I agree I dont need the cruiser telling me what to do. Ill stick with the 62s and the 91 fj-80. Mike
"VSC" Caused me to total my LC-100 (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Alaskan_IB
- Start date
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re_guderian
SILVER Star
That's a dramatic over-simplification. I saw Topoguide's slip over the muddy embankment and recovery in my rear view mirror
... VSC definitely worked in that situation. Why not just understand what it does (and doesn't) do and adapt. This thread was good for me as a reminder to lock the center in the snow. Otherwise, there are times when it's a good thing. Don't be one of the guys that says "I know a friend's brother's cousin-in-law who died on a motorcycle because he was wearing a helmet, therefore I'm never wearing a helmet". Life is seldom so black and white. Anyway, no one can force you to buy a truck with VSC.
Trunk Monkey
Moderator
It's a good lesson in practicing with your truck. First car I had with ABS I found a snow covered parking lot and practiced braking at speed. It was very difficult to get use to taking longer to stop and instead of locking up and steering into the slide, to brake firm and continue to steer as normal.
From what my dad tells me with his 4Runner, the VSC system can be somewhat disconcerting when it activates with all the noise and clanking. That'd be something else to get used to.
From what my dad tells me with his 4Runner, the VSC system can be somewhat disconcerting when it activates with all the noise and clanking. That'd be something else to get used to.
Mark W
Yep, I really don't really care that much I guess.
- Thread starter
- #25
Sounds like I started quite the debate and hopefully for those of you who do understand then I hope this helps you out.
Like I first stated in the thread if you don't drive in snow and ice then this thread might not be for you. If you only occasionally drive in it then VSC is an awesome option for the NOOB in snow and ice. Your instinct will be to just steer the direction you want to go and VSC plans on it then corrects your vehicle angle for you to that steering direction.
If your like me and steer away from the direction your going due to a slide to gain control again (for only a second or two for correction sake) then this system is a surprise at the most inopportune moment. My case in point.
I do not entirely blame my rig....having said that I should have read what exactly VSC does and for me it does not work. When you grow up living in snow and ice you already know how to drive in it. So when your truck second guesses you then corrects for your wheel direction it spells disaster. I used CDL for the rest of my trip which disabled the VSC and the traction control and went into a few more slide much worse than when I wrecked and I was able to control the situation without a problem or the vehicle taking control. I would like to figure out how to turn off the VSC without locking DIFF and turning off the Traction control system.
Hope this clears things up guys and yes I was on pavement but it was loaded with fresh sloppy wet snow and ice undernieth.....and PS I just got a call from my insurance agent and he said the rig is not totalled.
I might even get a new ARB bumper now.
Robert
PS: I will post some pictures when I get back to Alaska
Like I first stated in the thread if you don't drive in snow and ice then this thread might not be for you. If you only occasionally drive in it then VSC is an awesome option for the NOOB in snow and ice. Your instinct will be to just steer the direction you want to go and VSC plans on it then corrects your vehicle angle for you to that steering direction.
If your like me and steer away from the direction your going due to a slide to gain control again (for only a second or two for correction sake) then this system is a surprise at the most inopportune moment. My case in point.
I do not entirely blame my rig....having said that I should have read what exactly VSC does and for me it does not work. When you grow up living in snow and ice you already know how to drive in it. So when your truck second guesses you then corrects for your wheel direction it spells disaster. I used CDL for the rest of my trip which disabled the VSC and the traction control and went into a few more slide much worse than when I wrecked and I was able to control the situation without a problem or the vehicle taking control. I would like to figure out how to turn off the VSC without locking DIFF and turning off the Traction control system.
Hope this clears things up guys and yes I was on pavement but it was loaded with fresh sloppy wet snow and ice undernieth.....and PS I just got a call from my insurance agent and he said the rig is not totalled.
I might even get a new ARB bumper now.Robert
PS: I will post some pictures when I get back to Alaska
That's a dramatic over-simplification. I saw Topoguide's slip over the muddy embankment and recovery in my rear view mirror
Why not just understand what it does (and doesn't) do and adapt. This thread was good for me as a reminder to lock the center in the snow. Otherwise, there are times when it's a good thing. Don't be one of the guys that says "I know a friend's brother's cousin-in-law who died on a motorcycle because he was wearing a helmet, therefore I'm never wearing a helmet". Life is seldom so black and white. Anyway, no one can force you to buy a truck with VSC.
bit of a difference between safety equipment that doesn't take over control and safety equipment that does take over control of a vehicle. i'd be a bit afraid of what would happen if it went wrong and wasn't working correctly also...another failure point that the driver can't override.
Now, with larger tires and the CVs spinning slower would it take more slide/spin for ABC/XYZ to kick in compared to the same speed on stock tires?
well, there was snow or ice between the pavement and his tires...
I was not accurate enough
FWIW... my dad's 2001 Lexus GS300 has a VSV switch on the dash which disables the system (once you depress, there is a continuous "VSV OFF" light lit). If you feel this strongly about it, you may wish to find a switch and pull apart the dash and see if there may be a plug and play option. It wouldn't surprise me if there was a "pigtail" tied up in the dash that this switch would plug directly into. My dad drove my LX470 a few weeks ago and couldn't get over the similarities of the two vehicles. You may also wish to read up on the GS300's and see if you could dissect a wiring diagram of this switch.
With all the weather in CO right now, mine won't shut up with all the beeping - guess I could slow down, but where is the fun in that?
Bottom line, learn each new vehicle we get - it could be doing things on its own that we have "trained" ourselves to do. Anti lock brakes are very difficult to adjust too at first, for those of us older folk that want to pump them, but after a while we adapt.
