Vibration when cornering at speed (1 Viewer)

[FranceJohnson]

Hello all, spend most of my time in the 80 section, so this might be my first post here. I am working on my wife's 2000 LX470 which has about 250k. I searched through about 10 pages of search results, but I could not find my problem.

I have a very notable vibration which I can feel in the steering wheel and hear/feel in the floor boards when CORNERING ONLY. The truck is perfectly smooth on acceleration/stopping and in a straight line, but when I take a corner I can feel it. This is correlated to speed and sharp turns in the canyons, so it is caused by a lateral force.

I am thinking it is maybe my wheel bearings or maybe bearing pre-load? However, I am not overly familiar with the IFS, so I am not sure if there is a component like the CV joint which can cause this. Other than the boots being replaced by the Toyota Certified Shop, I do not have records from the PO of when the bearings or CV joints were replaced.

AHC system seems to work great, fluid was recently flushed, and I do not get the impression it is related as in other threads. I would appreciate any feedback if someone has had a similar issue. I have rebuilt the front axle on my 80, and after watching the Jonesy video it looks very similar. I do not wish to throw money at the truck at see what sticks if anyone has a better idea of what is causing the vibration.

Thanks for your help.

 

[Trunk Monkey]

Checking the wheel bearings is easy, rock tire at 6 and 12. Check tie rods while you're doing that. Is it while you're braking around the corner?

 

[FranceJohnson]

Is it while you're braking around the corner?

No issues while braking, only moving forward and cornering. Either on the interstate at 65 mph+, or coming up or down the Cottonwoods. I don't think it is the rotors, it is something you can feel in the floor/chassis, not just the wheel.

 

[arcteryx]

Second what Trunk stated. Sounds like your pre-load was not done correctly and there is some play occurring. Jack it up and shake the wheel and report back.

 

[2001LC]

While checking those front bearings; I'd pull both caps of front axle hub flange too check snap ring gap, lock nut & locking ring and how grease looks.

2001 FSM: gap less then 0.008in (0,2mm)

 

[bctlex]

While checking those front bearings; I'd pull both caps of front axle hub flange too check snap ring gap, lock nut & locking ring and how grease looks.

2001 FSM: gap less then 0.008in (0,2mm)

I have had a very low, almost like grinding noise that is barely audible when windows are down and in low speed from PS side. No vibration - I tried it yesterday on corners just to see if I have the same problem as OP. Brakes has plenty of pad materials. New shocks, bushings, and end links. Car drives fine otherwise. Bearings are next on my what to do list. It was repacked ~30K miles ago based on receipt from previous owner. I been reading up as much as I can since I never done this.

Would you be more specific on what exactly that I should see if I pull the axle hub flange? I should see grease, instead of bone dry? Make sure that everything are tight?

I like to confirm the problem first before I decide if thats something I can handle, or better let the professional deal with it.

Thanks
Chris

 

[Sandroad]

@FranceJohnson I'm going to suggest a different cause than others; I wonder about a bad tire. Tires deform a lot during cornering and one with broken belts or bad sidewall could cause a vibration like you describe when cornering even if ok while going straight. Maybe do a tire rotation and see if the feel of the vibration changes?

 

[PADDO]

Your AHC system cross connects wheels (via front and rear gate valves) for normal driving and isolates each shock as a function of speed and steering wheel angle. Maybe you've got a defective gate valve that's causing a pulsation in the suspension? Long shot I know but if you turn off AHC (at N height) and stay below 50mph (so it doesn't turn back on) and the problem goes away you may have found your answer.
Have you checked front diff oil and the magnetic drain plug?

 

[2001LC]

I have had a very low, almost like grinding noise that is barely audible when windows are down and in low speed from PS side. No vibration - I tried it yesterday on corners just to see if I have the same problem as OP. Brakes has plenty of pad materials. New shocks, bushings, and end links. Car drives fine otherwise. Bearings are next on my what to do list. It was repacked ~30K miles ago based on receipt from previous owner. I been reading up as much as I can since I never done this.

Would you be more specific on what exactly that I should see if I pull the axle hub flange? I should see grease, instead of bone dry? Make sure that everything are tight?

I like to confirm the problem first before I decide if thats something I can handle, or better let the professional deal with it.

Thanks
Chris

Start with easiest; tire balance, then working your way deeper.

Safety first, block rear wheels and lift front and use jack stands.

Take pressure off ball joint by placing jacking near ball joint and lift, tire should be slightly off the ground.
Rotate wheel; do you hear unusual sound.
Check CV (front drive shaft), struts, bushings and linkage.
Next. place long pry bar under tire and have buddy lift & release several times while watching ball joint and bushing for unusual movement.
Rotate tire back & forth while holding and pulling on axle, can you hear any binding, feel or see unusual vibration or movement.

Now remove axle hub flange cap.
Grab wheel/hub rocking back/forth and up/down, you should not see/feel any movement between axle hub and spindle (in bearings). Movement may indicate improper preload and/or damaged bearing, races and spindle. Loose preload will cause chatter, which evidence of can be found by claw wash scoring. This will create heat build-up and may damage bearings, races and spindle. PO left my lock washer tab unbent and lock nut loosened a bit creating chatter, which also increased snap ring gap by slight wearing of internal components of which back side of spindle was most evident but still serviceable.

You should see a little grease on axle and between axle and flange. You'll not see much, but no grease may indicate PO's has not been greasing axle bearing & bushing Slee - Spindle Grease Tool Not greasing may wear axle bushing which increase gap.

