Travis's house battery install

[lx200inAR]

The Victron would work - in fact it as an explicit mode called "power supply". For your ecoflow you'd need to ensure you throttle down the output as you only need 8 amps.

The EF throttles the input, so no need to worry about Victron output.

I went with EcoFlow as well. The cost and AC charging speed (~650w) being my primary reasons.

that being said, I found a screaming good deal on a 100ah battery, so intend to replicate a lot of what is going on in this thread.

 

[tbisaacs]

After a week or so if usage Im making some changes to cleanup some mistakes.

First, had a comedy of errors this week that lead me to believe that I had killed the battery.

After powering up the fridge and leaving if over night I came out and it was dead. The BMS has hit the low voltage shutoff. This was surprising given how many amp hours I have. The root cause is that the monitor just isn’t calibrated. There are instructions on how to do this and I of course ignored them.

Second and bigger issue is the I couldn’t wake the battery back up even after a lot of driving - I thought maybe it needed to hit a specific voltage to get past the cutoff but nothing worked. I even tried jumping the battery.

I pulled things apart and immediately realized my mistake:

Remember in my first post I had talked about how I was unhappy about jamming 4AWG wire into my Victron which was designed for 10AWG? Well here is the consequence. It spit it out. Charge wasn’t getting back into the battery to wake it up.

My fix was to step down from 4 to 10AWG in the back using a second set of terminals like this:

Now everything is happy and hopefully this install is worry free from here on out.

 

[sdnative]

^ that's what I did as well, except I used one of those BlueSea double post bases. I think the Victron can take up to 6AWG.

Regarding the monitor: I have noticed (on my installation at least) that the current draw from the BMS is so low that the shunt cannot really measure it. So if your truck sits for longer periods of time, the battery SoC / useable energy may be lower than the monitor indicates. So unless you are using the battery and charging/discharging often, the monitor isn't that useful to keep track of SoC/usable energy. Let me know if you have a different experience.

 

[tbisaacs]

^ that's what I did as well, except I used one of those BlueSea double post bases. I think the Victron can take up to 6AWG.

View attachment 3086712

Regarding the monitor: I have noticed (on my installation at least) that the current draw from the BMS is so low that the shunt cannot really measure it. So if your truck sits for longer periods of time, the battery SoC / useable energy may be lower than the monitor indicates. So unless you are using the battery and charging/discharging often, the monitor isn't that useful to keep track of SoC/usable energy. Let me know if you have a different experience.

Would love to see more if your setup

 

[sdnative]

Would love to see more if your setup

Link in my sig

 

[Fisher23]

All of the above ... and I keep a wire for a jumper incase the dc/dc charge blows out. That way I can by-pass it. I was on one trip and the dc/dc charger failed. Luckily I had some 10AWG to by pass it. (now I keep a piece of this AWG wire in my emergency repair kit) Instead of that blue sea switch I use a breaker. But I have the same sort of setup with the ground and hot bus bars.

 

[tbisaacs]

All of the above ... and I keep a wire for a jumper incase the dc/dc charge blows out. That way I can by-pass it. I was on one trip and the dc/dc charger failed. Luckily I had some 10AWG to by pass it. (now I keep a piece of this AWG wire in my emergency repair kit) Instead of that blue sea switch I use a breaker. But I have the same sort of setup with the ground and hot bus bars.

bypass as in charge right from the alternator?

 

[Fisher23]

yes... just emergency jump from the input of the dc/dc to the output. Basically by pass the dc/dc charge. So just a short wire. Happened when we still had 7 or 8 days to go on our trip.

 

[joltman]

@tbisaacs You should take a look at this Blue Sea page (and more specifically, the chart on that page). The Victron Orion 12|12-30 manual states that you should fuse for 12V @ 60A (section 4.6). At a a 5 meter run (16.4 ft), up to a 10 meter run (32.8 ft), you should use 16mm2 cable (6AWG). The run from the battery is not 32 feet, so a 6AWG with 60A fuse should work. The Victron unit can only handle up to a 6AWG cable on it's terminals. From the reading I've done, it sounds like the safest thing to do would be to purchase a ferrel and ferrel crimper. This will allow you to have pristine ends with no copper frays and tighten the crimped end into the Orion securely. As to charging the battery at rest, I was considering a Victron 12V 15A shore charger and putting in a Noco outdoor rated covered male AC plug on the rear fender. Something that can be moved over once I get a rear bumper.

