/off 4wd button :flipoff2:

locking hub.webp
locking hub.webp
 
We had a fun time in the snow as well. Locking the center should shut off VSC right? Atleast on the 100 Series it does. The pictures were up north. The tree's 5 feet from the side of the road made me nervous, thankfully I didn't have to call dentmaster after the fun

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Yes, locking the diff shuts SC off, but I agree with pillguy that it seems kind of unsafe when it totally kills your engine for drivers who don't know whats going on.
When it first happened on the ice we had a couple weeks ago I thought my tranny went out :eek::eek:

And here's the only tree I hit. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3359631/Snow_branch.MOV
Wish I had some video of the sideways sliding down some truck loading ramps. That can give one the willies.

Here's a photo that kinda shows what a perfectly smooth ice rink I had.

And yes, I'm still working on a lift. :flipoff2:
smooth ice.webp
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We had similar experiences this weekend. I hate how it kills power when the tires start spinning, it takes the fun out of using 2WD on ice and the trail.

Also, I just got a Daystar kit but I haven't installed it yet. I bent/tore the rear portion of my front skid plate this weekend up near Jones Creek, and that 2.5" would have certainly helped. The made these things so damn low from the factory.

What are your plans for the 4R?

-Ryan
 
We had similar experiences this weekend. I hate how it kills power when the tires start spinning, it takes the fun out of using 2WD on ice and the trail.

Also, I just got a Daystar kit but I haven't installed it yet. I bent/tore the rear portion of my front skid plate this weekend up near Jones Creek, and that 2.5" would have certainly helped. The made these things so damn low from the factory.

What are your plans for the 4R?

-Ryan

Sounds like you're a "day late" with the "daystar" Ryan. Bummer. I've heard the stock skid plates are pretty cheap - is that your assessment? (I assume you damaged a stock one.)

No immediate major plans for mine right now. But after I make a fortune trading commodities it would be nice to get another daily commuter so I can abuse the 4R more.

I did recently come across a Truxx lift kit that claims to work well with the unique X-Reas suspension I have so I'm definitely going to look into that further.

Tires would be a good upgrade that I'll look into as I wear down the Duelers it came with.

And trading in the step-up rails for a set of step-up sliders is something I will consider too.

If I find a good deal on a good Radio/GPS combo thingy to replace the awful kludge Toyota/TomTom put in the Urban Runner I will certainly consider that.

I would like to find something good to stick on the roof that can better carry a kayak, windsurfing & snowboarding equipment, and the spare too.


You?
 
Sounds like you're a "day late" with the "daystar" Ryan. Bummer. I've heard the stock skid plates are pretty cheap - is that your assessment? (I assume you damaged a stock one.)

No immediate major plans for mine right now. But after I make a fortune trading commodities it would be nice to get another daily commuter so I can abuse the 4R more.

I did recently come across a Truxx lift kit that claims to work well with the unique X-Reas suspension I have so I'm definitely going to look into that further.

Tires would be a good upgrade that I'll look into as I wear down the Duelers it came with.

And trading in the step-up rails for a set of step-up sliders is something I will consider too.

If I find a good deal on a good Radio/GPS combo thingy to replace the awful kludge Toyota/TomTom put in the Urban Runner I will certainly consider that.

I would like to find something good to stick on the roof that can better carry a kayak, windsurfing & snowboarding equipment, and the spare too.


You?

I think the stock skids are pretty good, actually. Yes, they do bend, but they also protect what they are supposed to. They aren't as good as a BudBuilt or All-Pro, but I think they're pretty darn good for OEM protection. The part that I damaged is the rear extension piece of the front skid. It was basically plastic. Weak.

I've got the XREAS too. Most 4th Gen wheelers take out the XREAS but I want to keep mine for as long as possible. The Daystar kit, and most spacer kits, are compatible with the XREAS. The key is to properly disconnect the system before taking out the front struts.

I got Dueler AT Revos after 200 miles on the stock tires. 265/70/17. Well worth it!

I've got the step rails, but no plans to replace them. I've banged them a few times and scratched up the bottom of them a little bit, but I'm not looking to do any extreme rock crawling so the step bars are a better fit. I may take them off at some point and leave the rockers bare.

I've got Yakima mounts and crossbars if you're interested. I found them to be too loud on the highway. I drive a lot of hwy miles for work.

I'm getting my Daystar kit installed next Wednesday. No modification plans after that. I've got the 30k service coming up, so that will be the next focus.

If you haven't done them already, the WeatherTech floor mats are worth every penny.

There are some good 4Runner sites on the interwebs if you need direction.

RT
 
I think the stock skids are pretty good, actually. Yes, they do bend, but they also protect what they are supposed to. They aren't as good as a BudBuilt or All-Pro, but I think they're pretty darn good for OEM protection. The part that I damaged is the rear extension piece of the front skid. It was basically plastic. Weak.

