Transmission Leak; How Much Trouble Am I In?…..

[arkmm]

Similar issue here on my end. I thought I was leaking power steering fluid until I changed the oil and saw this on the transmission:
View attachment 2985146
View attachment 2985147

Wiping it off, it looks darker than coolant but its also pretty dirty:
View attachment 2985148


I checked my coolant and the reservoir is nearly bone dry. I need to give it a fill. There is still enough in the radiator though so no heat issues so far. I looked at what WRP2 posted earlier and saw this, which tells me I may in fact be leaking coolant out of that spot on the manifold, but not as much as he was:
View attachment 2985150

Any thoughts here? Leak on the tranny looks pretty dark, but I'm also dangerously low on coolant...I will get some of the toyota super long life coolant for it, but does that leak look dark enough for me to need to take it to the dealer or a shop?

Get a flashlight and look under the intake manifold into the valley underneath it. If its stained red or still wet even with coolant then I'd say you have coolant leaking into the valley and down the back to the bell housing. Think about how much grime that red coolant is going through to get to the bottom of that bell housing. it will make it look really dirty. Thats what happened to me. I never suspected coolant causing that leak and I chased a transmission leak for weeks before I found the info here and found out it was coolant.

 

[urist]

The oil at bottom of your bell housing weep hole. Can be ATF (red) or engine oil (brown). My first impression looking at picture, was engine oil. Key will be which is loosing/low fluid.

Your low coolant, may or may not be a leak. Very often coolant systems are under filled, after a service. The throttle body leaks are generally so minor, they have very little effect of coolant level. Top coolant with your year correct i.e. 98-03 Toy LL Red. 04- Toy SLL Pink. Do this by driving with both heater set to max. Then park level or better yet, with front end higher than rear of vehicle for 8 hours. Then early in the morning, before sun warms the air, radiator or engine. Check that the coolant level, is to the top of radiator (to the neck under cap), by removing radiator cap. Then top reservoir. If you add any to the radiator. Repeat topping the next day. Keep in mind when look at coolant reservoir, it's level will vary based on coolant temperature.

Look over the engine, from top to bottom all four corners for sign of coolant leaks. This includes head gasket. Especially if coolant level drops again.

Update. I put Toyota Red coolant in there up to proper level. No problem there.

I wish I had more time to get under there and find the leak, but I'm finishing up my Master's degree while working full time and don't have the time. My local lexus dealer recc'd a local toyota/lexus master tech I take it to (used to work at the dealership). He looked at it today and let me know that the crankshaft main oil seal and the front pump seal need to be replaced and that is where the leak was coming from. Said otherwise the truck is in fantastic condition and drives great (it does).

He said he'd need to take the transmission out and the quote I was given says about 8 hours of labor. The parts are priced fine but the labor is pretty high (120/hr). Does his diagnosis sound reasonable to you? And should I bother negotiating price or is that reasonable? I may have him do some preventative maintenance while he has the transmission out on the table. Thanks for any help

 

[2001LC]

8 hr's Sounds reasonable for rear main.

But to make to call "rear main" leak is one thing, oil pump is another. We've basically two types of seals: rubber and FIPG (form in place gasket). The FIPG Toyota uses is incredible, and I've never seen leak.

If he's willing to fix rear main and oil pump seal for 8 hr's shop time, that is a great deal. As timing belt and oil pans also need removing. Which If me I just pull the engine leaving transmission in.

But before I have any work done.
1) I'd add AT-205 to engine oil. See if any improvement over time.
2) I'd research history of oil changes. Looking to see if High Mileage (HM) oil used for 2 oil changes (especially if 2 in a row). If so, you've 2 choices. Go back to feeding your engine's addiction to HM oil, if AT-205 doesn't work to slow. Or have entire engine resealed. As very likely your oil cooler and filter housing seals, valve guild, and more seals are also going to fail.


High Mileage oil is about the worst thing anyone can use. It's damages rubber seals by swelling them.

 

[urist]

8 hr's Sounds reasonable for rear main.

