What comes close?

[MUDIMOND]

Here's how I see it:

1) Do you only need light offroading capabilities?
2) Do you need 8 seats?
3) Are you OK with a V6?
4) Do you need to tow something heavy?

If you can answer these questions, I'd highly look at the new 4Runner! It's one hell of a vehicle. In fact, the 4Runner has more leg room than the LC (I'm 6'1") and is also far more comfortable on the highway than my LC. The limited's suspension is pretty good for highway use.

JBHorne,

I get your point completely what I'm saying is: the brand new 4Runner cost almost the same as a slightly used LC200 so logically and since we both and any other intelligent person would prefer the LC what we are left with is;

A) which is better to keep?
B) which is better to get rid of?
C) which would have a better resale value, let's say 6 years from now?

Not sure about the resale value but I chose 6 years as a possible time where we will have a new LC model, the only time anyone should consider selling...

Thanks,
MD.

 

[patrickfinley]

These are both so close in all respects, these are essentially the #1 and #2 trucks in the Toyota lineup. Maintenance will be very similar, ease of selling and resale. You won't loose out with either of these. If you where trying to decide the financial benefit between a Range Rover and an LC200 that would be a different story.

I think you should check them both out and buy whichever you like best.

 

[planetalaska]

Not a very smart question in this forum but for general use, some light off roading and for maximum resale value, what would you guys go for of these two (similar price range);

A brand new 4Runner?
Or a 2010 (or any used) LC200?

If you can find a used 2010 LC with reasonable mileage in the same price range as a new 2011 4Runner, I'd go for the LC. The new Limited 4Runner is in the US$42K range, so it would be a real find if you can locate a 2010 LC for a similar price range.

I have both the LC and the 4Runner, but unlike JBHorne, my 4Runner is a 2008 4Runner V8 Limited. I used to love driving the 4Runner before I had the LC, but now, I cringe everytime I drive it.

► Alaska 2011 LC200 / Silver / 285-65-18 BFG All Terrain TA/KO ►

 

[planetalaska]

JBHorne,

any other intelligent person would prefer the LC what we are left with is;

A) which is better to keep?
B) which is better to get rid of?
C) which would have a better resale value, let's say 6 years from now?

For maintenance, the LC has a cartridge engine oil filter which I am not familiar with. Not sure if the new 4Runner has that type too, but this is something I'm afraid of changing myself. I have to bring my LC to the dealer instead of doing my oil changes myself.

What worries me 6 years from now is where gas prices are going to be. For resale, a low mpg LC might be very tough to get rid of compared to a higher mpg V6 4Runner at that time.

► Alaska 2011 LC200 / Silver / 285-65-18 BFG All Terrain TA/KO ►

 

[MUDIMOND]

Many thanks for your inputs,
I did some simple cost side by side comparison between a brand new 2011 4Runner Limited from Toyota Canada vs. a certified low mileage 2009 LC200 in New York and the difference doesn't seem that large as I know it.

Please see attached and let me know what you think and if there are hidden fees to consider.

Regards,
MD.

 

[MUDIMOND]

For maintenance, the LC has a cartridge engine oil filter which I am not familiar with. Not sure if the new 4Runner has that type too, but this is something I'm afraid of changing myself. I have to bring my LC to the dealer instead of doing my oil changes myself.

What worries me 6 years from now is where gas prices are going to be. For resale, a low mpg LC might be very tough to get rid of compared to a higher mpg V6 4Runner at that time.

► Alaska 2011 LC200 / Silver / 285-65-18 BFG All Terrain TA/KO ►

Planetalaska,
I saw your pictures, amazing, I have never seen such breathtaking pictures of Alaska, you made me want to visit it but not by an LC, not that brave on snow yet....
Thanks,
MD.

 

[JBHorne]

Many thanks for your inputs,
I did some simple cost side by side comparison between a brand new 2011 4Runner Limited from Toyota Canada vs. a certified low mileage 2009 LC200 in New York and the difference doesn't seem that large as I know it.

Please see attached and let me know what you think and if there are hidden fees to consider.

Regards,
MD.

Holy crap that price on the 4Runner is RIDICULOUS ! It says it's a "2011 4RUNNER SR5 V6 LIMITED" which is impossible. There are two trims, SR5 and LIMITED, but never on the same vehicle. Something is very wrong...

I've never bought a vehicle a penny over invoice. The 2010 4Runner Limited 4x4 with options came in around $36K I believe with options. So yeah, you are still talking about a $20K difference between a new 4Runner LIMITED (even greater difference for an SR5) and a used LC200.

Keep in mind that invoice on a new LC is around $60K, so that's only a savings of $2K for a used vehicle. Which also means, new for new, the LC has $24K on the 4Runner.

Keep shopping

 

[MUDIMOND]

Holy crap that price on the 4Runner is RIDICULOUS ! It says it's a "2011 4RUNNER SR5 V6 LIMITED" which is impossible. There are two trims, SR5 and LIMITED, but never on the same vehicle. Something is very wrong...