At least, this is all my plan once I figure out where to mount an Orion, fuse block, small bus bars and 2 radios to the back of my drawers.

 

[tbisaacs]

@tbisaacs You should take a look at this Blue Sea page (and more specifically, the chart on that page). The Victron Orion 12|12-30 manual states that you should fuse for 12V @ 60A (section 4.6). At a a 5 meter run (16.4 ft), up to a 10 meter run (32.8 ft), you should use 16mm2 cable (6AWG). The run from the battery is not 32 feet, so a 6AWG with 60A fuse should work. The Victron unit can only handle up to a 6AWG cable on it's terminals. From the reading I've done, it sounds like the safest thing to do would be to purchase a ferrel and ferrel crimper. This will allow you to have pristine ends with no copper frays and tighten the crimped end into the Orion securely. As to charging the battery at rest, I was considering a Victron 12V 15A shore charger and putting in a Noco outdoor rated covered male AC plug on the rear fender. Something that can be moved over once I get a rear bumper.

At least, this is all my plan once I figure out where to mount an Orion, fuse block, small bus bars and 2 radios to the back of my drawers.

From my alternator I have a 60amp MIDI blue sea fuse and have another between the output of the Victron and the battery.

Are you saying I should size for 60amp and not 30? The run is less than a foot at 10AWG.

 

[joltman]

I was talking about the run from the battery to the Victron, which is what I thought you were having an issue with. Regardless, I think that a crimped ferrel is the way to go here.

According to the Victron Orion 12|12-30 manual, section 4.6, even to fuse to the house battery you will need a 60A rated fuse. However, to go to the house battery on a run of a .5 meter (1.5 ft) you would want a 6mm2 (10AWG) cable.

 

[Aifer]

looks awesome! Thanks for the description.

I have a question:
My needs are the following:
I have an EcoFlow (EF) unit at the back connected to my 12V DC fridge and already have 12V DC wires (always connected) to the back of the car - my needs are the following:

1) Charge the EF (Max Draw 8A) only while the engine is running (disconnect from charging the EF when engine off) - Fridge will draw constantly from the EF (engine running or not)
2) Have the option (to be used rarely in case the EF is depleted) to run my fridge regardless of the engine status (a.k.a on the start battery) - just like now.

What I liked about

Victron Orion-Tr Smart DC-DC Charger Isolated​

is that I can both set the thresholds for connecting disconnecting and (if i understand correctly) override the thresholds and let if be connect the start battery anyways.

My question: is the Victron overkill to my needs? Should I use a different device? I understand from the spec that the Victron can not be installed in the engine bay.

any thoughts?

Aifer.

I ended up by ordering this disconnect module from Amazon:

Amazon product ASIN B07WDLFFFB
Install it today - set the thresholds and it seems to be working perfectly.

1) When engine is running, EF is charged by the car.
2) EF is constantly feeding the Snowmaster fridge.
3) In case the EF is depleted, I can use the override switch and make it always on (charging from the car battery even if the engine is off).

25$ - issue solved.

 

[tbisaacs]

I ended up by ordering this disconnect module from Amazon:

Amazon product ASIN B07WDLFFFB
Install it today - set the thresholds and it seems to be working perfectly.

1) When engine is running, EF is charged by the car.
2) EF is constantly feeding the Snowmaster fridge.
3) In case the EF is depleted, I can use the override switch and make it always on (charging from the car battery even if the engine is off).

25$ - issue solved.

What purpose would this solve in my case? The battery already has a low voltage cutoff in the BMS

 

[Aifer]

What purpose would this solve in my case? The battery already has a low voltage cutoff in the BMS

I had wires infra to the trunk always on (connected via a fuze to the car battery) and my fridge was connected to these wires with a cutoff setting of 10.8v.

The EF doesn't have a cutoff protection with charging and would deplete my car battery. Therefore I needed a relay that charges the EF while the engine is running and disconnects when not.
This device solved the need.

 

[lx200inAR]

What purpose would this solve in my case? The battery already has a low voltage cutoff in the BMS

I had wires infra to the trunk always on (connected via a fuze to the car battery) and my fridge was connected to these wires with a cutoff setting of 10.8v.

The EF doesn't have a cutoff protection with charging and would deplete my car battery. Therefore I needed a relay that charges the EF while the engine is running and disconnects when not.
This device solved the need.

