Thinking of going tankless. Anyone installed a natural gas tankless water heating system? Any brands to look for or avoid? Any suggestions?
Water heater leaking...
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how far is the longest run from your water heater a sink/tub... the longer the run with tankless the longer you have to wait, and the more gas you use.
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I'm in that very situation right now - just got the first estimate in and they aren't cheap.
The issues you will be dealing with:
1) The flue/duct must be stainless steel due to condensation issues. The preferred method of installation is out the side of the house (in basement applications), but the LF of ducting necessary may influence the decision.
2) If going with gas, you'll need a 3/4" dia. gas line to the unit. A typical furnace is typically around 120,000 BTU's, a tankless heater is more in the 190,000 BTU range. A tank heater is around 40,000 BTU's.
3) You'll need a 110 outlet near the unit.
4) Check your water supply needs and use that to determine the size you want.
I'm looking at a Noritz N-63 unit. Cost for materials and labor to install, relocate water, and gas lines, and install new ducting is $2100. There's also a $300 tax credit for this unit.
HTH.
The issues you will be dealing with:
1) The flue/duct must be stainless steel due to condensation issues. The preferred method of installation is out the side of the house (in basement applications), but the LF of ducting necessary may influence the decision.
2) If going with gas, you'll need a 3/4" dia. gas line to the unit. A typical furnace is typically around 120,000 BTU's, a tankless heater is more in the 190,000 BTU range. A tank heater is around 40,000 BTU's.
3) You'll need a 110 outlet near the unit.
4) Check your water supply needs and use that to determine the size you want.
I'm looking at a Noritz N-63 unit. Cost for materials and labor to install, relocate water, and gas lines, and install new ducting is $2100. There's also a $300 tax credit for this unit.
HTH.
might also be a state tax credit.
I was also looking into it, but after the initial cost, the payback was too long for me, I'm staying with a tank.
Tankless are nice but can't handle hard water. If you run one with hard water you'll need to acid wash the coil every now and then to keep the water flowing. You can buy 3- 40 gal tank heaters for the price of a tankless.
Keep in mind you need to be above snow line with the heater vent. Gas company goes by the manufacture's recomendation as to snow height. This makes it hard to vent from basement in a lot of areas.
Kevin
Kevin
Keep in mind you need to be above snow line with the heater vent. Gas company goes by the manufacture's recomendation as to snow height. This makes it hard to vent from basement in a lot of areas.
Kevin
Kevin
This is the same with a tank unit too. Wasted water and wasted heated water.
One possible advantage to a tankless unit is that the smaller size could allow it to be installed closer to the point of use.
True but w/tank water heater that has a hot water loop you never are waiting to for water. If you run a loop on a tankless the heater will lose most of its efficacy heating the water in the loop. I would agree that you could install 2 tankless if you house is spread out but then you would have to split your hot water lines. I think that tankless is a cool way to go in a cabin or something that dose not see the use of you everyday hot water neeeds
just my thoughts
Ian
When I looked into this about 2 or 3 years ago one local supply shop and a plumbing contractor didn't reccomend it for whole-house use due to the incoming water temp in our area. Unless you ran two of them in series, you couldn't get hot enough water out at high flow rates. Maybe the state of the art has improved and/or you can count on higher incoming water temps in your area.
I would try to talk to somebody in your area with a similar size family (ie. demand) and see if they are happy with it.
I would try to talk to somebody in your area with a similar size family (ie. demand) and see if they are happy with it.
I also have been thinking about a tankless water heater...I have 2 young kids and lots of clothes, baths etc.....water comes in pretty cool (I haven't put a thermometer on it though) ...
I already have a gas hot water tank..and pay a monthly rental to the local gas company for the tank..it is about 15 years old....I think my options are to buy a tankless unit or purchase outright a new water tank heater...I wonder if the newer gas tanks have improved in efficiency ....and what do folks recommend as the best choice these days? Manufacturer?...tanks!
I already have a gas hot water tank..and pay a monthly rental to the local gas company for the tank..it is about 15 years old....I think my options are to buy a tankless unit or purchase outright a new water tank heater...I wonder if the newer gas tanks have improved in efficiency ....and what do folks recommend as the best choice these days? Manufacturer?...tanks!
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I've opted to stay with the tank heater due to these issues:
Replacement tank is around 1/5th the cost of the tankless installation.
Unproven in our area at this time - no history on how well it can handle the hardness of our water.
Concerns about incoming water temperatures - our drinking water is brought in from surrounding lakes and at this time of year it is just a little cold right out of the tap - no ice needed...
So, let me know in a few months if I made the wrong decision or not.
Replacement tank is around 1/5th the cost of the tankless installation.
Unproven in our area at this time - no history on how well it can handle the hardness of our water.
Concerns about incoming water temperatures - our drinking water is brought in from surrounding lakes and at this time of year it is just a little cold right out of the tap - no ice needed...
So, let me know in a few months if I made the wrong decision or not.
When my water heater gave up two years ago I looked really hard at tankless and could not justify the new gas line, water line, hole in the side of the house, etc. I went to home depot and bought the one with the most year warranty and installed it myself saving thousands.
For new construction I could see installing one. The small single zone units are very popular in Europe but most of us would consider them an eyesore in the bathroom or kitchen.
For new construction I could see installing one. The small single zone units are very popular in Europe but most of us would consider them an eyesore in the bathroom or kitchen.
bsevans
Focus on the Journey
I recently helped a friend install a tankless hot water heater as a replacement for a leaking tank. The system was very easy to install and plumb to the existing fittings. The instructions called for a gas line which was one size larger than necessary for the BTU output. After measuring the length of supply line we calculated that the existing supply line would easily support the maximum BTU rating of the heater. The system works very well and supplies sufficient hot water to take a shower, wash cloths, and run the dishwasher at the same time (according to them). They are very happy with the unit, which is good considering that they paid more than twice the cost of a top of the line classic hot water heater. Tankless hot water heaters are just catching on in the US but have been used in Europe for decades. If you want brand and model number, let me know and I will call them.
2ndGenToyotaFan
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I've installed 2, both Bosch 125 series, that series requires no pilot, or battery or electric plug. That means you dont' spend any money unless you're using hot water. You also won't have to worry about power-outs. They are one of the smaller versions Bosch makes, but are perfect for a one bath home as long as you don't have people showering and using the dishwasher, and washing clothes...... But a 50 gallon tank isn't going to last long with too many things running at once either.
Hard water isn't good for any plumbing system, so if you have it, get a water softener........
A tank water heater is much cheaper to replace, but an electric one is costing you $200-$400 a year to run..... I can't say what the gas versions cost to run, but keeping water hot just in case you need it is like letting your truck idle..... in case you need to go to the store today!
Hard water isn't good for any plumbing system, so if you have it, get a water softener........
A tank water heater is much cheaper to replace, but an electric one is costing you $200-$400 a year to run..... I can't say what the gas versions cost to run, but keeping water hot just in case you need it is like letting your truck idle..... in case you need to go to the store today!
I have had some good experience with the Rinnai tankless water heater. I installed one in my new masterbath/laundryroom addition. Works great. I can run washer, shower, and tub at the same time. The thing I like the most is that I can fill my two person tub without running out of hot water. Also, the amount of space needed is minimal. Rinnai even makes a exterior unit which can be mounted in a 2x6 wall.