I've never bought a vehicle a penny over invoice. The 2010 4Runner Limited 4x4 with options came in around $36K I believe with options. So yeah, you are still talking about a $20K difference between a new 4Runner LIMITED (even greater difference for an SR5) and a used LC200.

Keep in mind that invoice on a new LC is around $60K, so that's only a savings of $2K for a used vehicle. Which also means, new for new, the LC has $24K on the 4Runner.

Keep shopping

Hi JBHorne,
Many thanks, one of the many advantages of discussions on this forum..
Since I'm new to this market I'm going to assume the difference is due to the fact that these are in two countries, LC in the US and 4R in Canada, although both dollars are on the same level, no?
What do you mean by invoice prices, aren't all prices invoice, including the ones advertised online?
As you can see, this quotation is from the official Toyota Canada website, I think msrp, are prices different on the ground normally?
BTW all of the 2011 LC I have seen online were priced at around 77,000, what am I doing wrong?
Would appreciate your thought on this.
MD.

 

[planetalaska]

Planetalaska,
I saw your pictures, amazing, I have never seen such breathtaking pictures of Alaska, you made me want to visit it but not by an LC, not that brave on snow yet....
Thanks,
MD.

Thanks for watching my pictures. And, by the way, I'm not brave, I'm reckless...

 

[planetalaska]

Since I'm new to this market I'm going to assume the difference is due to the fact that these are in two countries, LC in the US and 4R in Canada, although both dollars are on the same level, no?
What do you mean by invoice prices, aren't all prices invoice, including the ones advertised online?
As you can see, this quotation is from the official Toyota Canada website, I think msrp, are prices different on the ground normally?
BTW all of the 2011 LC I have seen online were priced at around 77,000, what am I doing wrong?

In the US, you can get a fairly loaded 2011 4Runner Limited for approx $40K MSRP, and a loaded 2011 LC with Premium package for approx $75K MSRP. For somebody in the US, Canadian prices look horrible due to the unfavorable exchange rate. Only a few years ago, 1 US$ = 1.5 CAN$. Not anymore....

Have you looked at importing a used 2010 4Runner from US to Canada?

Here is some info about Invoice price versus MSRP:
Car Invoice Price - How and where to find vehicle invoice prices


► Alaska 2011 LC200 / Silver / 285-65-18 BFG All Terrain TA/KO ►

 

[JBHorne]

In the US, you can get a fairly loaded 2011 4Runner Limited for approx $40K MSRP, and a loaded 2011 LC with Premium package for approx $75K MSRP. For somebody in the US, Canadian prices look horrible due to the unfavorable exchange rate. Only a few years ago, 1 US$ = 1.5 CAN$. Not anymore....

Have you looked at importing a used 2010 4Runner from US to Canada?

Here is some info about Invoice price versus MSRP:
Car Invoice Price - How and where to find vehicle invoice prices


► Alaska 2011 LC200 / Silver / 285-65-18 BFG All Terrain TA/KO ►

Could you not just buy it in the US and drive it across the border? Do you have someone with a US address that it could stay registered under?

 

[MUDIMOND]

Could you not just buy it in the US and drive it across the border? Do you have someone with a US address that it could stay registered under?

In the US, you can get a fairly loaded 2011 4Runner Limited for approx $40K MSRP, and a loaded 2011 LC with Premium package for approx $75K MSRP. For somebody in the US, Canadian prices look horrible due to the unfavorable exchange rate. Only a few years ago, 1 US$ = 1.5 CAN$. Not anymore....

Have you looked at importing a used 2010 4Runner from US to Canada?

Here is some info about Invoice price versus MSRP:
Car Invoice Price - How and where to find vehicle invoice prices




► Alaska 2011 LC200 / Silver / 285-65-18 BFG All Terrain TA/KO ►

planetalaska,
Thanks for the info. I will look into it.
MD.

 

[MUDIMOND]

Could you not just buy it in the US and drive it across the border? Do you have someone with a US address that it could stay registered under?

JBHorne,
I guess this may be an option.
Forgot to mention an important fact, I'm actually entitled to Duty & Tax Free import once I have owned the vehicle prior to entering Canada, in other words I can't order a vehicle and benefit from this act, I need to own it first then possibly ship it to Canada..
I'm sure this is going to further tickle our brains into imagining the possibilities..
Maybe finding the best and cheapest new LC in the world is where I need to start with..
MD.

 

[MUDIMOND]

Holy **** that price on the 4Runner is RIDICULOUS ! It says it's a "2011 4RUNNER SR5 V6 LIMITED" which is impossible. There are two trims, SR5 and LIMITED, but never on the same vehicle. Something is very wrong...

I've never bought a vehicle a penny over invoice. The 2010 4Runner Limited 4x4 with options came in around $36K I believe with options. So yeah, you are still talking about a $20K difference between a new 4Runner LIMITED (even greater difference for an SR5) and a used LC200.

Keep in mind that invoice on a new LC is around $60K, so that's only a savings of $2K for a used vehicle. Which also means, new for new, the LC has $24K on the 4Runner.

