WEBER VS OEM: The Facts

[jb welda]

>EPA region 9 http://www.epa.gov/Region9/

thats fed epa, i work for cal epa.

what do i do? i make sure no one can have any fun anymore.

not really.

i am a system analyst for the state water resources control board. we (not me actually, as i mentioned im a computer nerd) we find and fine dischargers of pollution into water bodies and make them pay. thats why we are the "environmental payment agency". you can do whatever you want as long as you pay. that seems to be our motto.

anyway, i hate the epa too, besides the fact they butter my bread. i do have fun with my business card sometimes though.

one love
jah bill

 

[kulangot]

if by "lucas" you mean the "prince of darkness", in my somewhat considerable experience with british car electrics ive come to the conclusion that most "electrical problems" come from a worn out wiring harness. at least thats been what ive found...replace the harness and everything works.

im unsure what the "region 9" reference youre making refers to...

ps in new guinea there are plenty of land cruisers. most are rusting away by the side of the road. the road the land rovers drive on every day.

one love
jah bill

All right, now you really have lost all credibility!

Land Rovers are only more popular in countries that were recently held by the Brits as Colonies and even then not always such as the case as in Australia where the Cruiser is preferred hand down. Papua New Guinea was formerly British New Guinea and is a good example of this patronage to the homeland as is also common in African colonies of the queen.

As far as the electrical and mechanicals, you could not be more incorrect. On my 97 D90 the computer system was called GEM - "GENERIC Engine management". A total piece o junk that was designed by the brits to be used in anything, cars, airplanes, boats, etc. You could pour a glass of water on the under hood component and there was not much to keep the water out. Land Rover wanted $2500 for this part. There were two other computers on board, both fried as well. All this at 50K miles. The harness was fine, wire was actually pretty beefy. Problem is, when it rained, water ran right down over the fuses and relays. At the time the truck was only a few years old. I wound up getting the parts from a relative living in the UK for $500.00 Can you say price gouging?

As far as rust, it's not true that Land Rovers are all aluminum. They are an Aluminum Alloy (not pure aluminum) with steel frames around the doors, body panels etc. Along with every single nut, bolt, screw and washer - all of these steel panels were rusted on my Defended when it was only 4 years old. I mean rusted as in rust holes, rust bubbles, surface rust and peeling paint.

Having worked on Series Rover restoration projects and my D90 I will NEVER own one (or any UK made car) again. I'd rather fix the rust on my every other year than deal with that electrical crap and play Russian roulette with $2500 parts at the dealers urging...

I am not going to post any more on this thread. This is getting silly.

 

[Gumby]

A wiring harness should not wear out for many, many decades.

Lucas has it's horrible reputation for a reason. It's not all about worn wiring harnesses.

 

[jb welda]

>You clearly do not turn wrenches and if you do, you are clueless or you are
>trying to piss us all off. Go fix some EPA problems, your computer or maybe
>go post on an EPA forum or computer nerd forum where you can add
>something to the mix.

jeez what a dick. you seem to consistently put a whole lot of words in my mouth and then refute what you say i said. for instance can you point out where i said rovers were all aluminum (aside from the fact that would be "aluminium")? or that i said they didnt rust? or that i said lucas "computers" were great?

know why brits like their beer warm? because lucas makes their refrigerators.

all i know about land rovers is that i became a real fan from driving one (someone elses and maintained by a corporation) for 5 years in png. and a precursor to the suzuki samarai that was sold over there evidently that ive never seen another here in the states. the only thing that had over a land rover was that it was narrow and 6 people could lift it to ford rivers which had to be done frequently where i was at. (wewak, sepik river region and madang area mostly).

