Weird Electrical Issue - Help Required Please (1 Viewer)

Spudman

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Hi everyone.

I have this weird electrical issue with my 60 and hopefully I'll explain it correctly so I can workout what's causing it :bang:

Now if I leave my car overnight and press the remote in the morning there is not enough power in the central locking to open the doors, so I have to open the drivers door with the key.

I have fitted the aftermarket relays to the central locking and after I've driven around for 15 minutes, the doors will open and close fine and the door locks nearly shoot out of the doors.

So I get in the car and start it, it starts straight away with no effort, yet the alternator volt gauge only reads around 7 to 8 volts, 15 minutes later it hits between 13-14 volts and all is good.

I don't think it is the battery as that holds it's charge and doesn't drop when I start the car, I also don't think it is the alternator as that is charging both batteries and starts first time even if left for a couple of days.

So I'm thinking/hoping that somewhere there is a relay, regulator or something between the alternator and central locking power etc. that is not working as it should.

Not sure if I'm on the right track or way off in the bush lost, so I'd appreciate any help to solve this one.

Thanks Spudman
 
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Hi spudman,

How do you feed the remote doorlock relays?.I mean where is or should the +12V come from when the car is parked, and you want to open the doors?Where is the +12V connected into the original wiring?
Give me some clues...
Has it always been like that since you installed the remote.?
What happens when you get in the truck ,start it ,and then you press the remote door lock OPEN.Is the charging voltage low because the door locks are still activated and trying to open all doors??
 
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Spudman

Addicted to 60's
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Hi spudman,

How do you feed the remote doorlock relays?.I mean where is or should the +12V come from when the car is parked, and you want to open the doors?Where is the +12V connected into the original wiring?
Give me some clues...
Has it always been like that since you installed the remote.?
What happens when you get in the truck ,start it ,and then you press the remote door lock OPEN.Is the charging voltage low because the door locks are still activated and trying to open all doors??
Hi Sved

The wiring is all original at the door locks so I think the power comes from the main battery.
When I start the car and then hit the remote about a minute or so later all the doors work fine open and close.
When I activated it all for the first time everything worked super quick then gradually slowed down, I recently checked all the wiring and re soldered all the joints and it worked perfectly again for a while and then went back to this.

When I installed the OEM locks the only part missing was the part from the drivers b pillar to the dash so I took the OEM wiring from another truck and used that.

Hope that helps
 

Crick60

Mr Crick
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Does your alarm have a volt sense function you can turn on?

We need a few more clues...maybe take a voltage reading at your battery before you lock it up of a arvo and then again in morning before you start it up.

I had an AM alarm in an older 60 that used to vampire through the LED via a dodge earth that was shunting a path to nowhere but I also had a voltage sense on the alarm set at 11.5v so the alarm would go off every time which help me troubleshoot.
 

Spudman

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Does your alarm have a volt sense function you can turn on?

We need a few more clues...maybe take a voltage reading at your battery before you lock it up of a arvo and then again in morning before you start it up.

I had an AM alarm in an older 60 that used to vampire through the LED via a dodge earth that was shunting a path to nowhere but I also had a voltage sense on the alarm set at 11.5v so the alarm would go off every time which help me troubleshoot.
Nah no volt sense function.

I'll take a reading of those battery volts tonight and again in the morning and post them up.

When the engine is turned off what allows power to the door locks, head lights, horn etc.
 
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Spud, it could be a bad ground connection from the body to the -12v battery pole.
The truck starts normal so the ground path from the starter to the battery is ok.
But the ground connections for the doorlocks and many more electrical items are connected together under the A-Pillar(left side).And doorlocks draw a large amount AMPS even if it's just for a short second.
Just connect a jumper cable from there to the -12v battery pole and test if it makes difference.Also check the ground cable from the bat minus to the body.It couples up with the ground strap which connects the enginebody to ground.
 

Spudman

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Spud, it could be a bad ground connection from the body to the -12v battery pole.
The truck starts normal so the ground path from the starter to the battery is ok.
But the ground connections for the doorlocks and many more electrical items are connected together under the A-Pillar(left side).And doorlocks draw a large amount AMPS even if it's just for a short second.
Just connect a jumper cable from there to the -12v battery pole and test if it makes difference.Also check the ground cable from the bat minus to the body.It couples up with the ground strap which connects the enginebody to ground.
Thanks Sved

I will give all of these attention tomorrow and report back
 
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Hey Spud,

Have you tried resetting the circuit breaker (see page BE-4 in "1984-chassis-body FSM")?

Also, found this thread that might be relevant, although might not completely identify the problem behind that symptom:

https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/hj61rg-back-door-locking.785380/page-2

Circuit Breaker Reset Instructions_BE-4 1984-chassis-body.jpg
 
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The door lock relays are located behind the PS (Australian PS) rear cargo area panel, see image below (from page BE-12 1984-chassis-body).

I didn't see a circuit breaker specifically for the automatic door lock system, but there probably is one a more general one...maybe...?

Passenger and Luggage Compartment Switches and Relays_BE-12 1984-chassis-body.jpg
 
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Instructions for testing the Door Lock System (relays and solenoid) 60 series as per pages BE-54-55 "1984-chassis-body" FSM

Door Lock Control System Test Instructions 60 series_BE-54 1984-chassis-body.jpg


Door Lock Control System Test Instructions 60 series_BE-55 1984-chassis-body.jpg
 
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From looking at the schematic above of the Door Lock System, I see that each door has a solenoid (to operate the the power locks - solenoid takes electrical signal and transduces it into a mechanical reality...).

