Was looking for a Cross slide vise, but found an older HF mill/drill machine instead!! (1 Viewer)

[alia176]

Cut my first slot in the X and Y direction . I need to flip the thing over and clean/lube the mondo jack shaft/screw as it itakes way more effort to move than the other axis.

Bummer part is the holes I'm wanting to slot are 5/16" and that particular end mill bit is missing from my set and needs to to be Amazoned. Local HF is out two.more weeks

May I have a link to affordable bits for a DIY like myself can afford please? Thx.

 

[firestopper]

The drill/mill machine you purchased will mill lite cuts with the correct cutter speeds/feed but you won't be able to get aggressive. I would not recommend a drill chuck to be used with an end mill. A drill chuck is not designed for side loading nor will it hold an end mill safely. If you can use a collet on that machine I would strongly recommend it. First thing to determine is what spindle you have and go from there. Work holding is also just as important as tool holding so make sure you evaluate your work pieces prior to milling. When end mills break they can shatter and fly about so always wear safety glasses. I know this is simple advice but too many injuries can be prevented. Machining is very rewarding but it come with a price. My mills and and lathes set me back some good money but they don't compare to the cost of tooling, and metrology instruments needed to machine accurately.
Congratulations on your fist step into machining!
BTY, many good deals on Craigslist if you patient enough.
Turn and burn!

 

[Mauser]

I am pretty sure that you can use #2 Morse Taper collets with that machine.

 

[e9999]

Ali, no, that pic suggests that the chuck is on a Jacobs taper which may in turn be on a Morse taper into the quill. But those are guesses. And those would be more typical of drill presses rather than mills AFAIK.
From memory (could be wrong, not a machinist here) an R8 tool or adapter needs a draw bar which I'm not seeing up top.
From what I can see, your machine seems to be a hybrid somewhere between a drill press and a mill. Which is fine, as long as you understand its limitations.
But again, if you just got that machine and vise, who cares what tapers there are... Enjoy!

 

[Prairie Swamp]

I was looking on my phone over the weekend - now I see that is different than mine. I pulled up the manual and sure enough no drawbar - so don't buy a set of R8 collets. Still it's a nice heavy machine that should do what you need.

 

[alia176]

Thank you for checking. Cheers.

 

[e9999]

the manual should tell you what kind of tool coupling you have. You want to know that so you may think about using something else than a chuck if possible/needed. A chuck is not a great holder for a mill bit IMO. There may be something on the machine tag as to what coupling there may be, something like MT2 etc. The chuck may also have a stamp, something like JT33 etc. If you lower the quill you may also see a slot though which the (typically Morse taper for drill presses) adapter can be removed by inserting a wedge. There may also be a stamp on the adapter (or quill?).
If you don't see a slot, then the chuck may be on a tapered lower end bar that goes all the way to the top through the quill. If you take a pic with the quill down we may be able to tell.
Either way, that may be a limiting factor, don't buy tooling etc without figuring this out first.

 

[alia176]

This video talks about the newer style that can handle a R8 deal, makes sense now. I'd need the correct draw bar, which I don't have. Just good to learn these things!

 

[e9999]

It seems highly unlikely to me that you could go to a spindle with an R8 taper, if that's what you meant, from another type, unless the machine is designed for that in the first place. But no need to worry. Enjoy yours for what it can do. It'll probably be fine with lighter work and aluminum, just go slow and easy.

added: I should also say that whereas there does not seem to be a drawbar visible on top of the device, it is also possible that it'd be reachable under the cover. Have a look. Between that and looking at the quill/spindle you should be able to tell what's there, if you can't find the manual.

added 2: well, guessing only gets us so far so I finally looked it up as I was curious. The manual specs for that p/n states that the spindle taper is indeed MT-2. That is typical for a (better) drill press. So going to R8 seems like a distant possibility. Now, there are some collets (like the ERs) that have a MT taper shaft and could be used, but realistically, the holding power for side milling is likely to be not so good without a drawbar. Maybe you could add a drawbar to solve that problem if the spindle is hollow, but that seems also unlikely. Check. (I remember seeing an old video by AVE where he used superglue to hold an MT taper in place but would not recommend... )
Then again, a plain MT-2 adapter is probably what you are using now with the chuck, so using an ER - MT adapter would likely be as good -holding wise- as what you have now and would likely be much better for more accurate milling. But more $$. I say keep playing with the chuck until you're frustrated.

 

[alia176]

It's time for an update gents. I finished up the correct project involving slotting out some holes and ready to dive into this machine. Here's the drawbar and the chuck with MT#2 taper.

Based on this info, let me know my options please. The bottom thread is indeed 3/8"-16.

I spoke to littlemachineshop and he suggested purchasing one of these kits. Will these collets squeeze themselves tighter as I tighten the drawbar nut up top? If not, do I need something else like a collete holder or something?

2 Morse Taper Round Collets | Morse Taper Collet Set

Keep your workpieces and tools in place. Made of high-grade tool steel, these 2 Morse taper round collets have been hardened and ground to close tolerance.

littlemachineshop.com

 

[e9999]

well, if there is a drawbar you are in luck. Good for you! That does open more possibilities. And makes me think a bit better of HF.