btw about the wiring harnesses, in my experience the stock cloth wiring harnesses used in MGs, austin healeys, triumphs and other brit cars begin to fall apart after about 5 years of regular use in warmer, dryer (eg: california valley) climates. this is due to dust incursion wearing the insulation internally until there are tiny intermittent electrical shorts internal to the harness. over a bit longer time period they begin to physically fall apart on the outside leading to further incursion of abrasive material and water. my MGTF that i owned from the time i was 15 (approx 1966) until just a couple years ago went through 3 stock harnesses until i had a very quality one laced up by rhode island wiring. that one lasted from approx 1990 until i sold the car last year. in all cases, ALL "electrical" problems ive experienced in the 5 brit cars ive owned were not due to the lucas components but instead to the connectors and/or wiring harnesses. this included the elementary motor electrics as well as head and tail lights, turn signals, brake lights, dash lighting etc. so, gumby, my reality seems to be somewhat disconnected from whatever reality youve experienced (?) in this area.

and im not talking about computers here, im talking about real cars with real electrical systems.

whatevers.

one love
jah bill

 

[Gumby]

I'll be happy to repeat myself.

Wiring harnesses should not wear out. If they do, they are poorly made.

Your reality seems at odds with even the most die hard Brit vehicle fan. Even the US military, who once sourced electrical parts from Lucas thinks they suck.

 

[jb welda]

i would be happy to repeat myself too but i will spare the board.

oh well, it must just be *my* british cars. the only real seemingly unsolvable problem i had with a lucas component was the fuel pump on my MG. replaced it twice or so back in the 60s until i bought a bosch one and it worked forever. in early 90s i replaced it with an "improved" pump by lucas due to esthetic considerations and never had another problem but by that time i had the rhode island wiring harness in.

"poorly made" was and remains a watchword for british automobile standards...im not apologizing for that here.

but the US military...now theres an unimpeachable source if there ever was one.

one love
jah bill

 

[2badfjs]

Q:Wiring harnesses should not wear out. If they do, they are poorly made.

are you serious about this statement?

sooooo you dont think engine heat, extreme temps,OZONE,salt,mag chloride,dirt....ect.
all these elements should have no effect on the insulation or plastic/metal connections.

hey gumby, my 37 year old fj40 has cracked insulation in the wiring, whats up with that.....ya think toyota should warrany this since it should never wear out?

come on, lets get real!
and stop bashing jb

webers rule and you akll know it(just had to throw that in to keep the thread alive )

 

[HntWhtTail]

This thread sucks, what the hell does a british made wiring harness have to do with a landcruiser carb???

 

[2badfjs]

This thread sucks, what the hell does a british made wiring harness have to do with a landcruiser carb???

lets just say it got off track a bit

 

[jb welda]

sorry for leading the conversation off topic, i will try to further restrain myself.

on topic: if you need a wiring harness for that weber or oem carb, be sure to check with rhode island wiring in, guess where, rhode island.

one love
jah bill

 

[Roebon]

You guys really should watch your manners. This thread was supposed to be an informative post about the weber vs. the aisin carb. jb welda, I would think you would be a bit more sensative about pollution.

 

[2badfjs]

You guys really should watch your manners. This thread was supposed to be an informative post about the weber vs. the aisin carb. jb welda, I would think you would be a bit more sensative about pollution.

all threads take a left turn every now and then.

and if YOUR worried about pollution, start pluggin up the volcanos around the world

hey jb, does workin for the EPA mean you care? or the fact that you have a job and know how to do it?

 

[Mace]

Job is computers, not regulation.
And it is Cali EPA http://www.calepa.ca.gov/About/ not EPA.

And stop criticizing my volcanos, without them you would not have, gold, diamonds, geodes, fossil fuels etc.. AND, we would be one big country (Eurasia)

Volcanos are




BTW, Propane is still gods fuel..

 

[2badfjs]

Job is computers, not regulation.
And it is Cali EPA http://www.calepa.ca.gov/About/ not EPA.

And stop criticizing my volcanos, without them you would not have, gold, diamonds, geodes, fossil fuels etc.. AND, we would be one big country (Eurasia)

Volcanos are




BTW, Propane is still gods fuel..

LOL!!!

 

[nikos8]

As far as I'm concerned volcanos blow!;p

 

[Mace]

As far as I'm concerned volcanos blow!;p

They can suck too...