I've got the XREAS too. Most 4th Gen wheelers take out the XREAS but I want to keep mine for as long as possible. The Daystar kit, and most spacer kits, are compatible with the XREAS. The key is to properly disconnect the system before taking out the front struts.

I got Dueler AT Revos after 200 miles on the stock tires. 265/70/17. Well worth it!

I've got the step rails, but no plans to replace them. I've banged them a few times and scratched up the bottom of them a little bit, but I'm not looking to do any extreme rock crawling so the step bars are a better fit. I may take them off at some point and leave the rockers bare.

I've got Yakima mounts and crossbars if you're interested. I found them to be too loud on the highway. I drive a lot of hwy miles for work.

I'm getting my Daystar kit installed next Wednesday. No modification plans after that. I've got the 30k service coming up, so that will be the next focus.

If you haven't done them already, the WeatherTech floor mats are worth every penny.

There are some good 4Runner sites on the interwebs if you need direction.

RT

RT,

Do you know if liftkit will affect warranty? Who's doing the install? Thanks for the comments re x-Reas.

Not sure if the Yakima crossbars are what I need, I have to research more, but if noise is your problem with them they do sell wind fairings specifically for that.

I got the Weatherteck floor liners immediately, and the window rain things too. I have the cargo shelf in the back so I can't fit a nice liner back there. I may get rid of that shelf, seems to be more hassle than any real benefit.

Oh, do you know why the "Auto LSD" only works in 2WD? Seems I can only get it on when in 2WD and pressing "VSC Off".


Phil
 
RT,

Do you know if liftkit will affect warranty? Who's doing the install? Thanks for the comments re x-Reas.

Not sure if the Yakima crossbars are what I need, I have to research more, but if noise is your problem with them they do sell wind fairings specifically for that.

I got the Weatherteck floor liners immediately, and the window rain things too. I have the cargo shelf in the back so I can't fit a nice liner back there. I may get rid of that shelf, seems to be more hassle than any real benefit.

Oh, do you know why the "Auto LSD" only works in 2WD? Seems I can only get it on when in 2WD and pressing "VSC Off".


Phil

Phil,

It will void the suspension warranty, yes. Southern Off Road is doing the install.

Yakima does make fairings.

I have the cargo shelf too, but I dont use it often. With the shelf down, the liner lays right over the top. Weathertech makes 2 liners for the cargo area though, one for the double decker (it goes under the shelf with it up) and one for without out (this one can lay over the shelf when laid down). Just lay it flat, I think removing it will be a hassle.

No. I'm still learning all of that stuff too. It's confusing.

More here: 4th Gen T4Rs - Toyota - 4Runner . org Forum
 
RT, as tkinze alludes, I also bent a part of my front skid plate over the weekend (among other things). Odd coincidence. Looks like it was some type of access panel on the plate. Haven't looked carefully at it yet.
 
RT, as tkinze alludes, I also bent a part of my front skid plate over the weekend (among other things). Odd coincidence. Looks like it was some type of access panel on the plate. Haven't looked carefully at it yet.

I wonder if it was the same spot :hillbilly:

I've been told that the part I broke is a windjammer or other airflow device :flipoff2::flipoff2:

Daystar kit goes on in the morn :clap:
 
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i think those skid plates are more designed to keep squirrels and other small animals out of the undercarriage.
 
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Just curious what made you decide to go w/ the Daystar lift?

Good looking truck. I love when people wheel new vehicles.
 
so you mean to tell me my skid plate won't help me float over mud like at durhamtown, and yes I was moving forward unlike morris mountain...:D:D
i think those skid plates are more designed to keep squirrels and other small animals out of the undercarriage.
 
i think those skid plates are more designed to keep squirrels and other small animals out of the undercarriage.

My factory skids have taken a few good blows and lots of scraping. Mostly againt smaller rocks but a few good dents and gouges are from larger rocks. The 100's skids are pretty good considering other oem stuff (checy,ford,dodge skidplates are plastic, really cheap thin metal, etc). In sure the 4RNR has good stuff from the factory.

If your doing any type of hardcore wheeling , duh, upgrade em. But ifyour messin round or mild wheeling oem Toyota skids are enough for a few good smacks. Mine are toast :mad:
 
Just curious what made you decide to go w/ the Daystar lift?

Price and design. I did NOT get the Easy Install Kit, so I have preload + top spacers in the front.
 
My factory skids have taken a few good blows and lots of scraping. Mostly againt smaller rocks but a few good dents and gouges are from larger rocks. The 100's skids are pretty good considering other oem stuff (checy,ford,dodge skidplates are plastic, really cheap thin metal, etc). In sure the 4RNR has good stuff from the factory.

If your doing any type of hardcore wheeling , duh, upgrade em. But ifyour messin round or mild wheeling oem Toyota skids are enough for a few good smacks. Mine are toast :mad:

+1. Toyota's OEM skids work very well compared to the others out there.
 

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