Turbo is in!

[scottryana]

No the SC is limited by rpm and Pulley size, not BOV, but yes he has to watch his AFR'S and be careful about when he boosts, etc. He mentions in his thread or the 0-60 thread that he can not mash on it from stop and has to roll into the closed loop section.

 

[Trux]

I see, I see master Yota-scottyrana- be careful with boost you must.

And the supercharger is controlled by rpm of the screws or the computer?

 

[scottryana]

Rpm of the screws as a ratio of Pulley size on the drive of the SC to the crank Pulley. No computer control at all.

 

[Trux]

I see. Very interesting.

Now, i get the whole tps system, and open/closed loop- but is this just us spec for gas savings/ emissions or ?

There are much more simple ways to control the throttle without all the computer mess. Is it just for space age design? The whole system of open/closed loop that cant be flashed on the ecu and changed settings seems - over thought out to me.

 

[scottryana]

It was an afterthought. The TRD system was not brought to market when the 80 was engineered.

The TRD guys basically put a system together that works as well as they possibly could when dealing with the stock 80 computer. That's why I have said you can't just boost away the stock computer will not deal with the extra air and it is just a coincidence that you can get the boost points to line up fairly close with the open loop, where the stock computer runs overly rich if you choose the right compresser map.

 

[Trux]

Completely agree and understand. Ive read several of your informative posts. Thats why all my posts were strictly less than >8psi without the injector upgrades, tuning etc.

But thats why i was wondering why the 80 computer was so strict with no flashing , tps , etc - seems like US emissions / safety problems that the Nissan Skylines of the same time period had getting DOT approved

 

[scottryana]

No its been the way Toyota has done their computers since the early 90's. They have been very tight lipped about engine control and for the most part none of the aftermarket engine controllers have cracked the ECU code. Not even the supra ECU which I bet is one of the most tuned engines there is. there isn't a flash for the stock computer and everyone uses a piggyback or standalone. With much much less tuner support for the 1FZ it's basically the same piggyback which presents it's own problems or standalone.

 

[Robb235]

The filters have oil in them. The methanol is well methane alcohol. And putting the turbo too close (like the cone filters some have attached to the turbo ) to the filter has made it catch fire.

Its in youztube i believe as well as other forums ive seen. (Sorry/ Didn't know what other face to put for mud forums?)

Methane alcohol? Lol, c'mon man, it's methyl alcohol, aka "wood alcohol". Don't drink it, you'll go blind.

But seriously, I'm not sure I follow what you're saying. It's not like your injecting that stuff onto the hotside of the turbo or something. I don't see why it would be at risk for catching fire? Besides, generally people tend to run a 50/50 mix of methanol and water, which doesn't quite go BOOM like pure methanol would.

 

[Robb235]

I was explaining that the size (forced air/ psi production) of the turbo or supercharger doesnt matter in the whole scheme of things - bc any extra power(forced air) that the engine couldn't handle- is completely negated by the bov (failsafe)- and the computer should never run lean (over compensate - was probably the better term) bc you arent pushing the computer past its wide open throttle fuel limits. But anything over 7-8psi will ruin your AFR at some point and cause many problems.

Just for clarity, I think you're referring to the wastegate, not the Blow Off Valve. The BOV does not protect against overboosting. That would be the job of the wastegate, which is located on the hotside (not the cold side).

 

[Robb235]

But it absolutely will run too lean. It will run 14.7:1 under boost if you are boosting when the computer thinks you should be in standard closed loop operation. You hit a long Hill with low throttle input, but medium load and a small compressor will create say 3-4psi of positive manifold pressure, the stock computer will be in closed loop because you haven't satisfied the Throttle Position Sensor requirements to switch over to open loop and you are now running too lean (14.7:1) for a motor at 3-4psi on 91-93 octane fuel.

To me, that scenario you've described would be a prime example where water/methanol injection would shine. Have it turn on right as you start building boost, cooling down you're intake charge while at the same time adding fuel to the mix.

 

[scottryana]

Yep, but your O2 sensor still sees that extra fuel and cuts back injector pulse width to get back to 14.7:1. You have to also fool the O2 sensor.

