Solid supporter of TLCA and true cruiser enthusiests. Marlin and other similiar companies have my business when the time comes. Good to hear. Thanks
Vintage in TT?
- Thread starter Gumby
- Start date
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Guess you got to have advertisers to pay for the new glossy sheets. Loved the newest TT, especially the article about the 55 that is about to be reborn. Noticed ol' Greg has a big spread in there too. Even an add committed to selling his puke-green boulevard queen. 
Unbelievable!
If nothing else it serves as a painful reminder every 2 months about my lovely life lesson learned! Guess it is what it is.
Unbelievable! If nothing else it serves as a painful reminder every 2 months about my lovely life lesson learned! Guess it is what it is.
Texican
s-Moderator
[quote author=Gumby link=board=10;threadid=7707;start=msg82351#msg82351 date=1072842932]
Butch said that if i'm willing to pull my support of the TLCA because of this issue then i must have other issues with the TLCA. [/quote]
All I meant by htis statement, was, when I have seen folks pull out of an organization, or toss the threat around, there are other issues.
This is not a deal breaker to me, as I have already stated.
CCOT used to and still has a bad rep. among some.
Some will curse you for mentioning MAF or SOR, so where do we stop?
I agree with and totally support the officers we elected, and will abide by the decisions they make, and will do my best to make sure LSLC does also as long as I am pres.
Butch
Butch said that if i'm willing to pull my support of the TLCA because of this issue then i must have other issues with the TLCA. [/quote]
All I meant by htis statement, was, when I have seen folks pull out of an organization, or toss the threat around, there are other issues.
This is not a deal breaker to me, as I have already stated.
CCOT used to and still has a bad rep. among some.
Some will curse you for mentioning MAF or SOR, so where do we stop?
I agree with and totally support the officers we elected, and will abide by the decisions they make, and will do my best to make sure LSLC does also as long as I am pres.
Butch
[quote author=drohweder link=board=10;threadid=7707;start=msg75303#msg75303 date=1071299252]
Like I said, it won't ever be worth selling it so It going to be a lifer of a vehicle....that means wicked cruiser in 10 years
[/quote]
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=2474065472&category=6443
???
Like I said, it won't ever be worth selling it so It going to be a lifer of a vehicle....that means wicked cruiser in 10 years
[/quote]
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=2474065472&category=6443
???
Ok, I've read enough! Even though I have never done business with this guy I cetainly won't now. This isn't the first thread I've seen about "vintage" being a looser. I have had issues in the past about the TT running adds I didn't agree with ( adds with j*#ps) but I understand the need to sell space to keep our wonderful magazine going.
But as a member of the TLCA as with the rest of you I think we should have a say in what goes into our club publications.
I've been burned by a so called friend of the LandCruiser (John Napier) and tried to keep others away but for some reason he keeps suckering in the unaware.
If "Vintage" is so blatantly bad for the Cruiser community than I don't think his add should be printed. Why should we support a looser?
devo
But as a member of the TLCA as with the rest of you I think we should have a say in what goes into our club publications.
I've been burned by a so called friend of the LandCruiser (John Napier) and tried to keep others away but for some reason he keeps suckering in the unaware.
If "Vintage" is so blatantly bad for the Cruiser community than I don't think his add should be printed. Why should we support a looser?
devo
What's the story on John Napier? I just got a call from him Sunday. Don't want to make the same mistake twice. :-[
Chris Hatfield
Chris Hatfield
Stay clear of this guy if you value your Cruiser.
I could tell you stories!!
There is a thred in the tech section about him and others who have made the mistake. It is a couple of weeks old so you'll have to look around a bit.
I found it on page 6, dated 4/27
devo
I could tell you stories!!
There is a thred in the tech section about him and others who have made the mistake. It is a couple of weeks old so you'll have to look around a bit.
I found it on page 6, dated 4/27
devo
- Thread starter
- #88
My renewal issue came today. TLCA is still actively supporting this a-hole. Now my conundrum is whether I want to send in my renewal money. 
I refuse to buy anything from any advertiser in TT until they pull Vintage's ads. I feel bad about that, but I don't see another way to get TLCA to even feel this is an important issue with the membership.
I refuse to buy anything from any advertiser in TT until they pull Vintage's ads. I feel bad about that, but I don't see another way to get TLCA to even feel this is an important issue with the membership.
Gumby man. Anarchy!!!
Are you alone in this revolt? I don't think TLCA will give a hoot if just one guy stops sending money. How much do they make off of vintage in a year?
Some how we've got to get it through the BOD's thick heads that this is our magazine and they should listen to us. Or they may start loosing more members.
I've had issues with one add in the past and they did make a change, slowly.
I'll continue to keep my TLCA membership because I think the cause is far above some d-head that will end up paying in the end.
devo
Are you alone in this revolt? I don't think TLCA will give a hoot if just one guy stops sending money. How much do they make off of vintage in a year?