But to make to call "rear main" leak is one thing, oil pump is another. We've basically two types of seals: rubber and FIPG (form in place gasket). The FIPG Toyota uses is incredible, and I've never seen leak.

If he's willing to fix rear main and oil pump seal for 8 hr's shop time, that is a great deal. As timing belt and oil pans also need removing. Which If me I just pull the engine leaving transmission in.

But before I have any work done.
1) I'd add AT-205 to engine oil. See if any improvement over time.
2) I'd research history of oil changes. Looking to see if High Mileage (HM) oil used for 2 oil changes (especially if 2 in a row). If so, you've 2 choices. Go back to feeding your engine's addiction to HM oil, if AT-205 doesn't work to slow. Or have entire engine resealed. As very likely your oil cooler and filter housing seals, valve guild, and more seals are also going to fail.


High Mileage oil is about the worst thing anyone can use. It's damages rubber seals by swelling them.

Makes good sense. As for using High Mileage oil, I was ignorant to that and have used it for last 2 oil changes (only changes I've done since I owned it). That's on me. Before that, I think the truck was lexus serviced its whole life. So its likely that I'm the first to put high mileage oil in it. NOTE that I just did the second oil change -- less than 50 miles on this second round of High Mileage oil. So about 1.01 oil lifecycles have been on high mileage Hopefully I havent done any lasting harm with one oil cycle of high mileage.

Do you recommend I drain the High Mileage oil out of it that is currently in there, add non-high-mileage oil and AT-205 and see what happens? And which oil would you recc given that I just had high mileage in it? 5W-30 is whats in the spec and what I use, but I mean what mix/other specs.

I may have the mech go ahead and order the seal for me so I have them on hand for later.

Thanks for your help

 

[2001LC]

Makes good sense. As for using High Mileage oil, I was ignorant to that and have used it for last 2 oil changes (only changes I've done since I owned it). That's on me. Before that, I think the truck was lexus serviced its whole life. So its likely that I'm the first to put high mileage oil in it. NOTE that I just did the second oil change -- less than 50 miles on this second round of High Mileage oil. So about 1.01 oil lifecycles have been on high mileage Hopefully I havent done any lasting harm with one oil cycle of high mileage.

Do you recommend I drain the High Mileage oil out of it that is currently in there, add non-high-mileage oil and AT-205 and see what happens? And which oil would you recc given that I just had high mileage in it? 5W-30 is whats in the spec and what I use, but I mean what mix/other specs.

I may have the mech go ahead and order the seal for me so I have them on hand for later.

Thanks for your help

I would drain HM oil today. I would then add 10 oz. of AT-205 with 7 qts Mobil 1 5W-30 oil & OEM oil filter. I'd drive for 1 full tank of gas, than clean all oily spots (remove under shielding and use a de-greaser). Drive through anther full tank of gas. Look to see if oil leaks have improved. Than make the decision on rear main & oil pump.

 

[urist]

I would drain HM oil today. I would then add 10 oz. of AT-205 with 7 qts Mobil 1 5W-30 oil & OEM oil filter. I'd drive for 1 full tank of gas, than clean all oily spots (remove under shielding and use a de-greaser). Drive through anther full tank of gas. Look to see if oil leaks have improved. Than make the decision on rear main & oil pump.

Following up to this (better late than never). I drained the full synth and replaced with standard bulk oil when you reccommended that. I mentioned it to the Toyota/Lexus Pro Mechanic that I know and he said that in 20 years of working at the dealerships, they only put bulk oil in the cars. I noticed improvements pretty quickly. After about 1500 miles on it now since I swapped the oil, it only drops about a drop a week. I'll live with that.

Interesting aside is that I did have a coolant leak. Turns out it was as clamp close to the radiator that had gone bad. So maybe I was leaking some coolant, but I imagine I've more/less fixed both issues now. Thanks for the help @2001LC and others.

