Your best bet to have a long-lasting transmission is to change the fluid often, and using fluid that is both cheaper and full-synthetic accomplishes that goal
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Transmission ATF WS Fluid Availability (1 Viewer)
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If your main goal is transmission longevity, WS is not the world's best fluid, it was a compromise Toyota made to meet new enviromental regulations and to fit a variety of thier vehicles. The transmission load profile on a Camry is very different from that of a Land Cruiser, but they use the same WS fluid. WS is known for having issues withstanding heat (there are a number of reports online on this), so if you plan on doing any high load work with your truck, (towing, offroading, loading it down for family trips) the most heat and abuse tolerant fluid available is Amsoil's signature series, which is a severe use oil. It's almost $20 a quart, but you get what you pay for. If you search the forums, a lot of other folks run it as well.
OR you just do what Rednexus suggested above and change your fluid more often. ATF degrades with use (much faster under heavy use), so if you change regularly, then it matters less what fluid you use.
Mud OCD dictates use Toyota WS only and change weekly. Work down from that standard (in both the fluid and the change interval) to something you are comfortable with.
FWIW I just bought 12 qts of ATF WS at my local dealer for $15/qt. Not the cheapest price but I know its genuine and it's 5 minutes from my office.
Someone could get the Amsoil fully Synthetic WS rated fluid for the same price.
IMO the only reason to use the high-end fluid is extended change intervals. Extended change intervals might be fine in a vacuum or a pavement-bound rig, but do nothing to address accumulation of debris and contamination (clutch material, small metal bits, water, etc.) in the fluid itself. The transmission has magnets in the pan and a small screen, and this will catch some but not all of it. It has no filter in the conventional sense. These debris/contamination will make the fluid dark and may accelerate transmission wear. So changing it more frequently has a lot of benefits for transmission life and negates the need for expensive long-interval fluids. The total cost using frequent changes with a good-quality universal fluid like MaxLife will be the same or cheaper than less frequent changes with something like Amsoil, but you'll have a cleaner transmission that should last longer.
That's my thought process with all fluids in my GX. None of them are fancy, but all are as good or better than OEM.
That's my thought process with all fluids in my GX. None of them are fancy, but all are as good or better than OEM.
32cls6speedmt
SILVER Star
This informative from professor Kelly from Weber state university.
bloc
SILVER Star
As is typical for Toyota, let alone the 200, there are very, very few transmission failures using standard WS.
The cost being so high changes the math of what fluid to use a lot, but to suggest ATF-WS can’t adequately protect our transmissions is.. alarmist.
The cost being so high changes the math of what fluid to use a lot, but to suggest ATF-WS can’t adequately protect our transmissions is.. alarmist.
Trans failures are becoming more common in the A760F in the GX platform. Reman A760Fs are often backordered from Toyota. Many suspect this is due to most not having an external cooler and being sold as having "lifetime" fluid. Under those conditions (lots of heat and never changed), WS is not doing the trans any favors.
I like how folks qualify the 400+F flash point as indication that the fluid “degrades” at high temperature. If you hit 400F fluid temps in your trans, you have much bigger issues than fluid degradation.
Toyota has some of the highest spec fluid requirements of any OEM. TGMO is some of the best on the market. WS fluid is likely held to a spec in a similar manner. Toyota stuff works - period. From their Gucci $80//tube coolant sealant to WS - all of it is manufactured and blended to the highest standards. Go ahead and run “Valvoline” If the marketing and price tickles you. With a combined 800k on WS transmission, I will continue to use WS fluid.
Toyota has some of the highest spec fluid requirements of any OEM. TGMO is some of the best on the market. WS fluid is likely held to a spec in a similar manner. Toyota stuff works - period. From their Gucci $80//tube coolant sealant to WS - all of it is manufactured and blended to the highest standards. Go ahead and run “Valvoline” If the marketing and price tickles you. With a combined 800k on WS transmission, I will continue to use WS fluid.
I still find it odd that on a forum where most here seek to improve on an already solid platform, are totally cool with changing out a bunch of Toyota designed and specd components because although the stock components are great and are of very high quality, still can be improved upon further. This also applies to fluids. Especially ones that were designed and specd years and years ago. Yes, the original will suffice. No one is saying otherwise, but there are superior choices.