Next inspect snap ring, axle and flange end condition, snap ring should be tight (no up & down movement) in grove and have a gap (side to side) no greater than 0.008in. Tip: Put a bolt in end of axle and pull very hard while checking the gap. If gap over limit, this may indicate axle bushing & bearings have not been grease every 30K.

Next check wheel bearings visually, you'll need to remove flange (six nuts and cone washers). This get more in-depth and can be found by searching; wheel bearings. Once flange is off you'll see locking/adjusting nut along with claw washer. You should not be able to see/feel any movement between nuts/claw and axle hub while rocking axle hub. Does grease look normal or has it been contaminated possible indicating poor seals. If you've gone this far may as well do the 30k mile service. Tip: per FSM snap ring is not reusable once removed, as they tend to get bent open (loose in grove).

@FranceJohnson I'm going to suggest a different cause than others; I wonder about a bad tire. Tires deform a lot during cornering and one with broken belts or bad sidewall could cause a vibration like you describe when cornering even if ok while going straight. Maybe do a tire rotation and see if the feel of the vibration changes?

This is without a doubt the first place to check. I had complained about a vibration every tire balance, not bad but I like a smooth ride. Finally I took to a shop that had road force balance and went into shop with tech. He spotted side wall hop on one tire. After 40K miles we finally found it. Unfortunate the next set of tires had some of this, but was manageable. Manageable when tech knew his job and used a 5/150 finger plate along with Toyota cone hub on the road force balancer.

 

[2001LC]

Make sure brakes are in good working order as well.

 

[bctlex]

Start with easiest; tire balance, then working your way deeper.

Safety first, block rear wheels and lift front and use jack stands.

Take pressure off ball joint by placing jacking near ball joint and lift, tire should be slightly off the ground.
Rotate wheel; do you hear unusual sound.
Check CV (front drive shaft), struts, bushings and linkage.
Next. place long pry bar under tire and have buddy lift & release several times while watching ball joint and bushing for unusual movement.
Rotate tire back & forth while holding and pulling on axle, can you hear any binding, feel or see unusual vibration or movement.

Now remove axle hub flange cap.
Grab wheel/hub rocking back/forth and up/down, you should not see/feel any movement between axle hub and spindle (in bearings). Movement may indicate improper preload and/or damaged bearing, races and spindle. Loose preload will cause chatter, which evidence of can be found by claw wash scoring. This will create heat build-up and may damage bearings, races and spindle. PO left my lock washer tab unbent and lock nut loosened a bit creating chatter, which also increased snap ring gap by slight wearing of internal components of which back side of spindle was most evident but still serviceable.

You should see a little grease on axle and between axle and flange. You'll not see much, but no grease may indicate PO's has not been greasing axle bearing & bushing Slee - Spindle Grease Tool Not greasing may wear axle bushing which increase gap.

Next inspect snap ring, axle and flange end condition, snap ring should be tight (no up & down movement) in grove and have a gap (side to side) no greater than 0.008in. Tip: Put a bolt in end of axle and pull very hard while checking the gap. If gap over limit, this may indicate axle bushing & bearings have not been grease every 30K.

Next check wheel bearings visually, you'll need to remove flange (six nuts and cone washers). This get more in-depth and can be found by searching; wheel bearings. Once flange is off you'll see locking/adjusting nut along with claw washer. You should not be able to see/feel any movement between nuts/claw and axle hub while rocking axle hub. Does grease look normal or has it been contaminated possible indicating poor seals. If you've gone this far may as well do the 30k mile service. Tip: per FSM snap ring is not reusable once removed, as they tend to get bent open (loose in grove).

This is without a doubt the first place to check. I had complained about a vibration every tire balance, not bad but I like a smooth ride. Finally I took to a shop that had road force balance and went into shop with tech. He spotted side wall hop on one tire. After 40K miles we finally found it. Unfortunate the next set of tires had some of this, but was manageable. Manageable when tech knew his job and used a 5/150 finger plate along with Toyota cone hub on the road force balancer.

Thank you so much! I been trying to piece info here and there to try to figure out the problem step by step. I know this is probably obvious thing for many people, but not for me.

Chris

 

[FranceJohnson]

This project took me way longer to tackle than I would like to admit. Rotating the tires did not help the situation. I re-tightened the preload which did not seem to make a difference, but I noted it was pretty dry inside there, and what grease was left was pretty dark. I had the driver's side lower ball joint start to give out, so I figured it was time for an entire rebuild.

I replaced the lower ball joint (555 Made in Japan)
Inner and outer wheel bearings (Toyota OEM)
Inner Oil Seal (OEM)
Outer flange gasket (OEM)
Repacked everything with Timken red bearing grease.


I used the Jonesy 100 series brake rotor video for the bearing portion, and the 100 Series Lower Ball Joint Instructions (Lower Ball Joint Replacement Instructions) for the rest. The ball joint was a pretty serious PITA, just due to all the extra little steps involved. Nothing is overly complicated, I rented a ball joint press from Autozone, aside from that, no specialty tools were really required (just large sockets 54mm,24mm,22mm,30mm ect); plan for a long day. The old bearings were pretty dry and had a lot of chatter to them, so I am assuming this was the source of the vibration I was feeling when cornering. Both the ball joint play (felt as a wobble in the steering wheel above 55 mph) and wheel bearing issue (vibration/noise when corning) were both solved by the rebuild.

After reassembly the driver's side feels great. I have a new wobble in the steering wheel, and some play in the wheel laterally, but it is not the same as before. I believe this is due to the lateral sway bushings being in need of replacement. Removing them when doing the install likely woke up a new problem, and they should be replaced next week. I think the wheel bearings were probably the stock ones, so that would be about 270K miles ago now, definitely time for some fresh ones.