Understanding Import Cruiser Prices

[lumpy70]

Aside from the Landcruiser quality, and the uniquness of the 70 series, the reason I love my cruiser is the diesel. Pure and simple.

I used to own european cars, they're quick, light, rev nice and high, good mileage, and generally can go most places on road in the snow because of the front wheel drive.

Then I got a diesel. I vow I will never go back. The diesel have very unique characteristics which made it very enjoyable to drive. It is a very visceral feeling. They're extremely torquey, and feel indestructable.

In fact, when I'm driving in the middle of nowhere in my cruiser (highway or offroad), the engine itself is the last thing I worry about.

Economy, longevity, torque characteristics, fuel prices and even environmentalism (diesels pollute WAY less thna gassers) are all reasons to own one.

Add in a rust free body, low kms, and a turbo, and you've got it made.

My two cents,
Craig.

 

[RIDDLER]

Some thoughts prices

Don't you think that the high prices for all those import rare diesel cruisers is simply a niche product being priced (overpriced) as high as the market will allow? Honestly, I am a very frugal person and I have weighed for years the prices on the importers websites, ebay, and the classifieds. I bet the importers are making 35% or more on those high end cruisers. That is what is driving the prices. I may get flamed for this but think about all the hassle the importers go through. They would not do it for the average 5 to 15 percent sales margin in used cars or trucks. I have watched the prices and tried for years to justify the cost to import a high end loaded diesel landcruiser wagon into the states. We instead bought a loaded 97' 80 series for 10k less than the high end diesels and the difference in fuel costs will take maybe 5 years or more to work against me. Plus I don't have to sell my soul to a importer.

I have seen several posts from folks trying to understand the high prices of these rare diesel cruisers and it seems to be beyond logic to me. Also RHD is not something that is easy to overcome IMO and it should not be minimized. There are tons of dead tourists who forget which side is which just that one time. I drove on the other side for a day in Barbados and told myself I would never play with fate that way again.

Why not just find a rust free FJ60 that one could swap a cummins 4bt into for $5k. If the truck costs $5k then you have $10k into it then how can that compare to the rusted out 400k BJ60's that you would have to fight to import into the states? We have no smog laws so why not try the same conversion into a 80 series? Why don't more US cruiser folks pursue that conversion if diesel is so highly desired? Has anyone put a cummins diesel in a 80 series?

 

[beanz2]

My theory is the rarer a vehicle is, the more people are willing to pay for it.

We may forever argue about the economics of a diesel engine swap or the characteristics of a diesel engine vs. a gasser, etc., but at the end of the day there is something a diesel cruiser has over a gasser and even over a converted gasser, uniqueness. To me at least, there is something desirable about a diesel cruiser that was manufactured as such, solely because of the rarity of such beasts here. The less likely it is to reach these shores, the more desirable it is. I'd argue that in similar shape, a Japanese market HJ61 will be priced more (reflecting market demand) than a Canadian market HJ60, which in turn will be priced more than a US market FJ60.

I'd venture a guess that in markets where the diesel version is just as available as the gasser (e.g. Oz), the price difference isn't as much.

Dave

 

[mot]

The price difference in the gasoline and diesel Cruisers are not too much, but IMO they do exist because of the recent diesel emission restrictions being enforced in large metropolitan cities. So the gasoline models are more desirable, at least in those areas (Tokyo, Osaka, etc... and slowly expanding throughout Japan.)

I have seen the opposite dilemma here, those who own tiesel Cruisers contemplating gasoline engine conversion! So, theoretically, obtaining a diesel engines or diesel Cruisers should be cheaper than the gasoline counterparts.

And as far as driving on the "wrong" side...
Well, driving on the wrong side of the road can prove challengins, at least at first, but you get used to it. And driving on the same side of the road that you are used to in a vehicle with the steering wheel on the wrong side is not that difficult. My father has an older Volvo which is a LHD here in Japan and I don't have any problems driving it although the streets are MUCH narrower than those in Canada and the US. Also my British friends who drive a LHD Audi here are not complaining, either.