Battleship
GOLD Star
I think it’s more like people improve on the truck’s ability to do certain things for their needs and preferences, they don’t actually improve the truck overall. With all the unknown factors around fluids, I don’t quite trust aftermarket manufacturers to make an ATF that is as well suited to our gearboxes as the genuine.
Why? Do you use Toyota motor oil too?
Companies who have a business that is based purely on automotive fluids and lubricants either do it better or they do not survive as a business. They dedicate their whole R&D on this specific technology. A car manufacturer have bigger fish to fry and a whole lot more to account for.
This is why there are better braking components then factory. They simply cannot compete with the likes of Brembo. Toyota uses Fox shocks in their TRD PRO lineup. The top specd sportbikes usually are outfitted with Ohlins suspension. The list goes on and on.
Companies who have a business that is based purely on automotive fluids and lubricants either do it better or they do not survive as a business. They dedicate their whole R&D on this specific technology. A car manufacturer have bigger fish to fry and a whole lot more to account for.
This is why there are better braking components then factory. They simply cannot compete with the likes of Brembo. Toyota uses Fox shocks in their TRD PRO lineup. The top specd sportbikes usually are outfitted with Ohlins suspension. The list goes on and on.
bloc
SILVER Star
I agree with most of what you are saying, but this is why auto manufacturers publish specifications that must be met to maintain warranties. That strongly implies the specs work.
Those have substantial performance differences.. though you could argue Fox is more marketing than toyota's ability to produce a shock.
If special fluids have a performance difference, they won't matter within a transmission that is rock-solid reliable on the stock stuff. When it was cheap, that was a significant benefit.
People just keep touting the benefits of the stuff in a way that implies a need for those benefits, all in a place that doesn't need any more transmission reliability.
And I'd argue effective marketing can absolutely keep a business running with a product that isn't as great as they claim.
I agree with you on specs. They are published and are required to be met. They also can be exceeded.
I never implied that Toyota or any other manufacturer for that matter could not make a great brake, shock, etc. It just isn't economically feasible to do so from a business stand point, so they don't.
Most all, if not all of us here more than likely can see that application in our own work industry. There are certain things, trades, sub work, products, services that is contracted out. Not because it can't be done, just that to spool up to take care of that task is not a smart business decision. Specialized companies do just that; specialized work...and they are, if successful, better at it than most.
Sure there are marketing ploys, but the fact that pure synthetic is superior to non synthetic is undeniable. Bottom line...it's superior. Whether you need it or not is a separate subject altogether and those willing to pay to put in a superior product do so. Would the oem stuff do the job for what they are using it for? Maybe? Maybe not?
Guys do mods on their cruisers that may or may not be needed. The oem way might still have been sufficient in certain situations, but the fact that it is actually superior and gives them more leeway in terms of performance, whatever that may be, is worth the price and peace of mind.
I never implied that Toyota or any other manufacturer for that matter could not make a great brake, shock, etc. It just isn't economically feasible to do so from a business stand point, so they don't.
Most all, if not all of us here more than likely can see that application in our own work industry. There are certain things, trades, sub work, products, services that is contracted out. Not because it can't be done, just that to spool up to take care of that task is not a smart business decision. Specialized companies do just that; specialized work...and they are, if successful, better at it than most.
Sure there are marketing ploys, but the fact that pure synthetic is superior to non synthetic is undeniable. Bottom line...it's superior. Whether you need it or not is a separate subject altogether and those willing to pay to put in a superior product do so. Would the oem stuff do the job for what they are using it for? Maybe? Maybe not?
Guys do mods on their cruisers that may or may not be needed. The oem way might still have been sufficient in certain situations, but the fact that it is actually superior and gives them more leeway in terms of performance, whatever that may be, is worth the price and peace of mind.
bloc
SILVER Star
Yes.
Exactly why Toyota uses ExxonMobil to make their oil and transmission fluid with a very specific Toyota additive package.
Would another synthetic, superior product that is also similarly priced or cheaper also do the job? Also...yes.
- Thread starter
- #39
The best answer for ordering Toyota WS fluid was amazon. I ordered it from Toyota of north Miami. I paid $180 for 12 quarts.
@bloc I am curious what your thoughts are on the Aisin fluid.
@bloc I am curious what your thoughts are on the Aisin fluid.
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32cls6speedmt
SILVER Star
Professor Kelly from Weber state university has stated that aisin atf is fine to use. Also note how aisin atf is made specifically for different makes of vehicles as opposed to the one size fits all.
