Using Hydraulic Surge Brakes (1 Viewer)

[toadshade]

I just picked up a trailer that was a little bigger than I had planned on buying. It is a 7X14 tandem enclosed Wells Cargo. It has hydraulic surge brakes which I have never had or used. I just wanted to see if anyone could tell me if there is a way (that I cannot find doing a search on these brakes) to activate and use them as electric brakes from the controls in my truck? All I have found is a very expensive actuator that would cost more than just replacing these brakes with new electric ones.

 

[Mike Shull]

These are two completely different braking systems. Honestly, surge brakes are usually fairly good systems. Since surge brakes depend on weight pressing against the tongue, they are usually fairly precise as they will automatically adjust based on your load weight. We used this type of brake setup when we pulled smaller equipment. It was nice because you didn’t have to manually adjust your tension like you would with electric brakes. Given this, I have electric brakes on my camper. The weight hardly changes and I do like being able to adjust them stronger when I am coming down a steep grade.

I’m pretty sure that you would either need to replace the brakes with an electromagnetic brake setup at the wheels or the actuator with an electric master in the tongue. I’d think that the former would be cheaper and easier and I’ve done that route before when an actuator went out and we couldn’t find a replacement. I didn’t know that they made an electric actuator to convert over from hydraulic.

 

[toadshade]

I appreciate the help. Since the load in my trailer will almost always be changing a great deal then maybe I will just keep them as is. I just assumed they were mostly for runaway trailer brake systems but if they can provide actual driving brakes then I will probably just tune them up and keep using them. I need to do some more research. My load changes would be a constant adjustment issue with electric.

 

[aztoyman]

I've had a few trailers with surge brakes. Never had any trouble with them. You have to keep the shoes adjusted just as you would with electric.

The only annoying thing is having to lock out the actuator when backing uphill. I have a sloped driveway.

 

[toadshade]

Oh hell! That will be a problem for me for the same reason. This goes into some research I have to do, but there is no way I can see to disable that on mine. Turned out I had to do a full overhaul of the system including buying a new master cylinder. So since I have the brake lines removed in order to clean them, would you possibly recommend a valve after the master cylinder in order to close the line for reverse up a hill? Mine are drum. Not that that makes any difference. But there is no control at all on mine. Even the tow electric wires are 4 wire.

 

[aztoyman]

One of my couplers had a hole for a pin (bolt) to go through and it just stopped the coupler from moving. Another had a lever built in the coupler.

I have seen electric lockout add on kit. I think on etrailer. I believe it's just a solenoid valve after the master cylinder that blocks the flow when powered by the reverse lights.

I had one surge brake setup on a boat trailer that had no lock out, but it was easy to just drill a small hole on each side of the coupler so I could stick a pin through as a lock out. You just make sure the master cylinder is forward and not actuated, mark and drill the hole so your pin goes through the coupler and prevents the coupler from moving and actuating the brakes. I just used a 1/4" bolt. I hung it off a wire to keep it handy. (Steel fishing leader)

Other than the backing up hill thing, I never had a bit of trouble from the surge brakes.

 

[toadshade]

I like the idea of the solenoid with the reverse light. Easy enough.

 

[PAToyota]

Yeah, first time you try to back up a slope and don't know what is going on it can be very confusing...

You can also run into situations where you slow on a downgrade, the trailer bumps into you hard, slams on the trailer brakes, and things get a bit hairy.

 

[toadshade]

So is that just a quick chirp of the brakes before it recovers or does it cause a chain reaction of back and forth?

 

[PAToyota]

Depending on conditions, it can be a bit of back and forth. Particularly if it startles you, you let up on the brakes, and then apply them again.

 

[ntsqd]

If your surge brakes are applying too rapidly they might need the damper replaced or to have one installed.

 

[toadshade]

I thought about that. I just rebuilt the whole hitch and I am now hitting myself for not just replacing the dampers while I was in there. But I am not sure what condition they are in yet since it needed a new master anyway. Hopefully I will have it on the road next week to see how it does.

 

[toadshade]

Just in case anyone is still watching: Just took the trailer out for a first spin since replacing the master cylinder and all of the freaking brake lines (dually too). This trailer was a mess. I have to admit I should do a better job bleeding my lines with a second person since I am not convinced I did a good job with my vacuum. But when I took it around the block for the first time I was seriously impressed. The ride was really smooth. I took it down a pretty steep hill and tried the brakes. After a heavy foot, my truck skidded a little but I was surprised that the truck with the trailer stopped pretty damn well. And this is with Yokohama pizza cutter M/T's and I am using a first series 80 with small discs. The only reason I am thinking I need to re-bleed the brakes is because I have a short but steep driveway. I wanted to see if or when I would lock the brakes. They never did. I bought a reverse solenoid but I have not hooked it up to power yet just because I wanted to see the lockup first. Never happened. Makes me wonder how much I can say is due to the truck itself or not. I know for a fact it is much better though since I vividly remember the terrible 30 mile ride home when I bought it. So it is a much improved ride.

 

[ntsqd]

Possible that the weight of the trailer alone isn't enough to really get the brakes working while going down your driveway?

FWIW I see locked brakes as a failure, not an indicator of of something good. It's true that locked brakes indicate that there is enough force available to lock the tires, but I never want that to happen in normal use.

 

[toadshade]

I agree completely. I am going to do a better bleed and try again. But at the same time, I was stomping the brakes on a hill with pizza MTs. But I still have a feeling you are right. I have to say though, I have to give credit to those notoriously small discs for locking up.