 

[2badfjs]

They can suck too...

only if you live close enough to one

 

[dieselcruiserhead]

Just "catching up" on this thread.. Dear Lord.. But I will say I have much much enjoyed the posts by Stumbaugh over the years, 99.5% of the time I find he really knows his s***! Better than most guys here and especially for a flatlander But none of this meant in offense to you JB Welda but sick of people argueing for the sake of arguing!

Anywhoo, again I messed with Webers for years and was yet one more of the idiot parrots (hear something, whether you have any experience with it or not, repeat it, repeat it) on the LCML who was all about webers.. So I got screwed basically into running them for a good 5 years easily.. I ran them on:

74 FJ40 Original F engine - brand new out of box Weber.
74 FJ40, 69 F engine - Moved the brand new (3 months) carb to this engine.
75 FJ40, OEM 2F engine. Ran a 38/38. It completely crapped out in about 3 years. Switched to a brand new 32.36. I will NEVER EVER run a 32/36 on a Cruiser engine again, it is FLAT OUT THE WRONG SIZE. (Yet they still sell a kit for it for the cruiser).
'71 FJ55. With a brand new Weber that came on it. Ripped that sucker off ASAP and sold it on Ebay via Ross Woody...

Bottom line (for me) with the webers were:
1) They would never last more than a few years. You could get them tuned right and in 2-3 years they were complete and utter junk. The last 38/38 I ran in three years went to about 3-6 MPG, incredibly rich, smelled like ass, and could never retune correctly....
2) IMO they are not suited for a cruiser, they are just tuned wrong. And my opinion on this is because they are a universal carb and they are just off. The 38/38 ran great on the '75 2F but it also ran rich (but powerfully). Of course if you add more fuel you get more power.. But engines, even a nice EFI runs at maybe 30-35% efficiency max (which is retarded), I bet I was running at 10-15% effienency max with the tuning I ever had on a weber.

You can literally hear the difference between a good cruiser carb adn a weber, it just sounds like it runs wrong.. And I personally (regardless of all the Ferrari this and BS that), think that the cheapo, generic "kit" webers I have all gotten are POS, and literally will never, ever, ever, spend a cent on owning one again... From Cruiser experience (but no other) I have concluded that webers are complete and utter P's O' S.

But that is what we are talking about, isn't it??

Otherwise, perhaps a Weber designed for the correct OEM engine, particularly built in the 60's or 70's maybe is a better setup, but again I think that is a completely different ballgame IMO..

 

[scott84]

Restart haha

 

[ntsqd]

The off camber issue, if it exists, can be easily delt with with using some 1/4" steel tube, a Dremel Tool, and some JB-Weld to extend the bowl vent up. I made this mod on the DGV that I run on my rock crawling dune buggy (& no, that is not an oxy-moron!).
They do not like and will not run properly on more than 4 psi fuel pressure. Beating your head against a wall made from Basaltic lava will be less painful than trying to tune a Weber with excessive fuel pressure.

Assuming that whom ever originally set it up put in the right emulsion tubes AND nobody has screwed with them, then jetting one is a 2 step process.

1) Set the idle speed screw 1.5 turns in; set the idle volume screw 1 turn out from lightly bottomed. Adjust idle volume screw (It is NOT a mixture screw!) to the highest idle speed. If more than 1/4 in results in the highest idle speed, then the idle jet is too big. Reduce it's size and repeat.
If more than 1/4 out results in the highest idle speed the Idle Jet is too small, increase it's size and repeat.

2) Note that the Idle jets are not just for idling, they are part of the fuel metering circuit up to about 3000 RPM.
Free rev the engine while looking down the venturi and note the RPM when the booster venturi starts to dribble fuel. It should start at just about 3k. If it is a lower RPM then the Main jet is too large. Above 3k and the mains are too small.
(I think I have this last part correct. I'm going on memory as I can't find my 'cheat sheet.')

There is an RoT for the relationship between the size of the mains and the size of the air bleeds. When I find my cheat sheet I'll update with that info.