Two Questions If I May - 2F Engine

[love2fly]

Stock 2F engine

1. Picture-
Today I am taking the time to get my truck ready for the upcoming winter and taking advantage of 70 degree day to accomplish this along with a beverage.
While checking the choke adjustment and all between I was looking at the heat control valve located on the exhaust manifold. I decide to add this to my checklist for the startup to op temp. I placed a yellow paint dot on the shaft to use as a reference to any movement while warming up. While the engine was reaching operating temperature I noticed the yellow dot was not moving. Taped with a small hammer, shot it with some liquid wrench, no movement even at op temp. Put a industrial heat gun right up next to the spring coil and had movement about 1/4 upward to where it held in that position. I do not have a outer balance weight on the side as some (not sure if I should) so I cannot move the shaft manually to do a feel travel test. The question - isn't this heat control valve suppose to open and stay open until engine cool down with more than a 1/4 turn on the shaft?

2. Picture-
Also saw some oil on the side of the engine block so cleaned it up - after start up some what maybe fuel from the intake manifold dripped back down to the same area on the block. Looked up under the manifold with a mirror and light and saw small area where that oily dark drip came from. I have had problems with my car leaking fuel into the manifold. The question - could this be just residue from that and seeping out on startup?

Thanks guys hope the pictures help.

 

[sometlc]

Not sure but at 70º ambient temp it would be warm enough to be open. Oil coming out of your manifold would indicate an issue. Start with a compression test.

 

[love2fly]

Still working the heat valve issue, letting it sit over night with a good dose of liquid wrench. As for the oil/fuel drip I checked the engine oil and it has no smell of fuel. I sure do not want fuel in the oil to break down the oil protection on the piston rings on the cylinder walls. I may do a compression check in a few days. I did some more investigating on the internet and most problems arising with my truck seems to be more related to the ethanol fuels.
It seems to have a lower boiling point so after a good drive on a hot day the old carburetor is being cooked with heat (no carb fan). Kind of like a vapor lock but not really the same. I removed my fuel line from the fuel pump to carb and warped it with exhaust wrap to help insulate the line due to when hot the ethanol fuel will expand in hot lines and draw up from the pump into the carb which maybe one of the problems. It looks as we owner of the older Toys are in for some real pain with the fuels the governments are sending our way. It already has devastated the aviation community big time with 100LL now at $5.80 $6.00 gallon, can't use ethanol fuels.
Thanks

 

[sggoat]

Looks like oil maybe dripping onto the stud connections on the block-correct? Likely leaking out of the exhaust mani--may be some issues with valves here--do as sometic suggests--compression check. Also look under the mani to see exactly which cylinder it's coming from--(4/5/6) Could be the valve guides are worn, allowing oil to seep down into the chamber(s) and then out the exhaust. Take a look at the plugs in those cylinders too--they will tell you a lot about the combustion there. What does the tail pipe interior look like? carbon/oily? The leak looks too small to show up as an increased oil usage issue.
From the look of the pic, it appears this has just recently started. best to get it solved before the valves are compromised.

 

[shawnfj40]

If you look into the throat of your carb when the motor is hot and you see fuel dripping into the intake it is boiling out. there is always a tiny bit of oil that gets sucked into the intake through the PCV and vent hoses. raw fuel will wash that out. Your heat riser looks odd can you get better picks from different angles? It might be that it is fixed in the open position on purpose.

 

[love2fly]