Same with VSC, time to hit those icy parking lots and have some fun re-training our natural driving learned techniques.
Thanks Alaskan_IB for the reminder and advise. And for the excuse that I needed to go play in the snow
Bottom line, learn each new vehicle we get - it could be doing things on its own that we have "trained" ourselves to do. Anti lock brakes are very difficult to adjust too at first, for those of us older folk that want to pump them, but after a while we adapt.
Same with VSC, time to hit those icy parking lots and have some fun re-training our natural driving learned techniques.
Thanks Alaskan_IB for the reminder and advise. And for the excuse that I needed to go play in the snow
My 2002 4Runners owners manual says to lock the CD when driving on slippery road surfaces..? I think Toyota new VSC doesn't fair well in Ice and Snow and thats why they recommend to turn it off in my 4Runner.. perhaps?
re_guderian
SILVER Star
So does my 2000 Avalon, but the LC EWD makes it sound like that has to be coded into the ECU. I'll crack open my Avalon EWD and see what it has to say.
According to the EWD for a '00 LC, the VSC has a "fail safe" mode whereby any attempt to disable via pulling wires/relays/sensors, would be perceived as a failure and you'd lose ATRAC and ABS as well according to section #6 below.
See section #3 below for a better explanation of how it counters over and understeer. There are deceleration and yaw sensors in the center console forward of the shifter.
So does the LC Owner's manual, though it doesn't give much detail on how the system works.
I grew up in the midwest as well and learned to drive in the snow and ice in a car with no ABS, VSC, etc. I drove a 2000 Landcruiser for the last 4 1/2 years in the Colorado snow and had to learn how to let the system do its job. All I can say is, once you get used to it, it is a fantastic system. However, it is tough to get comfortable "giving control" to the vehicle. VSC saved my butt numerous times in the mountains in snow and ice just in the last 12 months! Like a few have said, go find somewhere safe to get comfortable with the system.
scottm
SILVER Star
My VSC has saved my wife and family from going off an entrance ramp on the freeway, so I'm happy with it. She's a car girl, drove a Trans Am in the Winter when I met her, knows how to drive in snow.
I've had 11 AWD vehicles, it's not the same as FWD or RWD, takes slightly different techniques. When I went from hard frame to full-sus mountain bikes, it took a dramatic change in style, doesn't mean it was a bad thing.
I just bought a 4Runner, the 4Runner guys have a mod that simulates the CDL switch, there's some debate over what it does and doesn't disable. Their concern is with the traction-control cutting power when you're trying to get across a slippery road with traffic approaching. I plan on doing it, hopefully before Winter is over!
I've had 11 AWD vehicles, it's not the same as FWD or RWD, takes slightly different techniques. When I went from hard frame to full-sus mountain bikes, it took a dramatic change in style, doesn't mean it was a bad thing.
I just bought a 4Runner, the 4Runner guys have a mod that simulates the CDL switch, there's some debate over what it does and doesn't disable. Their concern is with the traction-control cutting power when you're trying to get across a slippery road with traffic approaching. I plan on doing it, hopefully before Winter is over!
Jim_Chow
V8_Fan
Same for me, as I lived a number of years in Upstate NY and drove a 2wd toyota pickup. Looks like I'll have to hit the CDL.
re_guderian
SILVER Star
Well I compared the EWD for my '00 Avalon and my '00 LC while I waited in line at the MVD this afternoon. The ABS, VSC, and ATRAC control units have markedly different connectors and pinouts. Guess that's no surprise, huh? So no plug/play way to adapt the VSC OFF switch from the Avalon w/o knowing a whole lot about that pacticlar ECU. The Avalon has a one-connector, 80-some-odd pin connector, w/ pin 44 for the VSC OFF signal. The LC has 4 smaller connectors with a total of 77 wires, many of which don't appear to be used in the EWD. Guess we're stuck with hitting the CDL button...
hoser
SILVER Star
I know people have been able to disable the VSC while retaining the ATRAC on 4Runners and FJC's. Try searching there for ideas. I would but I don't have much incentive since I have a 98 
I know people have been able to disable the VSC while retaining the ATRAC on 4Runners and FJC's. Try searching there for ideas. I would but I don't have much incentive since I have a 98
do it for the 'guilders! Sincity, zane, macneill, lc4l and me!
After reading this article I had an idea. If you installed a switch in parallel with the CDL indicator switch you may be able to get the ECU to think the CDL is engaged and turn off the VSC.
The theory would be that having both switches installed in parallel would cause the ∞ ohms to be met and the truck would function normally. Once either of the switches was flipped then the current would flow, since the 0 ohms condition is met, and the ECU thinks it’s time to disable the VSC. Note: It would also turn on the VSC Off light and the CDL light.
[FONT="]So if you were successful in doing this the only concern is which switch is on? If a lighted switch (or at least a rocker switch) was used for the "VSC defeat switch" you would know that the CDL may not be locked with that switch lit (or in the on position). If the lights are still on with the "VSC defeat switch" in the unlit/off position then the CDL should actually be locked.
So... who's going to try it?
[/FONT]
The theory would be that having both switches installed in parallel would cause the ∞ ohms to be met and the truck would function normally. Once either of the switches was flipped then the current would flow, since the 0 ohms condition is met, and the ECU thinks it’s time to disable the VSC. Note: It would also turn on the VSC Off light and the CDL light.
[FONT="]So if you were successful in doing this the only concern is which switch is on? If a lighted switch (or at least a rocker switch) was used for the "VSC defeat switch" you would know that the CDL may not be locked with that switch lit (or in the on position). If the lights are still on with the "VSC defeat switch" in the unlit/off position then the CDL should actually be locked.
So... who's going to try it?
[/FONT]