The image only shows 2 Door Lock Relays (you can confirm this by checking your vehicle).

If you haven't already done so, maybe check each of those components as per testing instructions above (and clean and refasten grounds).

And although the Door Lock setup isn't the same as the Power Window setup, this fellow figured out by adding a relay to each of the power window switches he was able to solve the problems with the power windows...I'm just wondering why the Door Lock System only has two relays....maybe on is wired to just open the Driver's door, and the other operates all 5...and if this is the case, would it be possible to wire in a relay for each of the 4 door locks and have them still work together as in the second scenario?? And might that solve the problem???

https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/power-windows-problems-and-fixes.815634/#post-9328868
 
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According to the wiring diagram (see "1984-chassis-body" FSM), the Door Lock system and the Charging system share a common fusible link at the battery (circuit labeled 'B' on wiring diagram).

The Charging system appears to have it's own grounds.

The Door Lock system shares a common ground 'c' which keys out to be located under the 'left front pillar'.

Door Lock Wiring Diagram 60 series 1984-chassis-body.jpg


Charging System Wiring Diagram 60 series 1984-chassis-body.jpg


Door Lock Wiring Diagram Grounds 60 series 1984-chassis-body.jpg
 

Crick60

Mr Crick
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I'm pretty sure the door relays are the 2 wire type and Toyota only stocked a few different variants for QC and they selected 2 relays running 2 wires each with a common current rating because that way you have some redundancy, you're not running them at full rated current and they're off the shelf.

Full mud points for the research!
It seems every time I read through a new thread you've answered everything before I can chime in, most the time I end up with a "what he said ^^^" comment :D
 
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I'm pretty sure the door relays are the 2 wire type and Toyota only stocked a few different variants for QC and they selected 2 relays running 2 wires each with a common current rating because that way you have some redundancy, you're not running them at full rated current and they're off the shelf.

Full mud points for the research!
It seems every time I read through a new thread you've answered everything before I can chime in, most the time I end up with a "what he said ^^^" comment :D

HA! My bad, Crick. Just trying to add to the conversation...if you notice, I didn't really have any great suggestions on this one...mostly because, after looking at the wiring diagram for the Door Locks, I'm having a difficult time understanding how the two relays work off the switch. Looks kinda like a 3-way switch.
But I think one relay is wired for only the driver's door, and the other relay works for all the doors...

And, if there is a problem in either the Charging System or the Door Lock system, how does that explain the symptoms he's describing? From what Spud's describing (weak actuation of the solenoids and low voltage readings on the alternator at start-up), I'm wondering if there might be a built up charge somewhere.

But I guess we'll know more when Spud measures the battery voltage at night and in the morning...
 

Crick60

Mr Crick
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I just looked at that control diagram, the 2 relays are for lock and unlock, one controls the negative path and the other the positive path, one relay is open while the other is closed to allow a directional path for current to flow.
The switch is the main lock/unlock switch on the drivers door, all locks run off one relay which is why if you add a relay for each lock or window (if it's the same circuit) it will dramatically improve it's operation because the relay doesn't have to load share over every actuator coil.

I really should have a look at these circuits more often, they're quite elegant.
 
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OOHH....I think there is a Door Lock Circuit Breaker...unless I'm reading the wiring diagram incorrectly...but I didn't see one on the image above that identifies where the components of the system are...a conundrum...Spud will have to go hunt for this one...

Door Lock Wiring Diagram_CB 60 series 1984-chassis-body.jpg
 

Crick60

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Yep that's the notorious one that always knocks out your doors for no good reason. It's directly above your right knee when you are seated in the drivers seat.
I don't think that will be it.

I think this will be a process of elimination method, I'd start with disconnecting the alarm and compare readings overnight.
 
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Crick, I think I understand how the system works...correct my logic if it's wrong...

There are two leads from the 12V+ battery:
1) line 'R' that leads to the Door Lock Control Switch
2) line 'G-L' that leads to each of the 2 Door Lock Relays (connecting at the switch side of the relays)

The switch on the relay closes when current passes through the inductor side of the relay in the correct direction.

The direction of the current is controlled through the Door Lock Control Switch.

If the switch is turned to the 'Lock' position, current from 'R' flows first through each of the door lock solenoids (from left to right) actuating the doors to lock, then goes back up into the switch and grounds through the switch.
It also passes through the inductor on the bottom relay as it continues towards ground...
...activating the rear door solenoid to lock by closing the relay switch and allowing it to draw 12V+ from line 'G-L'...

If the switch is turned to the 'Unlock' position, current from 'R' flows on the right side of the solenoids to the left actuating the doors to open, then also goes back up into the switch and grounds through the switch.
It also passed through the inductor on the top relay as it continues towards ground...
...activating the rear door solenoid to open by closing the relay switch allowing it to draw 12V+ from line 'G-L'..

EDIT: Just noticed that this is a 24V+ system, so I'm assuming that those 12V+ above should be 24V+??
 
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Yep that's the notorious one that always knocks out your doors for no good reason. It's directly above your right knee when you are seated in the drivers seat.

FJ60 USA models don't have power locks!! (or power doors... or power _____)...we're not that fancy...but the FJ62 USA models do...they are that fancy...
 

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