V35A-FTS bearing issue? (1 Viewer)

[rexington14]

Even if the recall is expanded to include additional LX’s, Tundras, heck, even some of the very first GX550’s that were produced, it doesn’t really matter.

Toyota has identified the issue, presumably solved the issue going forward, and announced that it will be remedied under a voluntary manufacturer safety recall. Because it is a safety recall, the remedy / fix will of course be free, and eligibility for the fix will not be conditional on any warranty coverage being in effect.

It's hard to imagine a better scenario that could have occurred for the owners of these vehicles, as well as any on-the-fence prospective buyers.

 

[Zill]

You do know that this is a very old engine design-- ladder frame bearing cap that is machined in conjunction with the block. Toyota diesels have been this way since at least 1990. One of Toyota's greatest diesel engines-- 1HD-FTE -- is designed this way. Almost all new engines are designed this way as well.

I'm going with a process issue not a design issue.

What new modern day V6 engines are designed this way? The ecoboost has separate cap holders.

It may not be the best design with these new motors that are under this much stress and torque with such a low displacement figure.

If it was a metal shaving issue, they would have remedied the issue back in early 2023, but we are still seeing it in 2024 model year vehicles.

It may be they are not machining the cradle correctly, and Toyota out engineered their part suppliers tolerance capabilities.

 

[M1911]

What new modern day V6 engines are designed this way? The ecoboost has separate cap holders.

It may not be the best design with these new motors that are under this much stress and torque with such a low displacement figure.

Don't modern turbo-diesels run at much higher pressures?

 

[OregonLC]

Maybe this is a glass-half-full perspective, but this could be fabulous news if: a) this is the smoking gun behind the V35A failure mode, and b) it was contained to a manufacture date ending Feb 23.

As much testing as Toyota does it is hard to understand how this wouldn't have presented itself during development. But those engines would have been hand built with great care. Mass production induced a process flaw, not a design flaw?

 

[Tigerstripe40]

I keep wondering if it isn't an issue with the coating on the bearings.

With the old plastic bearing coating, the plastic would hold the oil better when the engine isn't running, so that there's an oil film on startup, before oil pressure comes up. With the new metallic bearing coating, the bearing wouldn't be holding as much of an oil film, if any, so that on initial cranking of the motor, you've got metal on metal, causing wear.

Just my arm chair engineer guess.

 

[OregonLC]

Depends... barrels are crosshatch honed for oil retention.

 

[SanJuanJ]

Not sure I understand the "see, everything is ok" posts. Aren't there confirmed bearing failures outside of these notice mfg dates (like MY2024 vehicles)?

 

[LX4x4]

The cab needs to come off the replace the shortblock, right?

 

[ryanwgregg]

The cab needs to come off the replace the shortblock, right?

No…

 

[Tigerstripe40]

What new modern day V6 engines are designed this way? The ecoboost has separate cap holders.

It may not be the best design with these new motors that are under this much stress and torque with such a low displacement figure.

If it was a metal shaving issue, they would have remedied the issue back in early 2023, but we are still seeing it in 2024 model year vehicles.

It may be they are not machining the cradle correctly, and Toyota out engineered their part suppliers tolerance capabilities.

The Toyota VZ engines had a similar main bearing design.

I would venture to guess that not many production engines use this because it's a more expensive way to manufacture a block, and likely for the power levels expected from most modern production engines, there are materials available so that blocks made with cheaper production methods can be used and meet the particular desires of the bean counters.

 

[UZJ100LC]

It is amazing that we went from this issue being 'statistically irrelevant' that it shouldn't even be brought up to the ashtray engineer. To a large and very significant recall on 100k+ trucks with no known remedy. all within 24 hours.

 

[OSS]

…… To a large and very significant recall on 100k+ trucks with no known remedy. all within 24 hours.

Obviously there now is a remedy. 100,000 vehicles don’t get recalled with no solution available.

 

[Phillyd2]

It is amazing that we went from this issue being 'statistically irrelevant' that it shouldn't even be brought up to the ashtray engineer. To a large and very significant recall on 100k+ trucks with no known remedy. all within 24 hours.

Not sure how many have already actually been sold but I would guess we are coming close to almost 50% being recalled.

 

[OregonLC]

Not sure how many have already actually been sold but I would guess we are coming close to almost 50% being recalled.

Since it's only through Feb 2023 it's probably 100% manufactured through that date not 50%. They sold 94,000 in 2022. Not sure when the 2023 MY started, probably fall of 2022.

My guess is that Toyota realized the cause (manufacturing debris) back in mid 2023 and fixed the problem at the factory, but had insufficient data as to the extent of the damage until recent when the recall was issued. Again, if correct, this could be a really good thing as it's a mode that is 100% fixable.

The question is, are there any known main bearing failures for vehicles with a manufactured date after the end of the recall window?