So it must not be that big of a deal. In fact, it's kind of a status(sp) thing to many who are driving expensive German imports, to be driving rare models in their product lines that are not available in the RHD form.

Mot

 

[crushers]

Riddler,
is the H2 worth the price? is the new diesel trucks Ford, Dodge, GM worth half the price of my house? not in my books, is the new tundra worth the asking price? not to me but lots are being sold.

importers take all the risk, they trust there contacts in Japan. they send thousands of dollars every month to a bank account overseas with NO way of getting the money back should the contact decide to skip out. We have our money tied up for months before we even get to see the trucks.

once they find a place on a ship for the ride over we have to pay again in advance. customs and rail at this end and finally we get to see the units. then there is storage here and some of us 'rust proof' the vehicles, shine guard, fabric guard, change out all the fluids, mains in the HDT, timing belts in those with them, inspections here and any minor repairs that are needed. some of us actually stand behind our warranties, find the RHD parts for our customers as well as get very versed in the newer models that we bring in. we hunt out ways to modify and improve that already appealing units. we source out the PROPER manuals for our customers that want to work on their own trucks.

there are those that do take the risk and bring in their own trucks and more power to them, I have also seen the result of some of these personal endeavors and I feel for them. everyone can buy without an importer helping along but if you loose $10,000 to $20,000 it can hurt and for a long time.

we spend days, even weeks, searching for quality units and hundreds $$ in phone calls overseas. it takes time to find someone you trust and this is no easy task either. the contact needs to know land cruisers and be able to converse understandably with you AND you need to be able to TRUST them.

Finally, I really doubt any importer will be paying off his house in the near future on the profit we make off these trucks.

as for RHD, if YOU do not feel comfortable driving one then DO NOT buy one.

I take each and every prospective customer out for at least a total of 1 1/2 hours of test drives to make sure he/she is comfortable behind the wheel. if they are nervous or if I do not think they can handle the RHD I will not sell it to them. if they wish to come back and go again then I will. I want a happy customer not a dead or injured one.

women are much better at driving the RHD than men, we get over confident too fast. women seem to concentrate more and longer.

as for these report of accidents, I have not read a single one happening in Canada but I will take your word, "Also RHD is not something that is easy to overcome IMO and it should not be minimized. There are tons of dead tourists who forget which side is which just that one time."

on a personal note:
you for one should not drive RHD if you do not feel comfortable but at the same time to tell everyone that RHD is dangerous is wrong. not everyone has the same driving ability that you do. maybe you just need a good teacher??

Finally, how many accidents EVERYDAY happen in LHD vehicles in North America?
cheers
Wayne

 

[RIDDLER]

Import RHD landcruisers

Wayne- Thanks for the note. I will reply one at a time

is the H2 worth the price?

(reply) I would not ever buy a H2. However, they are made for US roads and the wheel is on the side that US drivers are formally trained.

"as for RHD, if YOU do not feel comfortable driving one then DO NOT buy one."

(reply) Thanks for the direction here, you have made it so clear to me.

"I take each and every prospective customer out for at least a total of 1 1/2 hours of test drives to make sure he/she is comfortable behind the wheel. if they are nervous or if I do not think they can handle the RHD I will not sell it to them. if they wish to come back and go again then I will. I want a happy customer not a dead or injured one."

(reply) I truly doubt that every importer operates this way but serious kudo's to you for the ethics. Hmmm. It's funny how the listings, websites, or ads for these RHD trucks never mention the training you offer?

"as for these report of accidents, I have not read a single one happening in Canada but I will take your word, "Also RHD is not something that is easy to overcome IMO and it should not be minimized. There are tons of dead tourists who forget which side is which just that one time." on a personal note: you for one should not drive RHD if you do not feel comfortable but at the same time to tell everyone that RHD is dangerous is wrong. not everyone has the same driving ability that you do. maybe you just need a good teacher??"

