Truck doesn't start...

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Jun 13, 2008
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Vancouver, B.C.
I put a new battery into my truck today and upon tightening the negative terminal I think I might have shorted something out (there was a spark, and while my turn signal indicators (in the instrument panel) weren't working anymore).

I drove over to a friends house and when I started up the truck again later a loud squeeling noise started coming from the engine. I opened up the hood and it seemed to be coming from the alternator, but I wasn't sure. I started driving and within a minute a loud 'pop' came from the engine. I thought that the alternator belt had broken because the voltage on the voltmeter dropped to zero, so I kept driving, but within a couple of minutes my truck just stalled and died. I again thought that the alternator had failed because upon turning on the headlights they were very dim. After hooking up my battery to another vehicle the voltmeter showed close to 12 volts and the battery shone brightly again, but the truck wouldn't start.

Any ideas of what the problem might be? Something to do with the wiring, starter, ignition switch? Something else?

Thanks for any input.
 
What happens when you turn the key? Anything? Do you have power to the starter? Checked all of your fuses?
 
fusible link? a test light is your friend to see if you have power...


bk
 
Hey, nothing happens when I turn the key, and I didn't check any of the fuses. I'll check them tonight but I thought it might be a little more serious than that (just because of the weird noise it was making when it started, and then the loud 'pop' later on)...

Thanks for the input, and I'll let you know what I find.
 
The loud squealing was the alt belt but what was the pop? Did the battery explode? Even if the alt belt broke, you should still have 12v. And how did you get a short tightening the ground cable?
 
Sounds like to have muliple issues. I can throw out a bunch of guesses but need more info like vehicle, engine, stock or modified, etc....
Hope you didn't release the magic smoke, if so your done for.
 
The fuses seem alright but the turn signals and brake lights won't turn on, and the engine won't 'turn' either... I'm guessing I damaged the the brake light/turn signal circuits when that spark happened but since the car started after that happened I'm guessing that it didn't damage the circuit the starter is on (although I'm sure it's possible)...

As far a the squeling goes it wasn't a typical belt squeal so I can't say for sure if it was a squealing noise but that's what it seemed like at the time... The battery definitely didn't explode. I have close to 12V when I turn the key now but right after that 'pop' it was around 2V I think... As far as the short goes I really don't know... I think I might have touched the positive side of the battery with the handle of the wrench I was using but I don't remember doing so so I doubt that's what happened... I've got a nice burn mark on my finger though now so I guess I'll wear gloves the next time I'm messing around with a battery...

ranger: The vehicle is a 1974 FJ40 with those mods: Chevy 283 V8 (hardened valve seats, etc.), 110 amp alternator, and Mallory distributor. The battery has been moved from under the hood into the tub... It's also running on propane so it has the tanks, mixer, etc. that go along with that setup... The drive train is pretty much stock (it has a Centerforce clutch in it though)... Any guesses, etc. would be appreciated; as would be a clarfication of 'magic smoke' :grinpimp:

Thanks again...
 
Damn... "your done" meaning I need to get some circuits rewired or...?? Like I said: the headlights, stereo, fan, and some gauges (voltmeter in partic.) are working so at least some of the circuits are working...

Any ideas as to what that squealing noise was when I started the engine/was driving, or what that 'pop' might have been?? Also, any idea why the car just died while driving?? Would it be because there was no power to the spark plugs, or something else??

Thanks for any insights... I'll probably end up having to take this thing in to a mechanic or something since it is way beyond my expertise (I can change fluids, do some wiring, and other basic stuff but it sounds like trying to fix whatever happened would be harder than performing brain surgery with a lobotomy and no training)...

Anyways, any ideas as to what happened would still be appreciated (it would probably be helpful if I could give my mechanic some suggestions as to what might have happened, start looking for someone who specializes in this stuff (a wiring shop, etc.), start looking for parts, etc.)...

Gracias.
 
First about the noise, if it is squeeling , it could be from a lose belt or bad bearing, Because you didn't say if that noise changed or went away when you were driving it.
If the noise is grinding , it could be sticking starter.
When you put the neg batt cable and you see spark, this might indicate the possitve side of the circit is touching groung , something is shorted somewhere in the main circit.
You need to trace your main circit and find you short. The batt should be taken back and tested if it is new.
The pop sound could be a main fuse blown.
Also signals not working , more likely the power from the ignition (on) is open, which also may mean power to your ignition is open which means no firing ,no start.
You didn't mention if you have an ameter and if so how it is wired between the batt and alternator.
I am no expert, but I would start testing and checking my circits and see what is getting power and what is not.
The wiring diagram plus an insight to how your 283 and alt is wired would be very helful in saving time checking things out.
The voltmeter might be wired straight to the batt and it will read whatever voltage is present , not much help from that.
No reason to think it is something major yet.
If you are very confident about it, take it to an expert.
And best of luck.
 