Yes, I would think that the collets should tighten as is when you pull them up with the drawbar. They should just fit in the MT2 receptacle.

One thing I would look at is how many collets you are likely to need. If it's only a couple, going with the individual MT2 types that you showed above may be cheapest. If you are likely to need many, I would suggest you look at alternatives like the ER collets holders as well, as it could well end up cheaper overall despite the basic holder being a bit expensive perhaps.

But pay also attention to the length of the collet assembly since it looks like you don't have that much room. From that perspective the MT collets you show may be better as in shorter overall.

 

[alia176]

ahh, so the bar i posted above is not a drawbar, understood. I was calling that long rod the drawbar!

 

[e9999]

^ OK now I'm confused. AFAIK, yes, the usual name for the rod threaded in the end of the tapered tool that you use to pull it up is called a drawbar. I don't think I said otherwise.

I thought you meant in post #30 that that rod you show was the drawbar for your actual machine and that it was in use, is that not the case? Looks a bit skinny to me, actually, but it's not like it will take enormous stress.

 

[alia176]

I thought you meant in post #30 that that rod you show was the drawbar for your actual machine and that it was in use, is that not the case? Looks a bit skinny to me, actually, but it's not like it will take enormous stress.

You're 100% correct, that is the drawbar being used in my machine.

My confusion was based on this statement you made after looking at the drawbar pic

"well, if there is a drawbar you are in luck. Good for you! ".

 

[e9999]

I was saying that it is a good thing that there is a drawbar in your machine. That was not obvious from the outside.
Of course, a machine that is called -and intended to be- a mill really should have one, but it's not like HF is above mislabeling stuff to sell more. So a pleasant surprise this time. No need for funky improvisation.

In practical terms, that means you can do more serious work with more serious tools.

 

[firestopper]

CDCO Machinery Corp.

Check this site for affordable entry tooling. It shows out of stock but give them a call. The set of seven (1/8-1/2") runs $58.
Yes, you thread in the collet just enough to hold it then load the correct end mill and tighten. No need to crank too hard on that drawbar or you'll break it.
Just make sure you verify the thread size and pitch on the drawbar.

A lot more options on those 2MT collets on Ebay too.

2MT collets for sale | eBay

Get the best deals for 2MT collets at eBay.com. We have a great online selection at the lowest prices with Fast & Free shipping on many items!

www.ebay.com

 

[alia176]

Thank you sir, much obliged.

Here comes another newbie question. Given that the drawbar has a skinny neck up top with a tiny nut, i'm wondering if I want to go with a different system that doesn't rely on loosening/tightening that nut for collet change. How about something like an ER style collet where the drawbar nut up top doesn't need to be messed with?

 

[e9999]

^ on the ER / MT chuck the drawbar does not contribute to tightening the collet proper -unlike in the MT collet case- but you still want to use it in order to hold the chuck firmly in the spindle because side forces when milling will likely loosen the MT shank if the drawbar is not used. So it will still need to be used and tightened (but not every time you change the collet or bit).

That nut up top does look pretty small. If it gets damaged you could check and see if you could use a thicker bar and maybe weld a bigger nut up top. Or even maybe use 3/8 allthread with 2 nuts jammed up top if the spindle will allow that.

 

[alia176]

^ on the ER / MT chuck the drawbar does not contribute to tightening the collet proper -unlike in the MT collet case- but you still want to use it in order to hold the chuck firmly in the spindle because side forces when milling will likely loosen the MT shank if the drawbar is not used. So it will still need to be used and tightened (but not every time you change the collet or bit).

That nut up top does look pretty small. If it gets damaged you could check and see if you could use a thicker bar and maybe weld a bigger nut up top. Or even maybe use 3/8 allthread with 2 nuts jammed up top if the spindle will allow that.

That drawbar up there has to be small due to the hole being much smaller in diam than 3/8" diam, hence why the drawbar has two different neck sizes. I don't know why they decided to not have a larger hole up top where the pulley is attached to but I can work around it.

The ER/MT chuck pictured above does have 3/8" internal thread so it'll be perfect to match to my drawbar 3/8" thread and everything should fit up nicely. I'll order the eBay ER/MT kit and see how it does.

 

[firestopper]

Go with whatever is easier on your wallet. I say this because this machine is very limited to accuracy and you will more than likely upgrade in the near future if you get serious about milling. The 2MT spindle will not be used on any milling machine upgrades IMO.
Any import bench mill with a R-8 spindle would be a significant upgrade compared to a 2MT. You might get frustrated when you start breaking end mills due to lack of rigidity. I mentioned in an earlier post the tooling will add up far beyond what the machine cost.
I would stick to individual 2MT collets reducing the load forces on the spindle bearings and save you money. The ER-25 system does come with some conveniences in terms of faster tool change and more choices in gripping range between say a metric cutter and a fractional size where a collet is solely dedicated to the size indicated.

Not trying to rain on your parade, just trying to save you money and frustration.
FWIW, if you decide to modify the draw bar just remember a tapered spindle doesn't require over tightening.