What are the options for castor correction for 2.5" lift (not 4",6",etc.)? (1 Viewer)

[Beej]

Hey folks,

Looking for castor correction for a 2.5 inch lift (TJM 50mm progressive coils). I'm reading that the bushings are not good but this is all from guys who are doing big lifts. Is there a difference on a moderate 2.5 inch lift? There's also the drop brackets, which people seem to be happy with but MAF has 2 inch and 3 inch but no 2.5 inch?

I have searched the forum but its not getting any clearer; mostly because I'm not able to tell what works for moderate lift.

I want to buy the drop brackets but I'm not sure whether to buy 2" or 3" or if I'm even barking up the right tree.

Help?

Thanks in advance for any replies.

-- Beej

 

[ajax1]

Drop brackets or bushings, if you get the brackets go 3 inch better to have more then less , factory is 2-4 degrees

 

[Toyote]

Interested in this too; I had similar difficulty navigating all the options for the same lift (TJM, 50mm). I ended up using Slee's bushings, which have worked really well.

I've had those in for 100k miles and I have no bad reviews. That said, I've always wondered about how I could go back to OEM Toyota rubber bushings (vs the urethane or whatever material Slees are), and if those would provide an even better feel-- along with obviously some caster correction plates, a la 80 Series Caster Correction Plates

I simply am unclear on if those correction plates are overkill for a moderate lift like ours or not. So, let's find out.

 

[Beej]

Is it correct that 1 inch in lift corresponds to 1 degree in castor correction needed?

 

[canman]

Been driving many years on 2.5" lift with no castor correction. Purchased some castor correction bushings at the time I purchased the lift but decided not to use them as they reduce flex and therefore articulation. After the springs were installed I went to 0 degress castor which made for lots of steering correction, but I got used to it. That was further complicated when I went to 315 Toyo MTs and with the OEM steelies, the combined weight was over 100 lbs! Later, I installed Slee 1" spacers, because the springs began to sag, and the stink bug look was getting worse. But with the addition of my ARB bumper and winch, the steering control was much better with less "twitching".

 

[Beej]

@canman I feel like you are in the minority here just sort of dealing with it. Is your rig expressly meant for wheeling? Mine does some DD duty (4 months out of the year)

 

[canman]

Not a DD anymore, but have put over 100,000 miles on it since I purchased it 8 yrs ago.

 

[Heckraiser]

I have been asking the same question recently and didn't get an overwhelming response, but a few people did chime in and say that Slee caster correction plates are good with a 2.5" lift.

I look at it this way, the more caster the better, from a behind-the-wheel standpoint, so I don't mind over-correcting. However, using the plates on a 2.5" lift poses the same threat of driveline vibrations as using the plates on a 4" lift--meaning you might be fine or you might get vibes. With a couple people chiming in and saying they used plates with a 2.5" lift and no vibes, I'm thinking I'm just going to go ahead and try it--probably replace my u-joints at the same time since they're ancient and wont take grease anymore.

FWIW, I have the OME yellow bushings currently and they are shot (many miles) but never adequately corrected caster for my current 850/863 lift (stinkbug).

:edit: by the way, which vendor did you find the 50mm progressives at? Did metaltech still have them?

 

[paladek]

Hi
I have the OME 2.5 lift with 295/75 KO2 on my TRD OEM supercharged LX450 and no castor correction....
I had some vibrations starting at around 120kmh (that's around 74.5 mph) so after doing my knuckle kit install (OEM toyota, with Koyo bearings...) I decided to replace the control arms bushings as well, so OEM Toyota got installed....
After that no more vibrations whatsoever, or any other kind of problems (steering or suspensions...)..... Feels very strong and planted even at 145 kmh (90mph)....not that I frequently drive that speed but it's good to know your truck limits.....
So for me with the 2.5 lift there is no need for castor correction....

 

[canman]

I'm no expert, but I believe castor plates are the only way to go other than moving everything on the axle and/or cutting the knuckle "spheres" and rotating them. However, keep in mind the springs will sag within a year and if you add any weight up front like an ARB with a winch, the amount of castor you initially lost will come back somewhat. I find my ride now perfectly acceptable after installing the ARB and winch.