 

[LX4x4]

I read a Tundra owner had the shortblock replaced and they had to remove body panels and forgot to connect the filler tube back to the gas tank, if the cab did not come off then why did they have to do that.

 

[MountaineerLC]

Since it's only through Feb 2023 it's probably 100% manufactured through that date not 50%. They sold 94,000 in 2022. Not sure when the 2023 MY started, probably fall of 2022.

My guess is that Toyota realized the cause (manufacturing debris) back in mid 2023 and fixed the problem at the factory, but had insufficient data as to the extent of the damage until recent when the recall was issued. Again, if correct, this could be a really good thing as it's a mode that is 100% fixable.

The question is, are there any known main bearing failures for vehicles with a manufactured date after the end of the recall window?

I do believe I’ve seen documented failures in the 2024 model year as well according to YouTube, fwiw.

These failures are definitely concerning, but I’m glad to see Toyota trying to address the issue. Hopefully this will all be sorted by the time I’m ready for a new (used) ride in a few years.

 

[Cablebandit]

I read a Tundra owner had the shortblock replaced and they had to remove body panels and forgot to connect the filler tube back to the gas tank, if the cab did not come off then why did they have to do that.

You CAN take the cab off to do the replacement but you don't NEED to.

 

[OregonLC]

I do believe I’ve seen documented failures in the 2024 model year as well according to YouTube, fwiw.

Is it possible that the date range is the engine manufacture date? Or, more specifically, the machining date? Could a 2024 MY block have been machined as early as Feb 2023? When did the 2024's first get assembled? August of 2023?

 

[ikarus]

Since it's only through Feb 2023 it's probably 100% manufactured through that date not 50%. They sold 94,000 in 2022. Not sure when the 2023 MY started, probably fall of 2022.

My guess is that Toyota realized the cause (manufacturing debris) back in mid 2023 and fixed the problem at the factory, but had insufficient data as to the extent of the damage until recent when the recall was issued. Again, if correct, this could be a really good thing as it's a mode that is 100% fixable.

The question is, are there any known main bearing failures for vehicles with a manufactured date after the end of the recall window?

@ryanwgregg can answer that better than I can but I know there's one '24 on his spreadsheet that failed at 7500 miles. I've seen a couple others on social media if you believe them. (Sequoia as well.) But the vast majority so far has been '22-'23

Putting my tinfoil hat on, and if any of you have worked with lawyers, you know how they are - I think they worded the recall very deliberately and we have no way of knowing what's going on behind the scenes. They issued a stop sale for 2023s, but there are only 80 or so still for sale in the US. I actually looked at a couple '23 TRD Pros earlier this year - they had big discounts because the '24 Pro was available and '23s were just sitting on a lot, leftover from the previous year. Anyway, if they issued a stop sale for ALL Tundras including '24s I could imagine that would be catastrophic for sales. And we all know what really drives large corporations.

Notice on the official recall: "Information about automotive recalls, including but not limited to the list of involved vehicles, is current as of today’s filing date and is subject to change thereafter."

And as far as the engine removal vs cab removal, it's done either way but it seems like at least for the Tundra it's easier to lift the whole cab off to access the engine. But who can blame them, I've thought about yanking the entire engine on my 80 after spending an hour or two getting finger cramps working on obscure hoses. How nice would it be to have 360° access to an engine just sitting on a chassis?? haha

 

[Zill]

@ryanwgregg can answer that better than I can but I know there's one '24 on his spreadsheet that failed at 7500 miles. I've seen a couple others on social media if you believe them. (Sequoia as well.) But the vast majority so far has been '22-'23

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Putting my tinfoil hat on, and if any of you have worked with lawyers, you know how they are - I think they worded the recall very deliberately and we have no way of knowing what's going on behind the scenes. They issued a stop sale for 2023s, but there are only 80 or so still for sale in the US. I actually looked at a couple '23 TRD Pros earlier this year - they had big discounts because the '24 Pro was available and '23s were just sitting on a lot, leftover from the previous year. Anyway, if they issued a stop sale for ALL Tundras including '24s I could imagine that would be catastrophic for sales. And we all know what really drives large corporations.

Notice on the official recall: "Information about automotive recalls, including but not limited to the list of involved vehicles, is current as of today’s filing date and is subject to change thereafter."

And as far as the engine removal vs cab removal, it's done either way but it seems like at least for the Tundra it's easier to lift the whole cab off to access the engine. But who can blame them, I've thought about yanking the entire engine on my 80 after spending an hour or two getting finger cramps working on obscure hoses. How nice would it be to have 360° access to an engine just sitting on a chassis?? haha

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I feel bad for the customer that had a tech throwing all of the to be re-used engine components on the ground with some paper towels as a barrier? That would not surprise me if they were one of the people on their 2nd blown engine.