 

[CruisinNoob]

When you guys talk hi mileage oil do you just mean engine oil or the tranny oil as well? Because I put some hi mileage synthetic ATF in mine thinking it would be nice, but I've never had leak problems and don't want to start having them now. I did a few hi mileage oil changes as well but she's back on traditional last few years since guys at most recent shop I take her to didn't bother to ask and just filled her with standard but seems fine no leaks. I also have a LX 470 that is due for a change that had hi mileage synthetic blend last change and I'm afraid to switch it back.

 

[2001LC]

When you guys talk hi mileage oil do you just mean engine oil or the tranny oil as well? Because I put some hi mileage synthetic ATF in mine thinking it would be nice, but I've never had leak problems and don't want to start having them now. I did a few hi mileage oil changes as well but she's back on traditional last few years since guys at most recent shop I take her to didn't bother to ask and just filled her with standard but seems fine no leaks. I also have a LX 470 that is due for a change that had hi mileage synthetic blend last change and I'm afraid to switch it back.

I've never notice any AT fluid state "HM". But out of abundance of cation, I wouldn't use if I did!

I stopped using blended oils, years ago. I feel they're a waste of money. As the regular oil blended in, breaks down.

When engine run on regular oil, unless that oil changed every 3K miles or sooner, and not run very hard (hot). With very good working PCV system always. The engine gunk's up. This includes seals getting layer of gunk on them. The gunk drys out the seals. Then switch to full synthetic, which cleans engine of gunk in just a few changes, fairly well. Sometime we than get seals leaks/weeps. In these I add AT-205 to engine oil. It puts back the plasticize time and gunk leached out. Then seal usually stop leaking.

 

[CruisinNoob]

I've never notice any AT fluid state "HM". But out of abundance of cation, I wouldn't use if I did!

I stopped using blended oils, years ago. I feel they're a waste of money. As the regular oil blended in, breaks down.

When engine run on regular oil, unless that oil changed every 3K miles or sooner, and not run very hard (hot). With very good working PCV system always. The engine gunk's up. This includes seals getting layer of gunk on them. The gunk drys out the seals. Then switch to full synthetic, which cleans engine of gunk in just a few changes, fairly well. Sometime we than get seals leaks/weeps. In these I add AT-205 to engine oil. It puts back the plasticize time and gunk leached out. Then seal usually stop leaking.

It's the valvoline max life atf:

MaxLife Multi-Vehicle Automatic Transmission Fluid - Valvoline™ Global - Valvoline™ Global

Try Valvoline MaxLife Full Synthetic Multi-Vehicle Automatic Transmission Fluid, designed to maximize performance and suitable for most light duty vehicles and CVT applications.

www.valvoline.com

The Toyota ws seems tailored to their newer systems and some threads said synth was good since it didn't degrade as easily and managed heat better so I picked this stuff.

I need to do the 470's oil soon but I'm not sure of the seal situation. Would going back to regular after hi mileage cause leaking? It was sitting and not run hard for a lot of the time since last change and I'm not sure what was in it previously. The cruiser was always a dd but didn't seem to have problems going back that I've noticed. It's had synth in before too but not recently.

 

[2001LC]

It's the valvoline max life atf:

MaxLife Multi-Vehicle Automatic Transmission Fluid - Valvoline™ Global - Valvoline™ Global

Try Valvoline MaxLife Full Synthetic Multi-Vehicle Automatic Transmission Fluid, designed to maximize performance and suitable for most light duty vehicles and CVT applications.

www.valvoline.com

The Toyota ws seems tailored to their newer systems and some threads said synth was good since it didn't degrade as easily and managed heat better so I picked this stuff.

I need to do the 470's oil soon but I'm not sure of the seal situation. Would going back to regular after hi mileage cause leaking? It was sitting and not run hard for a lot of the time since last change and I'm not sure what was in it previously. The cruiser was always a dd but didn't seem to have problems going back that I've noticed. It's had synth in before too but not recently.

It may leak when you switch back to none HM. Mobil 1 states: If HM oil used for two oil changes, it must then be used for life of engine.

But, I've a client came to me with a a very leaky 4.7L VVT. Even the VVT cam actuators leaking. We flush engine with BG EPR engine flush. Then replace oil & filter (OEM) with regular Mobil 1 5W-30, and add ~10 oz of AT-205. We are seeing improvement. It hard to say how much improvement at this time. As even with 2 very through engine degreasings and power washing. It takes time for all the oil that got outside of seals, to run out to where can be washed.