 

[Beej]

I have been asking the same question recently and didn't get an overwhelming response, but a few people did chime in and say that Slee caster correction plates are good with a 2.5" lift.

I look at it this way, the more caster the better, from a behind-the-wheel standpoint, so I don't mind over-correcting. However, using the plates on a 2.5" lift poses the same threat of driveline vibrations as using the plates on a 4" lift--meaning you might be fine or you might get vibes. With a couple people chiming in and saying they used plates with a 2.5" lift and no vibes, I'm thinking I'm just going to go ahead and try it--probably replace my u-joints at the same time since they're ancient and wont take grease anymore.

FWIW, I have the OME yellow bushings currently and they are shot (many miles) but never adequately corrected caster for my current 850/863 lift (stinkbug).

:edit: by the way, which vendor did you find the 50mm progressives at? Did metaltech still have them?

There a big difference of opinion on the topic, it would seem. I thought it was just from the guys with bigger lifts but perhaps I was incorrect. Personally, I'd like to keep my alignment within spec wether or not if "feels fine" but I'm a wuss so go figure.

Another forum member saw the thread and is going to sell me his rear coils; I'll find the fronts somewhere. Hopefully. Eventually.

 

[kowalski]

I was in this boat for a few months, and I tried to just "Make do" but the thought of my wife driving it made me scared. My friend convinced me to get the slee plates.

It drives like a different vehicle now. I highly recommend the slee plates, it makes a world of a difference. I was at -.5° now I'm at +3°. No vibrations.

I believe my height works out to something like a 2" lift.

 

[AutoCraft Aus]

2 deg bush in the back hole std front bushes and washer mod

Anyone who says an 80 drives ok with a lift and no caster correction has no feel for whats going on, or what caster does apart from making the truck track straight.

 

[Beej]

2 deg bush in the back hole std front bushes and washer mod

Anyone who says an 80 drives ok with a lift and no caster correction has no feel for whats going on, or what caster does apart from making the truck track straight.

Source for washer mod? Heard whispers but search gave nothing definitive.

 

[AutoCraft Aus]

Slot the front hole down 1/2" and weld washer on.

We also get our extra from offfset bearings which also help with dialing in neg camber as well for bigger tyres.

 

[zapatius]

I did the TJM 2.5 degree RUBBER caster bushings and I have been very happy with them. I just drove the truck almost 5000 miles at speeds up to 80 and had no steering issues.

 

[eldotcruiser]

I did an OME heavy 2.5 inch lift that ended up being about 3.5 inches on my underweight truck. In the 2 years since then, I've tried:
- Caster bushings (2*) brought me to about +0.5-1* on each side, no driveshaft vibes but very jumpy and uncomfortable at highway speeds
- Caster plates (5*) brought me to about +4-4.5* which made for straight driving and great return to center, but I thought the drive shaft was about to shoot out from under the truck every time I let off the gas
- MAF drop brackets (4").. comfortable to drive, although my caster feels less than ideal (not measured yet), and very minimal grinding.. I figure once I get bumpers everything will level out nice.. if not, I'll washer mod it to a final position

I think the drop brackets are the best solution as they push the axle forward while rotating back toward stock, whereas plates and bushings just rotate the axle, leading to vibrations and other issues. You should measure center of wheel to fender flare to see how much lift you've actually gotten (I've read that stock is about 19-20") before deciding what size drop bracket to buy, if you go this route.

The lcool link for washer mod:
http://www.lcool.org/technical/80_series/caster_mods.html

From Slee's site, you lose about 1.7* for every inch of lift (diagram below from off-road.com article):
Slee - Lift Size vs Tire Size - Slee (Toyota 80 Series Land Cruiser)
Old Man Emu Caster Correction Review

 

[mtnzorro]

Here's my experience with the TJM 50mm, along with where I've ended up. Originally I had them with the 2in drop brackets, and replaced my stock control arm bushings with the OEM one's, which was a big upgrade over initially driving around without caster correction. I really wasn't very happy with the way it handled overall though--turn radius wasn't great, unstable and top heavy, hydroplaned a lot, erratic braking pull, tracking every rut in the road, and didn't feel anything close to the stock setup. It slowly started to bug me more and more. I upgraded my front shocks to radflo, I put the metaltech rear uppers and lowers on, I got new tie rod ends, etc. When I did the tie rod ends, I had the truck aligned, and I was at like a 1.3 pos caster.