Keep shopping

JBHorne,

Now that you mentioned the different trims, I verified again and it is correct, they have both on one, maybe different branding for Canada!
Was the US$36k you paid for a brand new 2010 4Runner with options, all inclusive?
How do you negotiate for the invoice price vs other advertised prices, on what basis please?

For example, I found one 2009 LC200 on cars.com for $69,995, the deference is very large, how can you tell the invoice price on it and how do you negotiate for it?

Conclusion; regardless of new/used, brand or otherwise, it is way more economical to purchase a vehicle from the USA and drive it through to Canada, do you agree?

I'm trying to -at least- settle on the market and then worry about the other aspects.
Thanks and regards,
MD.

 

[patrickfinley]

Was the US$36k you paid for a brand new 2010 4Runner with options, all inclusive?
How do you negotiate for the invoice price vs other advertised prices, on what basis please?

For example, I found one 2009 LC200 on cars.com for $69,995, the deference is very large, how can you tell the invoice price on it and how do you negotiate for it?

MD.

I would think 36k does not get you a very well decked out 2010 4Runner.

The LC200's have 2 option packages available in the US. However, 90% of them out there have opted for the extra package. So really you're dealing with one price new.

As far as the fair price for a vehicle, check out Edmunds, NADA, and KBB. They will all have different values but the true value lies somewhere in the middle. You can even print all 3 of these out and bring them in as ammo in your price negotiating. Edmunds is usually low and KBB very high.

 

[MUDIMOND]

I would think 36k does not get you a very well decked out 2010 4Runner.

The LC200's have 2 option packages available in the US. However, 90% of them out there have opted for the extra package. So really you're dealing with one price new.

As far as the fair price for a vehicle, check out Edmunds, NADA, and KBB. They will all have different values but the true value lies somewhere in the middle. You can even print all 3 of these out and bring them in as ammo in your price negotiating. Edmunds is usually low and KBB very high.

Thanks Patrick,
I understand but how do you tell a dealer who have the LC advertised for 75k "your invoice price should be 60k" for example, is this usual in north America?

Regards,
MD

 

[uzj100]

2011 Toyota Land Cruiser 4dr 4WD - New Car Price Report

Yes, you can absolutely discuss invoice with the dealer. (Especially with gas at $4 a gallon)

 

[MUDIMOND]

uzj100,
On both used and new?
MD

 

[uzj100]

There is not really an invoice on a used car, just a trade in value.

Find out the approximate trade in value from KBB or NADA. This will be about what the dealer paid for the car and then work from there. Dealers make most of their money on used cars.

 

[JBHorne]

I would think 36k does not get you a very well decked out 2010 4Runner.

The LC200's have 2 option packages available in the US. However, 90% of them out there have opted for the extra package. So really you're dealing with one price new.

As far as the fair price for a vehicle, check out Edmunds, NADA, and KBB. They will all have different values but the true value lies somewhere in the middle. You can even print all 3 of these out and bring them in as ammo in your price negotiating. Edmunds is usually low and KBB very high.

I actually did get my 2011 4Runner Limited 4x4 with every option available for $36K, including dealer options such as ceramic window tint and remote start

I got my 2006 LC200 for $64K, every option including dealer options such as tint, side molding and remote start. I believe that was $10-12K less than MSRP.

I've bought 5 vehicles all at dealer invoice or less (all fully loaded) (2005 Cadillac SRX, 2005 Lexus RX330, 2006 Ford Explorer, 2008 Toyota LandCruiser, 2011 Toyota 4Runner).

When gas is $4 a gallon, cash talks. Haggling is an art. It takes experience and a strong understanding of the market. Understanding the rebate options available, manufacture incentives (both dealer to customer and manufacturer to dealer), holdbacks, etc. helps greatly. Also, many dealers get kickbacks for a quantity margin. If they are close to the next bracket, they will sell at invoice just to guarantee the kickback. The trick is also talking to the right person up front. Know what the dealership has on their lot before walking in the door. If you have to order, you'll never talk invoice. It greatly matters how long a vehicle has been on the lot. If you know the exact VIN of the vehicle you want, try walking into the dealership with a wad of cash for the invoice price (which you already know because you looked it up) and see if they'll accept. If not, walk and leave your number. Wait 2 weeks -- if they haven't moved the vehicle by then, they'll call

Oh, and DON'T EVER TAKE YOUR WIFE. The last thing you need is for her to make a comment such as "I love this car and want it so bad!". Sales people KNOW that men will do just able anything the please their wife. This means that they know she wants that car and does not want to let it go. This will raise the price

Instead, have about 3 vehicles from different dealerships that you are looking at. Even if you KNOW you really only want one of them, talk the talk and pretend to walk the walk. Along these same lines, you never can show that you are overly excited about a specific model. I bought my '11 4Runner sight unseen. It was sitting in the showroom. The sales guy wants to know what you think about it, but don't let him. In fact, don't even walk over to the car and look at it or test drive it. If you know you want it, just sit down and talk numbers. Tell him your time is way to valuable and you want this car at invoice or you'll walk. This shows that you are serious and ready and aren't going to tolerate any games.

Hope this helps a tad