First thanks for the respond, nice to have others to ask questions too. As always some things are obvious fixes and some can be complex with many possibilities.
I have to mention I have set the carb float to factory specs three times thinking it was a float issue, or needle valve but no change.
I am not a 100% convinced that the dark oily looking substance is caused by the ethanol fuels used today but it has a lot of the characteristics of ethanol related evils. I will also point out that I did install a while back a outside ram air tube (3") to my air cleaner intake horn. I am wondering if I now while driving I am squeezing to much ram air volume into the carb causing fuel and air problems, like blowing up a balloon.
When viewed with a flashlight and mirror it looks to be coming from the area shown in the diagram with red arrow. Not sure what side of the exhaust gasket it drips from but I have wiped it out with a flat tip with rag attached and it will return after a 20-30 minute drive.
I adjusted the engine valves a few weeks ago and first thought it was a valve cove gasket leak but that seems not to be the predicament.
Tail pipe finger check shows light black kind of gray/black mix no oily composition to it. Looked inside and looks the same.
Engine has about 2,000 mile maybe now, so I will do as sggoat recommended and check the plugs, and a compression check before I go tearing off the manifold system. The gasket will have to go anyway if it’s been compromised with oil/fuel.
The heat control valve seems to be accurate when compared to the parts book. The two nuts I put on the end thinking it would keep the spring in place.
PVC is new checked all the ventilation hoses and looks to be okay. I remember when installing it, testing it on the beach with a propane torch, it worked fine. Maybe getting stuck from the fuel/oil in the system. I will try to get a improved picture of the heat control valve.
Thanks guys.

 

[love2fly]

Just completed step one plug removal and it is a horrible thing to find. The pictures tells the story of the find. The plugs are not brut or melted at the electros as I first thought when viewing just caked on some with semi hard carbon/oil deposits. The plugs are less than four months since install, plug wires at the same time. They are correct plugs from what the book call for- BPR4EY. The evidence on the plugs show that the problem mainly could be carbon fouling from oil leakage, PVC or spark plug problems. I am going to get hold of a boar scope in a few days and check the cylinders/piston. As you can see the plugs have a certain amount tan color still on the electrodes tips so this is a good sign in a way telling me that either the plugs are not getting the correct amount of spark but trying or wrong plugs all together (not hot), plug wires are crap (could be), coil weak, distributor failing, or the ethanol fuel is playing havoc, or all the above.

 

[love2fly]

Compression test completed - from front to rear
145 - 144 - 144 - 145 - 144 - 145 PSI
Engine not hot just warm

 

[sometlc]

I think that it is an ignition problem for sure. Your compression is okay and the plugs dont seem to be oily or wet. My guess is that your valves will be fine.

Good luck to you.

 

[sggoat]

Compression numbers look good.
That #5 plug is UUUGGGLy--agree with your assessment of carbon fouling(#3 doesn't look that great either) Exhaust check you did(color) seems normal.
It may be the pic angle(or just my goofy eyesight), but the plug gaps look a little different.
I would check the resistance of all the plug wires(should be less than 25K ohms), maybe get a new set of NGKs(gap ~.039)- run em for a few hundred miles and check again

 

[love2fly]

Yeah, I have been sweating bullets on this deal. Its starting to look better than grim. New plug wires as stated but as we all know they may have a problem so will give them a check as you mentioned. The plugs do look like well you hit it with UUUGGGLY. I have never had a vehicle that produced plugs like this. They are nasty. My book says .031 (8mm) on the gap, isn't 39 a little much? The BPR4EY plugs are correct (ones in pictures) and are on the hotter side of the BPR5EY plugs that are suggested also. I may try another set of the same to keep things a bit hotter in the cylinders. I stuck an old set of plugs in to get me around and after an hour got home and took a look under the old bonnet to view the oily drip and NONE??? So maybe the plugs are so bad (okay they are bad) that fuel was just not getting completely burned off and dumping. Will give it a few more days of driving and replace the plugs and check the drip. Still working the heat valve. Seems to be freeing up a bit.
sometic mentioned the ignition may be at fault or part. Funny you say that as when I turn the ignition switch off and listen to any sounds under the hood I hear two sounds, one is the carb solenoid (normal) the other is the - negative terminal on the coil. Gives a snap sound as like a short or crack. Is this a norm for a coil. Sometimes when I turn the key off the sound is at the distributor cap?? Put a test light on the neg side and it will light up dimly just for a second when the key is turned off from on.
Thanks very much

 

[sometlc]

Do you have a good strong spark? weak ignition will cause plugs to get dry sooty deposits on them. Is your carb burning rich? That could also be the culprit. Make sure your air filter is clean as well.

All simple things to check. Good luck tracking down the problem.