(reply) Wayne- How is it wrong to mention caution as I have experience driving a RHD truck on U.S. roads. You sound like a guy who wants to continue to use this board to market his product aggressively without anyone mentioning anything but positive? Either way, you totally misunderstood my statement.

(reply continued) About my driving abilities and needing a teacher. I drive 50,000 miles a year for work and have topped 250,000 miles since 1997 without a single ticket, accident, or even a scratch on my car. Not trying to brag but I feel that I can defend myself. Having been stationed in the military in Europe/Australia and living there I was able to see a few writeups in the papers about accidents caused by U.S. based drivers who lacked experience with RHD and the other side driving. I have also driven a RHD truck on U.S. roads for a few months in 1996. Now I don't know if the accidents were written up for the BBC as these were US military folks and their families. Some of these drivers were younger but some were older officers also. Let's see if I can make this really clear: The accidents happen in RHD vehicles when U.S. based tourists go to Europe and drive their RHD cars and trucks on the other side of the road. I know nothing about Canadian accident stats and that was not my point. It seems that many importers are selling to folks outside of Canada right? Well then what happens outside of Canada matters too right? Specifically, I was only speaking from experience living in Europe in the 80's and reading a few articles in the paper where a American family was in a accident due to inexperience with opposite side driving and/or RHD vehicles. Obviously it appears that you want to be able to sell without any balance or limitations being mentioned by the others on this board. If you use a board to sell something shouldn't others be able to mention some cautions also. I have seen others promote without balance/caution for a few years and they no longer sell here as far as I can tell (VOR)

"Finally, how many accidents EVERYDAY happen in LHD vehicles in North America?"

(reply)I don't know, but how does this relate? to RHD trucks on U.S. roads. The point I made was opposite side driving with RHD trucks and some caution being applied in their promotion.

thanks for all the comments and we can take this offline if you like so others don't have to witness.

Again cheers,

Aaron



cheers
Wayne

 

[Stone]

All I can say is that if you want to save the money and import the vehicle yourself...by all means do it. But if you wish to purchase a vehicle that somebody has gone through the risk and trouble in landing it in your backyard (and believe me, there's a lot of headaches involved), then expect to pay a premium. Importers are just making a living just like anyone else, why begrudge them a 30-35% markup (if that's even true...cetainly not for everyone of them). All it takes is one lousy vehicle to show up in their shipment and they could be set back a few thousand dollars in order to make that vehicle marketable (either fixing it up or discounting heavily to reflect the condition). In every other business, a 30-40% markup is considered essential and accepted to keep a business afloat. Why would it be so terribly different for an importer?

 

[RIDDLER]

Importer prices

About my post. I wasn't taking a shot if their profit margin is 35% or whatever it is. I don't know what it is? I am curious to know what it is but only for the sake of the conversation.

"The prices are usually in the teens (Canadian) and the trucks are late least 15 years old. I just saw an 1990 HDJ81 VX LTD on the Luxury Import sight for $28,000 CDN. I'm not knocking the price, I'm sure it costs a lot to get it from Japan. I just don't get it"

The original post was asking why are the prices so high for rare import RHD diesel PTO cable locker landcruisers. My guess was that the prices are high due to the margin of the importers as it relates to their hassles and operating costs. A margin of 35% or 10% is part of the price. I was only trying to say that my guess was that there is a large margin in these deals just like other high end landcruiser resellers we have seen.

I just want to be clear that I am not begrudging profit, just trying to call it what it is. Money.

Aaron

 

[The Dude]

first, I didn't buy my truck from Wayne, but I would not hesitate purchasing an import from him.

second, why would a vendor (who purchased a red star) come on any site and tell you of all the "bad" things with their products??? I understand your concerns about RHD vehicles, but I honestly don't think it is that big of a deal. I believe Wayne feels the same. Driving on the same side of the road but being positioned on the oppiste side of the truck is completely different then driving on the "wrong" side of the road. If Wayne has a truck with problems, he'll let you know. Go check out the BJ74 he is selling. I don't think I have seen a more honest description of a truck in a classified.