@Aifer , I guess no one actually answered your question above. But obviously you figured it out. The Victron would have worked, but was overkill since the EF already has a DC to DC charge controller built in. As you figured out, you only needed a LVD to keep your EF from draining the start battery. I assume you set the cutoff pretty high, so that the LVD would only close the relay when there was "alternator levels" of voltage available.

I've thought about the EF use case, and while it would be overkill a 800w inverter would be an interesting add for the truck (possibly go up to something like 1k-1.2k) that is directly run off the start battery. Then in a pinch you could charge the EF extremely fast rather than the semi-trickle charge of the 8amp DC to DC. You'd also have something that was capable of running a heavier duty tool or whatever in a pinch that the EF couldn't run. I'm not sure which one you have, my River Pro can only provide about 600w on the inverter, which is fine for most things, but probably not starting an electric saw or anything. If you have a Delta, then it would just be for the charging. This obviously complicates the install quite a bit, because you need something like the 4ga wire run to the back, verses the utilizing the big bonus of having a battery in the rear, is not needing to run a big cable between front and back. Or you'd have to have a setup where you pull the inverter out of a drawer when you need it and connect with short cable directly to the battery (not great if you want to drive while charging).

Sorry for the detour on this thread, back to the original scheduled programming.

 

[Aifer]

@Aifer , I guess no one actually answered your question above. But obviously you figured it out. The Victron would have worked, but was overkill since the EF already has a DC to DC charge controller built in. As you figured out, you only needed a LVD to keep your EF from draining the start battery. I assume you set the cutoff pretty high, so that the LVD would only close the relay when there was "alternator levels" of voltage available.

I've thought about the EF use case, and while it would be overkill a 800w inverter would be an interesting add for the truck (possibly go up to something like 1k-1.2k) that is directly run off the start battery. Then in a pinch you could charge the EF extremely fast rather than the semi-trickle charge of the 8amp DC to DC. You'd also have something that was capable of running a heavier duty tool or whatever in a pinch that the EF couldn't run. I'm not sure which one you have, my River Pro can only provide about 600w on the inverter, which is fine for most things, but probably not starting an electric saw or anything. If you have a Delta, then it would just be for the charging. This obviously complicates the install quite a bit, because you need something like the 4ga wire run to the back, verses the utilizing the big bonus of having a battery in the rear, is not needing to run a big cable between front and back. Or you'd have to have a setup where you pull the inverter out of a drawer when you need it and connect with short cable directly to the battery (not great if you want to drive while charging).

Sorry for the detour on this thread, back to the original scheduled programming.

@lx200inAR, correct.
although, since I do not have an original AC socket at the rear, installing a high capacity inverter would demand some infrastructure and would result (as you mentioned) faster charging time for the EF.
My current setting should support my typical usage of 3-5 hrs driving to campsite, overnight, 3-5 hour driving back.

 

[Dunbar]

Thinking further on the OP and options I'm leaning toward rolling my own. Looked at the Bluetti and Ecoflow etc but there is more litihum power and cycles for a bit of fab work. Keeping 3rd row seats in the truck limits placement but i can fit a pretty big battery behind the fridge strapped down. I guess I'll have to have the other components in hand to see about mounting.

 

[tbisaacs]

Camped this weekend and was amazed at how good this setup works.

I arrived at camp early Sat morning and it was in the 90s. Battery was of course full. Hung out for most of the day and battery only got down to 96%.

Went for a drive to hit a nearby hike and by the time we were back at dinner the battery was back to 100%.

When I left camp this morning the battery was at 92%. I’m feeling good that this will give me an easy few days if fridge and device charging without needing to manage it.

The only annoying thing is that my monitor had a firmware update and I couldn’t connect to it via Bluetooth because the update isn’t bypassable.