Some how we've got to get it through the BOD's thick heads that this is our magazine and they should listen to us. Or they may start loosing more members.
I've had issues with one add in the past and they did make a change, slowly.
I'll continue to keep my TLCA membership because I think the cause is far above some d-head that will end up paying in the end.
devo
Actually, TLCA is being supported by this guy. TLCA is not a political platform where they should make judgements on who's money is "worthy" of taking...it that were the case, individual memberships would include background checks, information on your stand on gun control and abortion rights, and they would have black helicopters circling your house during an intense 5-day interview process under some bright LED dome lights.
I GUARANTEE you that forcing TLCA to start a pre or post insertion order screening process would preclude ANY business from advertising, since the vast majority of business would not wish to risk the potential business backlash of being turned down.
My question will be, what business is next? Tossing one advertisor draws the line....as soon as Vintage takes the cut, some other business will become the next target...
We still have the BEST opportunity for education right here on IH8MUD by exercising our freedom of speech rights to educate other potential customers with regards to our concerns.
I GUARANTEE you that forcing TLCA to start a pre or post insertion order screening process would preclude ANY business from advertising, since the vast majority of business would not wish to risk the potential business backlash of being turned down.
My question will be, what business is next? Tossing one advertisor draws the line....as soon as Vintage takes the cut, some other business will become the next target...
We still have the BEST opportunity for education right here on IH8MUD by exercising our freedom of speech rights to educate other potential customers with regards to our concerns.
- Thread starter
- #91
My issue has been, and continues to be, that TLCA wishes us to support their advertisers. There are a lot of complaints about MAF, SOR, JTO etc., but that's a whole different level than TLCA supporting a virus on the community like Vintage.
I can not support TT advertisers because TT doesn't care who they ask us to support.
If the TLCA does not want us to support their advertisers, lets hear them say it.
I can not support TT advertisers because TT doesn't care who they ask us to support.
If the TLCA does not want us to support their advertisers, lets hear them say it.
How do you support an advertiser? By doing business with them? So we have a great club publication that needs adds to keep the magazine alive for us to read.
I read lots of mags that have adds from vendors I won't patronize.
So every time I see vintage in the TT I cringe and think what a bunch of d-heads. But the TT (TLCA) is important. Spending money and supporting vintage is not.
Maybe through this source, ih8mud, the message will get out, people will stop doing business with vintage, they pull the add, and the business folds.
Bad publicity works wonders. That's political!
devo
I read lots of mags that have adds from vendors I won't patronize.
So every time I see vintage in the TT I cringe and think what a bunch of d-heads. But the TT (TLCA) is important. Spending money and supporting vintage is not.
Maybe through this source, ih8mud, the message will get out, people will stop doing business with vintage, they pull the add, and the business folds.
Bad publicity works wonders. That's political!
devo
Maybe someone could write an article for TT that discusses buying vehicles of ebay with some good stories and some bad.
[quote author=Junk link=board=10;threadid=7707;start=msg154630#msg154630 date=1084307011]
Maybe someone could write an article for TT that discusses buying vehicles of ebay with some good stories and some bad.
[/quote]
Actually go one step further, what to look for in this scenerio, questions to ask, things to be aware of and legal recourse if need be.
Maybe someone could write an article for TT that discusses buying vehicles of ebay with some good stories and some bad.
[/quote]
Actually go one step further, what to look for in this scenerio, questions to ask, things to be aware of and legal recourse if need be.
Toyota Trails, here is evidence of blatant fraud, Vintage bought this cruiser w/150k for $6k two weeks ago on ebay, now he lists it as having 95k mi. for $22.9k. He uses the same descriptions and the same pictures. The price is outrageous but not illegal, rolling back the odometer is illegal. How can the TLCA continue to support this slimeball now???
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...6443&item=2475166957&sspagename=STRK:MEBWA:IT
http://www.vintageoffroad.com/viewvehicle.cfm?id=452
https://forum.ih8mud.com/index.php?board=3;action=display;threadid=16276
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...6443&item=2475166957&sspagename=STRK:MEBWA:IT
http://www.vintageoffroad.com/viewvehicle.cfm?id=452
https://forum.ih8mud.com/index.php?board=3;action=display;threadid=16276
Is it really fraud if it's so obvious as to what he's doing? Are any of you buying these Cruisers at 22k? Heck, plenty of people don't like Bill Gates but I bet they use Microsoft products!
Look, folks, I didn't know about this guy when I signed him on. His ad contract is up after September/October '04. He'll probably be gone after that, so please be patient until then.
The fact is he gives us around 2K per year which is almost enought to print an entire issue of Toyota Trails. If you all want to start up a fund to make up the lost revenue that would be much appreciated.
