Unsprung Weight of a heavy LT tire

[eatSleepWoof]

I run LT285/75R17 Cooper AT3 XLT tires on Rock Warriors. I added the 1.25" Spidertrax spacers which gives me +18.25 overall offset.
It rides better than before the spacers.
Mild rub in reverse while turning.

Small nitpick, but I hate reading comments like "rides better." It's a completely meaningless statement, because to you a good ride may be that of a dump truck on washboard, and to another person a good ride is that of a parked Cadillac. Everyone has preferences, and "good ride" doesn't tell squat.

Stiffer? Firmer? More/less responsive? More/less durable? On what terrain? At what speeds? Just what, exactly is "rides better" to you?

 

[eatSleepWoof]

My opinion on this is that while there can be no doubt that I sprung weight has an adverse effect in every possible way, I’m not sure if the effect is as profound as often stated.

That depends entirely on each driver's tastes and interests. Someone that drives slowly might not notice any difference at all, while someone that drives aggressively may find the differences to be outright unacceptable.

I immediately noticed negative effects of larger & heavier tires on my Tacoma, and it's enough of an issue for me that I will not consider such changes on the LX.

 

[OregonLC]

I've noticed that it also depends on how long you've owned the tire. The biggest champions are those who just spent $1,500. Those tires always are the best performance known to man.

 

[Whiskerz]

One tidbit from page 1. I am pretty sure the RW's are around 24 pounds or so based on another thread

 

[terdrocket]

Small nitpick, but I hate reading comments like "rides better." It's a completely meaningless statement, because to you a good ride may be that of a dump truck on washboard, and to another person a good ride is that of a parked Cadillac. Everyone has preferences, and "good ride" doesn't tell squat.

Stiffer? Firmer? More/less responsive? More/less durable? On what terrain? At what speeds? Just what, exactly is "rides better" to you?

Being that I was talking about spacers, I like the handling better than before I installed the spacers. The truck feels more planted in higher speed turns, obstacle avoidance, etc.
I immediately noticed and very much liked the difference.

 

[Angelo1]

I've noticed that it also depends on how long you've owned the tire. The biggest champions are those who just spent $1,500. Those tires always are the best performance known to man.

So true, like dating a girl for the first time and telling everyone she’s amazing and then 2mo. later you’re questioning yourself of why she was so great when she’s slapping you around and talking trash about you.

 

[eatSleepWoof]

I've noticed that it also depends on how long you've owned the tire. The biggest champions are those who just spent $1,500. Those tires always are the best performance known to man.

Especially since they're usually comparing old, worn-out tires to brand new ones.

 

[Taco2Cruiser]

I have to agree with @eatSleepWoof on this one. It’s so much personal preference when it comes to the ride. I absolulty love my 200s set up. I can hit anything at highway speeds and the body never moves as the suspension takes it all, but I’m sure someone else will think it rides like crap.

For anything that weights more, it’s going to negative affect... umm everything. But the degree of which a factory sized LT tire will change, I wouldn’t worry about it. Just air down when off road, and be happy about not having as much squish when on road and making turns.

the best part about tires is, unlike almost every other modification, tires wear out, and you will eventually get to “try again.”

 

[Madtiger]

Thank you for all input...and putting my mind at ease. Much appreciated.

 

[1world1love]

That depends entirely on each driver's tastes and interests. Someone that drives slowly might not notice any difference at all, while someone that drives aggressively may find the differences to be outright unacceptable.

I immediately noticed negative effects of larger & heavier tires on my Tacoma, and it's enough of an issue for me that I will not consider such changes on the LX.

Yeah, just to clarify, the "effect" that I was referring to was more about the impact on wear and tear of other components and the durability of the vehicle itself.

I agree with you entirely about the changes to ride/drive. Even changing to a different model in the same size and rating can have profound impacts, but these do tend to depend on personal perception and experience.

 

[M1911]

Yeah, they’re heavy but that’s kind of the point. You take a tank into battle, not a bike. I haven’t weighed my 33’s on the 200, but the 295/70R18 on the 100 weighed about 95 lbs per corner. Porker on the road, brilliant on the trail.

More weight is not an ally off-road.

For anything that weights more, it’s going to negative affect... umm everything.