Close to 12V? Had 2 volts after the 'pop'? :confused:

Get a volt meter, and determine what the battery voltage is.
If it's under 13.2 volts the battery needs charging.
If it won't charge, trade it in on a new one.
Put a known good battery in the truck. If it starts, measure the voltage at the battery again. It should read above 14 volts. If it doesn't, the alternator is bad. The popping noise could have been the rectifier diodes blowing. I have no idea why it sqeeled first, possible bearing failure, belt too loose.
 
I am going to guess your alt is toast. The squealing sound was the alt giving up due to bearing failure or some electrical failure and the "pop" is when it finally let go. While your alt was dying your truck was probably only running on battery power and now it is severely discharged which is one reason it won't turn over the starter. Your fusible link could also be toast along with any circuit not protected with a fuse.

You are not real clear with your story when you say you have a burn mark on your finger but don't remember arcing your new battery to ground with said wrench... That little incident could have done something to your new battery and it would appear your memory.

Pull the alt and take it to a shop with a tester and someone who knows how to use it. You may as well drag your new battery along and have it tested while you are at it since it may have issues also. Let us know what you find.
 
First about the noise, if it is squeeling , it could be from a lose belt or bad bearing ... If the noise is grinding , it could be sticking starter.

I was hesitant to call the noise a 'squealing' because this wasn't really the kind of 'loose belt' squeal I've heard before... It was more of a loud, rapid 'ehhhh, ehhhhh, ehhhh' sound that seemed to be coming from the alternator.

you didn't say if that noise changed or went away when you were driving it.

Sorry, I should have mentioned that (I meant too, since it's probably pretty important)... After the 'pop,' the noise went away and the engine sounded like it normally sounds when it is running... Because of the voltage drop, etc. I figured the alt. belt had snapped, since the noise seemed to be coming from the alt. when I looked under the hood (although that didn't really make sense to me since belts usually squeal when they're loose and I didn't think that a loose belt could/would snap). Since I was only a few minutes away from home, I thought I could get home on just the battery.

When you put the neg batt cable and you see spark, this might indicate the possitve side of the circit is touching groung , something is shorted somewhere in the main circit. You need to trace your main circit and find you short. The batt should be taken back and tested if it is new.

Thanks, apparently the truck has a 'drain' (short?) in it somewhere (the PO told me his friend had rewired a lot of the stuff but that I should keep the negative terminal disconnected overnight, etc. or else the battery will drain). The battery isn't exactly 'new' (it's a 1-2 year old deep cycle battery that doesn't get much use -- I just needed something to start the truck with temporarily).

The pop sound could be a main fuse blown.
That would be nice, but I'm guessing, now that you know the 'pop' sound put and end to the 'squealing', it might have been the alt., etc. going??

Also signals not working , more likely the power from the ignition (on) is open, which also may mean power to your ignition is open which means no firing ,no start.

You didn't mention if you have an ameter and if so how it is wired between the batt and alternator.

The ammeter is the standard, in-dash one that comes with (all?) FJ40s... I'm pretty sure it was reading below 0 after the 'pop'...

I am no expert, but I would start testing and checking my circits and see what is getting power and what is not. The wiring diagram plus an insight to how your 283 and alt is wired would be very helful in saving time checking things out.

That's a good idea, but it will definately take a while: it seems there has been a lot of re-wiring in this thing but since I didn't do it and have no diagram showing how it was done it'll probably be a learning experience.

The voltmeter might be wired straight to the batt and it will read whatever voltage is present , not much help from that.

It's very possible: when I had the jumper cables hooked up to the battery and another running car the voltmeter was up around 12 V.

No reason to think it is something major yet. If you are very confident about it, take it to an expert.
And best of luck

I'll do what I can about it but I'll probably end up taking it in to a wiring shop or something... Might be best to just get the whole thing re-wired properly rather than trying to figure it all out (like I said, I can do a bit of wiring but a lot of this stuff will probably be beyond me).

Close to 12V? Had 2 volts after the 'pop'? :confused:
Yeah, it was weird... It seemed that my gauge cluster had lost power: the most noticable thing was that the voltmeter was reading around 2V (maybe closer to 0)...

If it starts, measure the voltage at the battery again. It should read above 14 volts. If it doesn't, the alternator is bad.

Thanks, I'll try that out...


I am going to guess your alt is toast. The squealing sound was the alt giving up due to bearing failure or some electrical failure and the "pop" is when it finally let go. While your alt was dying your truck was probably only running on battery power and now it is severely discharged which is one reason it won't turn over the starter. Your fusible link could also be toast along with any circuit not protected with a fuse.

Thanks, that sounds like what I thought might have happened at first... However, since the truck wouldn't 'jump start,' I thought it might have been something else... The battery seems to be holding some charge after the jump start: the headlights glow brightly, and it's registering around 11V on the voltmeter but it might be a little too low. I'll try jump starting it again, and charging the battery and let you know how that works...

You are not real clear with your story when you say you have a burn mark on your finger but don't remember arcing your new battery to ground with said wrench... That little incident could have done something to your new battery and it would appear your memory.