You know, I'm doing the best I can to pump some money into this effort, a little support would be nice. Does anyone like the Toyota ads? We just signed them up for a whole new year!
Chris Hatfield
Ad Sales Manager, Toyota Trails 8)
Look, folks, I didn't know about this guy when I signed him on. His ad contract is up after September/October '04. He'll probably be gone after that, so please be patient until then.
The fact is he gives us around 2K per year which is almost enought to print an entire issue of Toyota Trails. If you all want to start up a fund to make up the lost revenue that would be much appreciated.
You know, I'm doing the best I can to pump some money into this effort, a little support would be nice. Does anyone like the Toyota ads? We just signed them up for a whole new year!
Chris Hatfield
Ad Sales Manager, Toyota Trails 8)
The reselling at exorbitant prices is nauseating, yes. Some of us may not like his business model, we could argue that all day and never agree.
My point is:
HE IS APPARENTLY ROLLING BACK THE ODOMETER WHICH IS NOT ONLY ETHICALLY WRONG IT IS ILLEGAL .
Sorry to yell, trying to make my point, but the fact that he is apparently commiting fraud, is where there is no room for an honest organization to look the other way.
Edit: Looking at his ad I am getting more angry, in the title of the Vintage Offroad ad he touts that it is "rust free", and "never rust". When you look on the original ebay ad, the original seller added a link to pictures, specifically showing the rust. Outright fraud, what else can you call it!
My point is:
HE IS APPARENTLY ROLLING BACK THE ODOMETER WHICH IS NOT ONLY ETHICALLY WRONG IT IS ILLEGAL .
Sorry to yell, trying to make my point, but the fact that he is apparently commiting fraud, is where there is no room for an honest organization to look the other way.
Edit: Looking at his ad I am getting more angry, in the title of the Vintage Offroad ad he touts that it is "rust free", and "never rust". When you look on the original ebay ad, the original seller added a link to pictures, specifically showing the rust. Outright fraud, what else can you call it!
Chris, you've got a hard job....I see it daily from the standpoint of a Marketing manager trying to balance my ad campaigns between the dozens of publications who feel their "market" is perfect for our product, and at times even get pushy, telling me that I am apparrently ignoring that market by not advertising in their publication.
This thread has nothing to do with the excellent work you do with the difficult job of filling ad space, but only with one particular vendor. BTW: How long has Vintage advertised in TT? Do renewals come up automatically, do you pursue vendors for renewals, or do they "know" their ad rotation schedule and contact you when their contract is complete?
(this might be a new thread entirely....lol)
This thread has nothing to do with the excellent work you do with the difficult job of filling ad space, but only with one particular vendor. BTW: How long has Vintage advertised in TT? Do renewals come up automatically, do you pursue vendors for renewals, or do they "know" their ad rotation schedule and contact you when their contract is complete?
(this might be a new thread entirely....lol)
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Folks we (tlca bod) are reading and listening, thinking, planning, discussing, even if we don't necessarily seem to visibly be doing so here. This is an issue we have, and continue to discuss. TT is a fine, and expensive publication While I share feelings with many of you about Vintage's practices, I also feel kinda warm and fuzzy about the fact that they pay for 15% of our annual budget for printing TT. I will never do biz with him. He bought a 65fj45LV out from under me for $1500, and is re-selling it as is for $9500:O!!!
Try to understand there are several layers of concern here to deal with, and that we are actively discussing things and working towards a solution, which, as Chris points out, will probably solve itself.
In the meantime, please take time to thank Chris for the new, large, premier vendors he's brought on board in his tenure as "ad guy." Toyota corporate, and Marlin Crawler are two big ones. You can't imagine the hoops he had to jump thru at Saatchi and Saatchi to get this done...If you look closely, you'll see some other small and interesting people like Canyon4x4 and others. With the economy as tight as it is, I think he's doing a pretty impressive job! Alan
While I share feelings with many of you about Vintage's practices, I also feel kinda warm and fuzzy about the fact that they pay for 15% of our annual budget for printing TT. I will never do biz with him. He bought a 65fj45LV out from under me for $1500, and is re-selling it as is for $9500:O!!!Try to understand there are several layers of concern here to deal with, and that we are actively discussing things and working towards a solution, which, as Chris points out, will probably solve itself.
In the meantime, please take time to thank Chris for the new, large, premier vendors he's brought on board in his tenure as "ad guy." Toyota corporate, and Marlin Crawler are two big ones. You can't imagine the hoops he had to jump thru at Saatchi and Saatchi to get this done...If you look closely, you'll see some other small and interesting people like Canyon4x4 and others. With the economy as tight as it is, I think he's doing a pretty impressive job! Alan
I'll pony up the first $250 to replace his ad revenue if the TLCA does not renew Vintage. 