Exactly. More weight is bad. Unsprung weight is the worst kind of weight. The question, though, is whether the added unsprung weight of LT tires is noticeable in terms of both wear and tear -- and that is awfully hard to answer.

The new TRD wheels from BBS are about 10 lbs less per wheel than the stock rims, IIRC. That would be an improvement, but it is not worth the cost to me. From the moment of inertia perspective, the weight of the tire is more of a concern than the weight of the wheel, as the tire is further from the hub -- but that's just a hypothetical issue without any measurements to back it up.

 

[OregonLC]

More weight is not an ally off-road.

Agreed. However it is an unfortunate but necessary sin.

Our ally is traction and durability. Weight is simply the trade off to achieve those goals. At least with current technology, durability is highly correlated to heft.

 

[M1911]

Our ally is traction and durability. Weight is simply the trade off to achieve those goals. At least with current technology, durability is highly correlated to heft.

That depends upon what part you are talking about.

Are LT tires more durable off-road? Yes. But added weight adds more stress to everything else on the vehicle, reducing durability. Is the added weight of a modestly-sized LT tire likely to measurably impact durability of suspension and driveline components? I think that is possible but unlikely.

But, in general, weight on the vehicle is bad for durability. If you watch the Youtube channel 4Wheeling Australia, you've seen Ronny build up his 70 series to the point where it was very heavy and he was breaking a lot of things when off-road (axles, diffs, etc.). He has since significantly changed his vehicle to reduce weight, in order to improve durability.

That is what I was objecting to -- the suggestion that extra weight is good off-road. It isn't.

 

[OregonLC]

^^ I don't disagree with that statement. That has actually been a common theme in my life. Any modification can be a slippery slope; fix one problem yet cause two others. Big tires solve the problem of traction and obstacle clearance. Big tires also hit fuel econ and add stress to other mechanical bits.

However, there are a range of readers on IH8MUD. Some novice and some with enough experience to interpret your statement correctly. My concern with simply stating 'weight is not an ally' is that a newbie 200 owner (who may never have seen a trail in his life) may read that and go buy a C rated highway tire on the basis of 'any weight is bad' when the best tire for his needs may actually be a 33" E rated KO2 (or whatever). Not dismissing the validity of minimizing weight wherever it makes sense, just trying to put an asterisk at the end of the statement pointing the user to the conclusion that weight is part of the decision, but not the entire decision. Cool?

Now for fun, let's debate tall and skinnies!

 

[eatSleepWoof]

Now for fun, let's debate tall and skinnies!

Pros:
- generally considered attractive (in most cultures)
- alleviates the bi-weekly "honey, can you get X from the top shelf?" requests

Cons
- may tower over you when a 3" lift is applied for nights-out/restaurants
- questionable stability, especially on off-camber surfaces

 

[OregonLC]

^^ Now that's funny. There are a number of those in CA with aftermarket bumpers.

 

[Angelo1]

Would you consider a 285/75/17 a tall and skinny, therefore not making a great “safe” tire for highway and off camber situations during off-road

 

[OregonLC]

^^ If you want four opinions on this ask three off road guys.

As with weight, the diameter, width, and profile are in many flavors because there are many needs. I personally wouldn't consider a 285/75/R17 skinny. You could consider it tall both because of the 75 profile and the ~ 33.8" diameter.

Whether 'great' or 'safe' would be up to your driving style, loads, CG, etc. You could be improving trail safety while degrading road safety.

 

[Angelo1]

^^ If you want four opinions on this ask three off road guys.

As with weight, the diameter, width, and profile are in many flavors because there are many needs. I personally wouldn't consider a 285/75/R17 skinny. You could consider it tall both because of the 75 profile and the ~ 33.8" diameter.

Whether 'great' or 'safe' would be up to your driving style, loads, CG, etc. You could be improving trail safety while degrading road safety.

Lol! I don’t drive aggressively in the LC on road. 80mph is my max speed on highway. Hauling family around, I’m all about safety, big reason I bought this rig. The 285/75/17 might be the ticket

 

[Markuson]

Would you consider a 285/75/17 a tall and skinny, therefore not making a great “safe” tire for highway and off camber situations during off-road

Only think they are “skinny” compared to my former 35x12.5.

You be the judge if these are skinny.
I honestly find them tobea near perfect size on andoff road. i have tried many sizes& this is my performance favorite.