 

[Dunbar]

I hope this is not too much of a tangent from the OP's OP. I have already contributed to it going sideways and this post does some of that but is also relevant to the OP. As a stopgap measure and as a supplement to a system similar to @tbisaacs I purchased a Bluetti EB 70S. I would have like to have waited for an upgrade bringing features on their low end new EB3A but the need is immediate so I jumped. The Lithium Ion Phosphate number of discharge cycles pretty much made the decision on which portable to buy rather than price etc. Even after a permanent solution in my 3 row 200 is installed I will use the Bluetti extensively. So it is working now powering a fridge and getting charged by shore power in the garage at near 200 watts or while driving via the built in 100 W inverter. I do have a Elecaenta portable 120W solar panel for the boonies. But to charge via DC the included cigar lighter cable is pathetic. The EB70S is limited to 8A input and 200W but it is pointed out that if I jump the voltage from 12v to 24v I can charge at near 200A from DC. Now i see Youtube video solutions using cheap Chicom 12v to 24v converters I worry about those not shutting off drain of the starting battery or worse causing problems with the charging system. So a Vicron Orion DC - DC charger earns its extra price by protections, functionality and expandability. The Bluetti EB70S automatically reduces input to 8Amp so I could use a larger amp unit even though they are more expensive. I would do this to be able to charge a larger battery bank. I am new at this 12v stuff other than running large fused wires to the back for the fridge in my FJ62. The Excursion already had a sufficient 12v outlet in the 3rd row to tap. The Power Systems forum really needs a FAQ section to keep us from having to bounce all over the internet to learn enough to know, in my case, which Victron Orion DC to DC charger to get. I think going 12v to 24 is worth it to charge the Bluetti at double the wattage. Then I can use the Bluetti to run other 12 v loads. If I add a permanent LIPO4 house battery, it would have to be 24 volt and I could step back down to 12 volt for loads by spending another hundred or two on a different component. As I understand there are advantages to 24 volt but then I could be chasing my tail when an easier solution is known to others. Thus this long rambling post. I guess if I had a permanent install house battery I could charge the Bluetti from it rather than worrying about stepping up to 24 v for fast charge. My head is spinning, someone hand me a beer.

 

[lx200inAR]

I hope this is not too much of a tangent from the OP's OP. I have already contributed to it going sideways and this post does some of that but is also relevant to the OP. As a stopgap measure and as a supplement to a system similar to @tbisaacs I purchased a Bluetti EB 70S. I would have like to have waited for an upgrade bringing features on their low end new EB3A but the need is immediate so I jumped. The Lithium Ion Phosphate number of discharge cycles pretty much made the decision on which portable to buy rather than price etc. Even after a permanent solution in my 3 row 200 is installed I will use the Bluetti extensively. So it is working now powering a fridge and getting charged by shore power in the garage at near 200 watts or while driving via the built in 100 W inverter. I do have a Elecaenta portable 120W solar panel for the boonies. But to charge via DC the included cigar lighter cable is pathetic. The EB70S is limited to 8A input and 200W but it is pointed out that if I jump the voltage from 12v to 24v I can charge at near 200A from DC. Now i see Youtube video solutions using cheap Chicom 12v to 24v converters I worry about those not shutting off drain of the starting battery or worse causing problems with the charging system. So a Vicron Orion DC - DC charger earns its extra price by protections, functionality and expandability. The Bluetti EB70S automatically reduces input to 8Amp so I could use a larger amp unit even though they are more expensive. I would do this to be able to charge a larger battery bank. I am new at this 12v stuff other than running large fused wires to the back for the fridge in my FJ62. The Excursion already had a sufficient 12v outlet in the 3rd row to tap. The Power Systems forum really needs a FAQ section to keep us from having to bounce all over the internet to learn enough to know, in my case, which Victron Orion DC to DC charger to get. I think going 12v to 24 is worth it to charge the Bluetti at double the wattage. Then I can use the Bluetti to run other 12 v loads. If I add a permanent LIPO4 house battery, it would have to be 24 volt and I could step back down to 12 volt for loads by spending another hundred or two on a different component. As I understand there are advantages to 24 volt but then I could be chasing my tail when an easier solution is known to others. Thus this long rambling post. I guess if I had a permanent install house battery I could charge the Bluetti from it rather than worrying about stepping up to 24 v for fast charge. My head is spinning, someone hand me a beer.

I suspect the only advantage of 24v is the fact that it takes half the amps for similar watts, so you can use higher gauge cable to carry loads (only really relavemt for longer runs of cable, if you put the Victron 12v to 24v near the bluetti, you lose the advantage completely). I’m sure you’d have to do a study on efficiency of a 12v to 24v boost device vs a 12v inverter, especially if wanting max efficiency w/out the alternator, but seems like it would be a lot simpler to add a 200w inverter to your starting power system to charge the Bluetti through it’s AC port over converting 12v to 24v with the DC to DC.