Basically I connected the positive terminal to the battery, tightened it, then connected the negative terminal to the battery and while I was tightening it it shocked me. I was using a metal wrench so I thought it might be possible that I touched the positive temrinal with the other side of the wrench or something (I don't know if this would do anything or not). I'm pretty sure that the negative terminal was in contact with the negative battery post the whole time but since there was arcing maybe not... At first, the negative terminal was a bit too tight when I was putting it onto the post so I think I loosened it up a bit and maybe that's when the arcing happened but I'm pretty sure it was while the terminal was on the post and I was tightening it... Even if there was arcing from the terminal to the ground though, could this have fried the brake light/turn signal circuits?

Pull the alt and take it to a shop with a tester and someone who knows how to use it. You may as well drag your new battery along and have it tested while you are at it since it may have issues also. Let us know what you find.

I'm gonna try to get the car running before I test the alt., but can't the alt. be tested while it's in the vehicle (the way Coolerman suggested)?? The last time my alt. went I had a friend of mine replace it for me. He ended up replacing it with a used one and couldn't figure out why he wasn't getting a reading on the tester while the car was running... I ended up taking the car in to a place that specializes in auto. electrics and the guy told me the alt. was fried... Go figure...

This may sound stupid, but I ve seen it before. a guy at work hooked the cable up backwards and it did pretty much what your describing. Truck did crank and the alt fried and the battery blew a hole in the side of it.

The terminals were connected to the correct posts (+ to +, - to -), and the battery is in one piece.



Thanks again. I'll try to jump it in a couple of hours/start it up with a different battery (and this one, once it's charged) and let you know what I find (I've got some snow to shovel over here, etc.). In the meantime, if the fact that the 'squealing' went away after the 'pop' means anything to anyone please post what it could have been.

:beer:
 
11 volts on your battery is way too low to start the truck... But the battery is the least of your problems. I think your battery ground cable is not grounded properly or faulty. The arcing you got when you hooked it up is due to resistance and your parasitic drain or short in your electrical system. Do you have the body, engine, frame, and battery all grounded? It sounds like the PO's buddy hacked your wiring pretty good when they installed the V8. Unless you fix your underlying wiring issue you are going to continue to burn up alts and batteries is my guess.
 
diodes

Hmmm,

I am thinking alternator diode failure/shorted---(they will squeal too due to vibration when they are failing and pop when they go)
diodes can just go or it can also happen from wrong polarity
fusible link may also have blown as a result

so w/o looking at a schematic my guess is alternator and fusible link
 
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Loosed up your alternator and spin the pulley...does it spin? Free and smooth?

Yes, the alternator spins (seemingly free and smooth)...

Do you have the body, engine, frame, and battery all grounded? It sounds like the PO's buddy hacked your wiring pretty good when they installed the V8. Unless you fix your underlying wiring issue you are going to continue to burn up alts and batteries is my guess.

Thanks for the heads-up... I think the V8 was installed a few years ago and the re-wiring job was recent. The PO told me that his buddy was a "wiring freak" or something and had re-wired most of it. I took that to mean that he had re-wired most of it and had done a decent job on it but maybe that wasn't the case... I didn't think that the drain would cause any major issues (esp. since the PO told me he was using this truck as a DD for a while), and that it was just something connected in circuit without a switch, but maybe it is...

Hmmm,

I am thinking alternator diode failure/shorted---(they will squeal too due to vibration when they are failing and pop when they go)
diodes can just go or it can also happen from wrong polarity
fusible link may also have blown as a result

so w/o looking at a schematic my guess is alternator and fusible link

I'll get the alt. tested a.s.a.p (if I can get this thing running again)...



I charged that battery up overnight and tried starting the truck up today with no luck (the voltmeter reads at/slightly above 12V)... However, my turn signals and hazard lights are working now (the hazard lights weren't working when I bought this thing) :rolleyes:

I'm going to try starting the truck up again in a few hours (with a different battery) but I get the feeling it won't turn over... I'm starting to think the starter might have gone (and maybe the alternator as well, if it's not working if I can/when I get this thing started)...
 
no start

I know that often it is hard to sat anything conclusively w/o actually doing testing but consider this.

bad diodes can put ac into your DC system (Hmm spark from ground wire), can make a squealing noise often mistaken for the belt, and can heat up and pop, and can blow fuses

sound familiar??


if the diodes are bad you may just keep charging and discharging the battery and blowing fuses and never get it started.

here are a few checks that may help you or you could just remove it and have it tested

http://assets.fluke.com/appnotes/automotive/beatbook.pdf


there's an explanation (somewhat of the diodes here and a couple checks)

I think your best bet is to take out the alternator and have it tested- a place that specializes in auto electrics is probably best and they may be able to fix it for you at less than the cost of a rebuild

Best of luck with it and please let us know how it turns out, someone else will be searching on the same prob!
 
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