At that point I started digging into the forum some, as that was obviously out of spec from factory recommended numbers, and I was kind of wondering the same thing that you are. After chatting with some members who'd had a similar experience, I ended up having the slee plates put on, and they made a drastic difference in the way that it drove and handled. It wasn't completely back to stock, but it was a big step up from the drop brackets. Caster went up to like 3.6 pos.

I did have some driveline noise at that point, which went away when I pulled my front shaft. I eventually decided to part time it, although that was probably overkill, as it was time for new u-joints anyway. I did that in the rear and it took care of the little vibes i had there.

My wife has always hated the lift, and we drive the cruiser so much, that I finally agreed to go back to stock height. I put a set of Old man emu stock height heavies on last weekend, removed the slee plates, and the cruiser drives like a whole new vehicle. I know for a lot of you, your use of the rig necessitates the lift, but the OME stock heavies drive fantastic on the road, are progressive springs, and I can still armor the thing down. And no caster correction to fool with. Braking, turn radius, general smoothing out of the ride, cornering, i mean pretty much everything is 100% better now. I wish I'd switched to these a couple of years ago honestly.

Plates were better than the 2in drop brackets, but stock height Emu springs wins the day for how I use my cruiser. Just like tire size, I know everyone will have a different opinion and experience on this. Hope this helps.

 

[Jroach321]

Here's my experience with the TJM 50mm, along with where I've ended up. Originally I had them with the 2in drop brackets, and replaced my stock control arm bushings with the OEM one's, which was a big upgrade over initially driving around without caster correction. I really wasn't very happy with the way it handled overall though--turn radius wasn't great, unstable and top heavy, hydroplaned a lot, erratic braking pull, tracking every rut in the road, and didn't feel anything close to the stock setup. It slowly started to bug me more and more. I upgraded my front shocks to radflo, I put the metaltech rear uppers and lowers on, I got new tie rod ends, etc. When I did the tie rod ends, I had the truck aligned, and I was at like a 1.3 pos caster.

At that point I started digging into the forum some, as that was obviously out of spec from factory recommended numbers, and I was kind of wondering the same thing that you are. After chatting with some members who'd had a similar experience, I ended up having the slee plates put on, and they made a drastic difference in the way that it drove and handled. It wasn't completely back to stock, but it was a big step up from the drop brackets. Caster went up to like 3.6 pos.

I did have some driveline noise at that point, which went away when I pulled my front shaft. I eventually decided to part time it, although that was probably overkill, as it was time for new u-joints anyway. I did that in the rear and it took care of the little vibes i had there.

My wife has always hated the lift, and we drive the cruiser so much, that I finally agreed to go back to stock height. I put a set of Old man emu stock height heavies on last weekend, removed the slee plates, and the cruiser drives like a whole new vehicle. I know for a lot of you, your use of the rig necessitates the lift, but the OME stock heavies drive fantastic on the road, are progressive springs, and I can still armor the thing down. And no caster correction to fool with. Braking, turn radius, general smoothing out of the ride, cornering, i mean pretty much everything is 100% better now. I wish I'd switched to these a couple of years ago honestly.

Plates were better than the 2in drop brackets, but stock height Emu springs wins the day for how I use my cruiser. Just like tire size, I know everyone will have a different opinion and experience on this. Hope this helps.

This is the route I'm taking. Heavies and a hammer to the pinch welds. Lower the bumps if I have to.

 

[Dragos80]

I am considering the same setup, TJM progressive 50mm. I remember reading somewhere here on the forum a 1.6* caster correction is needed for ever inch of lift. This theory almost corresponds to the picture posted above, although it seems more correction is needed (1.7* - 1.8* per 1 inch of lift). Some people say more correction is better.

@Beej . 50mm is actually 2" not 2.5".
Did you get the new suspension? Installed it?