I also am one of those high milage drivers, averaging over 80000km a year. I wouldn't hesitate to let anybody drive my RHD cruiser. they might hit a few curbs on their first corners but once the allure of a rhd vehicle wears off there golden.

and for the mark up comment...30-35%??? I wouldn't have a job if I kept my margins that low.

 

[lumpy70]

I totaly agree Stone.

I love my BJ70. The reason I want a BJ74 or an HJ61 isn't that it's the popular thing to do, it's that a good thing (a Canadian diesel cruiser) is better wit no rust, PTO, A/C, turbo. These are the cruisers that we should have gotten, and the glitches that we complain about in our Cdns ones are ironed out (ie: power, A/C, etc)

Plus, if someone (like me) wants to buy ANY vehicle from whereever (dealer, private sale) is it reasonable to assume that the seller shouldn't make any money?

If I want it, I'll buy it.

Finally, the importers are injecting new life into a dieing breed. FYI, they aren't making any new FJ62's in the US either. If you like cruisers, then be happy that more are available for another 500,000 kms of life (or 200K for gassers)!

If you are bitter about cruisers and diesels, maybe this isn't the right forum for that topic.

Ranting,
Craig.

 

[crushers]

Aaron,

the biggest problem i have with email and internet interactions is the lack of ability to show emotion.

i was not knocking you for your word of caution, at least i didn't mean to. i was agreeing that if someone does not feel comfortable with RHD then don't buy one.

i do not mention the time i spend in the passenger seat with prospective buyers for a reason, it is something that JUST HAPPENS. i want my customers to be comfortable.

the begining of this thread was pointed toward my website and the prices i charge (as well as other importers) that the price is unreasonable. what i am pointing out is if you buy from a reputable importer he will go out of his way to help you get the truck you want, the experience you need as well as after the sale service you deserve.

the reason i mentioned the LHD accidents is because no matter what you drive you could be involved in an accident. just because you are driving a RHD doesn't make it any more unsafe than a LHD. it is the nut behind the wheel of either your car or the on coming car the is the problem.

i mentioned about maybe you need a teacher if you felt uncomfortable not as a slam against you or anyone else that feels nervous about driving a RHD on American roads. obviously you have the experience to do so and have decided not to.

(VOR?)

anyone can mention their opinion of something and as long as they base it on something relevant, facts, or personal experience then by all means mention it. to me, untill i see a rash of RHD accidents happening i will have a hard time believing the RHD is any more dangerous than any other vehicle on the roads today. i know of many people driving RHD as daily drivers for a couple years now and not a single accident. also if the RHD is that dangerous then the insurance companies would not be insuring these vehicles, after all they calculate the risks involved and apply priemiums accordingly.

i am sorry if i come across agressive, i do not mean to.

cheers
Wayne

 

[RIDDLER]

A consensus

No worries Wayne- I wasn't trying as stated before to take a shot on your profit. It is what it is. And it is necessary until governement controls what we buy and from whom. Until I read the teacher comment I was calm. I saw that your message was sent at 4am or thereabouts. Again no problem I understand. I was trying to simple say that it you can't afford to pay for a premium vehicle with premium service then maybe a converted FJ60 or FJ80 is for the guy who cannot afford it. I surely don't want to offend anyone in BC or greater Canada but if a guy only has $10k then he should buy a gasser and convert it or finance one of yours.

Wayne you must be at the top of the stack of importers in Canada. I would buy one of the high end diesel landcruisers sold in canada for the prices charged on your website if they were delivered into the U.S. so I could avoid U.S. Customs issues and a recognizable vin number so that insurance was easy. When I was looking at the sites last year the breaking point was clear. If those trucks were imported to the U.S. I would own one right now.

Again I may be wrong on the last point but I think most of these high end trucks cannot be brought into the US legally.