 

[Robb235]

Yep, but your O2 sensor still sees that extra fuel and cuts back injector pulse width to get back to 14.7:1. You have to also fool the O2 sensor.

The ECU may or may not react in time to pull fuel, but regardless, you're injecting a mixture that cools down your IAT (helping prevent pinging), and also increases the net octane of your intake charge (further helping against knocking).

 

[scottryana]

Yeah I know I have water meth injection.

And yes the computer does react fast enough to keep you too lean. But there are many ways to skin a cat. If you want to stay as stock as possible you can fool the O2 with an URD O2 tuner.

 

[Trux]

Just for clarity, I think you're referring to the wastegate, not the Blow Off Valve. The BOV does not protect against overboosting. That would be the job of the wastegate, which is located on the hotside (not the cold side).

No I was talking about the BOV and meant to also add the wastegate as the other failsafe. But it still makes the point/sense i was making. But the BOV definitely does protect against back pressure and surges to the whole system- especially larger turbos / bigger boost levels. The wastegate does for the other side like you added yes.

As for the methanol - spell check changed it to methane from methyl, but methanol comes from methane so its not far off from what i was getting at anyway. Ones a liquid , others a gas. Mostly same chemical makeup, similar properties when burned.

But improper plumbing and putting it too close to the turbo- whether the lines or the usually plastic holding tanks ive seen- in the small engine compartment can cause problems. Its a Fuel. Usually why most people keep in in the trunk and treat the plumbing like fuel line plumbing. It WILL catch fire. And cheap cone filters sprayed with it have caught fire.

But propane injection is twice the intake charge of what methanol is.

 

[Trux]

And a recirculating blow off valve is probably more suited to the 80 with the MAF sensor, but you could likely make either work with adjustments

 

[Robb235]

I think you misread my post- i wasnt saying the computer compensates like a compressor mapping computer for the supercharger- not at all.

I was explaining that the size (forced air/ psi production) of the turbo or supercharger doesnt matter in the whole scheme of things - bc any extra power(forced air) that the engine couldn't handle- is completely negated by the bov (failsafe)- and the computer should never run lean (over compensate - was probably the better term) bc you arent pushing the computer past its wide open throttle fuel limits. But anything over 7-8psi will ruin your AFR at some point and cause many problems.

No I was talking about the BOV and meant to also add the wastegate as the other failsafe. But it still makes the point/sense i was making. But the BOV definitely does protect against back pressure and surges to the whole system- especially larger turbos / bigger boost levels. The wastegate does for the other side like you added yes.

Then what you're saying makes no sense. The BOV is not a fail safe for overboosting. The only time the BOV springs into action is when the throttle is CLOSED (i.e. the engine is no longer inhaling air), not while the engine is being boosted. The BOV does not protect against overboosting, or factor into AFRs (unless you've placed the BOV somewhere that it interferes with the MAF readings, but that's not what we're discussing here).

Also, your earlier quote about BOVs and blown motors...

I wouldnt say unnecessary but you dont HAVE to run one. Blown engines can be fun, sometimes

This more or less proves you don't know what's going on. The BOVs alleged purpose has nothing to do with protecting the motor, but rather to protect the turbo from off-throttle surge (which isn't harmful, but that's a contested debate for another time). That's the BOV's only purpose. It doesn't even protect from on-throttle surge, which is deadly to a turbo.

 

[scottryana]

Ok guys, that's probably good.

Let's get back to the OP post which is the turbo setup as he installed it. If you have other opinions let's open your own threads on them. Everyone has different ideas. Some good, some bad, and some just need to be experienced.

 

[Trux]

Correct, theyre just ideas. But stagnating into one track mindset of "only im right" is what kills new and better ideas. So does drama queen knowitall attitudes.

 

[scottryana]

Well his technical inputs were good. Let's keep this technical and leave the feelings and name calling out.

 

[mtncruiser97]

Id be more concerned about a broken china turbo fin flying into the intake pipe

I think it would be hard for a 'broken china turbo fin' to get into the intake because it would never make it through the intake cooler heat exchanger.