To keep using HM oil, it should not leak. Or not in near term. But they way the HM oil swells seals, they will likely fail in the long run.

 

[CruisinNoob]

It may leak when you switch back to none HM. Mobil 1 states: If HM oil used for two oil changes, it must then be used for life of engine.

But, I've a client came to me with a a very leaky 4.7L VVT. Even the VVT cam actuators leaking. We flush engine with BG EPR engine flush. Then replace oil & filter (OEM) with regular Mobil 1 5W-30, and add ~10 oz of AT-205. We are seeing improvement. It hard to say how much improvement at this time. As even with 2 very through engine degreasings and power washing. It takes time for all the oil that got outside of seals, to run out to where can be washed.

To kepp using HM oil, it should not leak. Or not in near term. But they way the HM oil swells seals, they will likely fail in the long run.

So basically the LX may be screwed and I lucked out with my 100 not leaking after switching back? It has standard in last few years and no leaks, never loses oil level. I do take it in every 3000 though and it doesn't go offroad really, just on roads.

Can I use non-HM synthetic, or would that also potentially cause problems in the 100?

Do you think the HM transmission fluid could cause similar swelling problems in seals? It was just a drain and fill and not a full flush, so I could go back to regular next drain.

Would the fact that the HM oil in the LX is a blend make it any less likely to fail if I go back to non-HM, or is that a non-factor?

 

[2001LC]

So basically the LX may be screwed and I lucked out with my 100 not leaking after switching back? It has standard in last few years and no leaks, never loses oil level. I do take it in every 3000 though and it doesn't go offroad really, just on roads.

Can I use non-HM synthetic, or would that also potentially cause problems in the 100?

Do you think the HM transmission fluid could cause similar swelling problems in seals? It was just a drain and fill and not a full flush, so I could go back to regular next drain.

Would the fact that the HM oil in the LX is a blend make it any less likely to fail if I go back to non-HM, or is that a non-factor?

In the USA: All LX470 are 100 series. Land Cruiser (LC) 89-07 is also a 100 series.

We're go in circle here. But I try to make very clear:

I would not use and if in any engine or transmission. I would flush out any and all HM oil.
HM oil is for leak vehicles, which 100 series is not leaky vehicle. HM is a petroleum based seal modifier. HM oils swell rubber seals and will damage them in time!

If after flushing all HM oil out, it leaks. Than you've 3 choices:
1 Do nothing.
2 Go back to HM. (bad choice IMHO)
3 Add AT-205 to non HM oils. (AT-205 is a plasticize, which all plastic and rubber have added in (their formula) during manufacturing. Which time leaches out. It is only added once every 7 to 10 years.)

 

[CruisinNoob]

In the USA: All LX470 are 100 series. Land Cruiser (LC) 89-07 is also a 100 series.

We're go in circle here. But I try to make very clear:

I would not use and if in any engine or transmission. I would flush out any and all HM oil.
HM oil is for leak vehicles, which 100 series is not leaky vehicle. HM is a petroleum based seal modifier. HM oils swell rubber seals and will damage them in time!

If after flushing all HM oil out, it leaks. Than you've 3 choices:
1 Do nothing.
2 Go back to HM. (bad choice IMHO)
3 Add AT-205 to non HM oils. (AT-205 is a plasticize, which all plastic and rubber have added in (their formula) during manufacturing. Which time leaches out. It is only added once every 7 to 10 years.)

Sorry, when I say 470 I mean my 2002 LX 470. 100, I am referring to my 1999 Land Cruiser. Both are basically the same vehicle, one is just a few years newer and has irreparable body rot. So two different vehicles.

Neither leak at the moment.

LC had HM in it for a while a few years ago, then went back to non-HM for past few years and no leaks.

LX has HM in now and came to me with it in. I am not sure if it had HM in because it leaks without it, or if it was just done because many lube shops recommend it. I will give it a flush and find out.