 

[cruiser_guy]

for me it is the desire to drive something not available here. the idea of havng one of the 2 legaly registered 1997 HZJ75 in NA is cool, the idea of driving the only turbo diesel Mits Jeep in NA is cool, the idea of driving a HDJ81 is cool, the idea of driving a LJ78 is cool...
sure there are others around but i have not had the chance to drive them...
cheers

Wayne,

If you don't mind, I'd like to know how you went about licencing and insuring the HZJ75. Did it get released from the mine to the general population by accident (I've heard that before with a guy at home) or is there a way around the 15 year rule?
I'd really like to be able to bring a truck back from Central America but only if it is legally importable and registerable. Down here all the 'Cruisers are LHD and most are the "poverty pack" which I would likely prefer to all the power windows and all the other bling.
My priority list is turbo diesel, manual, A/C and lockers. The rest is nice but not really important.
If you want you can PM me and keep it off line.

 

[crushers]

i bought it already licensced by the prievious owner back in 1999. as far as i know it is the last legaly registered HZJ75 exmine truck...
cheers

 

[cruiser_guy]

That's kind of what I expected to hear. Mike M in Surrey, B.C. also has one that got released from the mines (while still new) to the general public, much to the chagrin of Toyota Canada. He was telling me there was 2 or 3 that were released and the company that released them got in trouble with Toyota Canada because of it.
I've also heard somewhere that the 15 year limit will be reduced by one year each year until all vehicles worldwide will be admissible, brand new. Is this true? It supposedly happens sometime around 2010 or 2015.

 

[Chef BoyarDEE]

honestly, i think it would be awesome to own a rhd vehicle and i plan to own one come june when i'm done school. i don't think rhd is that big of deal, it might be hard to pass someone on a two lane road and if it's standard it would take some getting used to but rhd is really no different. i am almost 18 now and i have been working at a golf course for about 4 years, i learned how to drive some rhd maintenace vehicles before i even had my drivers liscense, it's not rocket science.

 

[Waggoner5]

I spent a lot on my HJ61. Way too much. But I don't regret it. I have been driving it for almost a year and love it. I will never get rid of it (and I hope it's stopped growiing)

When I looked at "building" what I could buy right from Toyota, the purchase made sense. I bought a perfect, rust free, low KM, loaded, turbo diesel, locked, FF, PTO winch'd land cruiser.

It would of cost me more to build it that way.

I still have my old trusty 40 that is getting hacked up and all the rust removed and the back end shorten'd and its being thrown on a 60 frame with a home brew turbo for the 3B with lockers and toybox and blah blah blah... it's all been done

It's not a RHD HJ61 from Japan...

I too spent to much on my HJ61, but the more I drive it the better I like it. It gets roughly 20mpg, Pulls really strong once you get it wound up, and wheels almost better than my tricked out 62. It now has 39k miles on it and is retired from heavy wheeling after ICBM.

 

[beanz2]

I second Wayne with driving a RHD car in a LHD world. It takes a lot more adjustment for person trained in a LHD world to drive a RHD car in a RHD traffic than the same person driving a RHD car in LHD traffic. At least in the LHD world, you still turn in a RHD vehicle the same way, where as in a RHD traffic mistakes can be deadly.

I wonder though once you get used to driving a RHD vehicle in North America if it would be much easier to drive in Oz or the UK?

Dave

 

[crushers]

one way to find out...so do i book one ticket or two?

 

[crushers]

That's kind of what I expected to hear. Mike M in Surrey, B.C. also has one that got released from the mines (while still new) to the general public, much to the chagrin of Toyota Canada. He was telling me there was 2 or 3 that were released and the company that released them got in trouble with Toyota Canada because of it.
I've also heard somewhere that the 15 year limit will be reduced by one year each year until all vehicles worldwide will be admissible, brand new. Is this true? It supposedly happens sometime around 2010 or 2015.

yah, as far as i know Mike and i have the only 2 legaly registered 1997 HZJ75s in NA the rest are 1996 and back...