 

[FJ40Jim]

Please specify the year, model, market when asking for help.

Random facts that may be relevant:

The heat valve only rotates 90* max.

Plugs are carbon fouled. Could be normal w/ new engine break in and burning off assembly lube. Install new set of W14EXR-U or BPR4EY (hottest numbers available) and see how they look after a few more tanks of gas.

You mention resetting float level to correct some other issue. The float level should be adjusted so fuel level is on the sight glass when engine is running. It doesn't need to be in the middle, it doesn't matter what it does when engine is off.

This is not a weak spark problem. The load on the ignition system is highest at WOT. If the coil was weak or plug wires were leaking, the symptom would be dropping a cylinder(s) under heavy load.

 

[love2fly]

1982 FJ45 - 2F- Non US - RHD - all stock A bit over 2,000 mile SMOH
Thanks Jim
looked on the block side again after a few miles and the drip was back. Decided to remove the carburetor to check of cracks in the manifold floor under the carb base, all looks good other than a puddle of diluted fuel/oil as seen in pictures. Will check the PVC system again in a bit. What looks like cracks are cast marks on the manifold. I cleaned and used a high powered light and mirror and still looks okay. Isolation block looks good but not sure if it needs a second gasket along with the built in gasket as seen. Looked at the carb (you know better than I) and saw not much in the way of concerns other than I am not sure if the secondary throttle plate should be more in the open position with the primary valve fully open as seen in photo.
The small tab looks to be just touching when opened all the way.
Yes the fuel is level when viewed running. Had BPR4EY's installed and they cleaned up good. Have BPR5EYs in right now until I get this carb/manifold/fuel/oil problem figured out. I know photos are always best references so I have included a few incase someone see something that I may have overlooked. Also no black or blue exhaust smoke with instant RPM added and released.
Will add that I checked the Exhaust/intake mainifold torques and they were @ 35-36 ft. lbs.
Big thanks

 

[love2fly]

A few more pictures
Cheers

 

[sometlc]

I didnt realize that it was a fresh rebuild being broke in. I might be wrong about the spark….. I did some research and found this fron an old haynes manual. It doesnt seem to be that far of a stretch to think ignition problems. Very simple and easy to check though. Sometimes the simple gets overlooked.

 

[love2fly]

Well I think its pretty much broken in by now, already had two oil changes and a whole summer of high heat.
I saw something similar in one of my old school auto maintains books. Will be checking into the whole ignition system shortly. Just have to iron out a few little things with the carb before reinstallation. One is the secondary butterfly opening. Says to open primary and with a degree gauge cheek the angle of the secondary @ 25 degrees angle just before it starts to open. I do not have an angle gauge so is there an alternative to the check like with a mm wire, 1mm or ?
Thanks

 

[FJ40Jim]

The secondary bump is to ensure the 2ndary isn't stuck closed, so the relatively weak vacuum can open it without difficulty. As long as it knocks it open 1-2mm, it's fine. Focus on the important stuff: getting the cold BPR5's replaced with the correct BPR4s, and make sure the intake tract & exhaust are clear (clean air filter, choke open, no restriction in cat or muff...). Then drive it hard for a while & re-check plugs.

 

[love2fly]

Thanks Jim for the information on the secondary's settings. It is good and loose so it should be functioning okay. Set @ 2mm. for my reff.
Bore scoped all cylinder's last night, all good. FJ40Jim, on the carb isolation block, are any other gasket required other than the factory ones imbedded to the block, book is vague? All you mentioned I had previously checked (no cat). With that said I agree all I can do is put it back together and give it a work out.
Todd thanks for the PM with photo reff. I did check the the Exhaust/intake manifold torques as stated in above post. I was thinking also as you said that if loose that would aid in causing this type of issue. Last complete engine major component re-torque was 400 or so miles ago (#2) SMOH.
The Jet Check was Primary-132 Secondary - 200
Will update in a week on findings. Will also check heat valve ops.

Thanks guys.

 

[FJ40Jim]

The insulator block looks good. The OEM gasket material is still bonded to the insulator and appears quite re-useable.