trail gear sas and rear lift blocks
- Thread starter yotayes88
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I too drive my truck everywhere, run dirt roads, live in the mountains and need the suspension I put under it. But I also wheel on rocks. The only difference between the two is that If I weren't on the rocks, I would run a front and rear swaybar.
The reason why I recommended what I did is because I have done this before. I've had to replace things like my Trail Gear Shackles, bushings and bumpstops. Also, the TG kit doesn't include everything you need (like rear brake lines or the parts to make a longer front driveshaft)
The Trail Gear 3" lift will give you a ~7" lift. The Chevy's will give you ~3-4" lift. On my '85 4runner, I ran 2 add a leafs on my 63" Chevy's to get 5" out of them.
I watched a good friend of mine do this. He bent the main leaf. A custom main & 2nd leaf from deaver solved his problem.
Any long flexy spring will need a traction bar even not in rocks. Im sure it bent from either axle wrap due to no traction bar or going neg arch ( to small bump stops or no bump stops at all. Traction bars are cheap and easy to make or buy for $150 ready to weld on. Show Kyle a bent leaf with properly installed bumps and a traction bar. Most people who run leaves have one. Lots get rid of leaves for link suspension for better flex and no axle wrap.
Op you will need a traction bar for any spring thats going to flex alot. Most flex because they are long which allows axle wrap. Thats why your stock dont flex well.
Also your 3" will sit high but as it breaks in it will drop. Alot will pull a leave ( up front in New pack) to drop it until it breaks in. Once it breaks in and lowers add the leaf back. We did a truck recently and it gave about 4" or lift. I say if the front sits high, pull a leave, wheel it a while which will break them in from flexing and driving then if it sags put leave back in. If rear is close but slightly lower add a longer shackle. Short of a " lift kit for a road warrior" anything you do will require you fine tuning how the truck sits to get it level.
Anymore questions just ask. Its part of building a truck. But if you do what you want from the get go you'll be happy. Dont cut corners. You'll probably mess with the TG springs and 63s shackle length to get it perfect.
Do the 3" and 63s. If it sits too high up front at first pull a leaf. Those leaves will drop a couple inches as broken in so if you can get it close to the rear with pulling a front leave then it settles adding the leave you pulled will level it back up.
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Op you will need a traction bar for any spring thats going to flex alot. Most flex because they are long which allows axle wrap. Thats why your stock dont flex well.
Also your 3" will sit high but as it breaks in it will drop. Alot will pull a leave ( up front in New pack) to drop it until it breaks in. Once it breaks in and lowers add the leaf back. We did a truck recently and it gave about 4" or lift. I say if the front sits high, pull a leave, wheel it a while which will break them in from flexing and driving then if it sags put leave back in. If rear is close but slightly lower add a longer shackle. Short of a " lift kit for a road warrior" anything you do will require you fine tuning how the truck sits to get it level.
Anymore questions just ask. Its part of building a truck. But if you do what you want from the get go you'll be happy. Dont cut corners. You'll probably mess with the TG springs and 63s shackle length to get it perfect.
Do the 3" and 63s. If it sits too high up front at first pull a leaf. Those leaves will drop a couple inches as broken in so if you can get it close to the rear with pulling a front leave then it settles adding the leave you pulled will level it back up.
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- Thread starter
- #44
I have thought about sway bars and trac bars. My buddies 84 doesn't have either of those, and he wheels hard, I don't think I would ever drive my pickup like he drives his, but he hasn't had any issues with his. I've heard of people taking a leaf out of the front pack to help them break in, but I've heard that it isn't a good idea. I've also heard of people just running without shocks for a little while too. Oh and a random question, can I just eye ball the shock hoops when I install those, or do they have to be perfect?
.Lots wheel without traction bars I was mainly addressing the bent spring issue. If you wheel you get axle wrap with anything at some point. My old Tacoma would axle wrap with stock everything in certain situations. I also knew to not keep going when it happened. That will break stuff period. There were also alot of times if I had a traction bar it would of helped me get over or through what I was in since it would of kept the tires planted instead of bouncing. You can def build the truck and wheel it without and may determine you don't need it or if you do its an easy add on that will keep your tires planted. Its extremely noticeable in loose dirt or sand. It breaks things cause it loads and unloads the tires and instead of a continuing force it hops and when it comes down and suddenly finds traction boom there goes something.
Also with shock hoops I would just get a piece of tape or string ora left over piece of pvc ( anything that is straight you can cut to shock length) and throw it in and use it to place your shocks. Your leaves will move the front axle back toward the cab as it compresses. I would compress the suspension and use the piece of whatever to place the hoops accordingly. If you look around it seems most leave trucks at ride height the shock is leaning toward the cab slightly. Not much but I ASSume they are like this to not create bind. I would think to far forward could cause bind. Maybe shoot for straight up at ride height or slightly back so as to keep shock from being in a weird possibly binding position if that could even happen. Just seems if it was accidentally placed to far forward as you flexed the axle would move back which would make it \ as it compresses since the bottom mount of the shock would follow the axle as it compresses toward the cab.
Put your shock hoops on last. Cycle suspension and see how much the bottom mount moves during droop and it stuffed and mount top in the middle of the two?
I'm no expert at this and a TG kit has instructions and plenty of stuff on the web so dont take my word as be all end all.
Thats just my opinion.
One thing I do know. MAKE SURE TO BRACE STEERING BOX AND SHOCK HOOPS GOOD. WITHOUT GOOD BRACING THEY CAN AND WILL RIP OFF THE FRAME!
Edit. Removing a spring to drop it before break in for lowering wont hurt anything. Just put it back in when you start seeing the front drop. The more they flex the quicker it breaks in. Just dont set the rear to match a brand new front spring pack or you'll be disappointed when it drops and you cant do much about it. I would level it with a middle spring out then when it sags that leave will help bring it back up
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Also with shock hoops I would just get a piece of tape or string ora left over piece of pvc ( anything that is straight you can cut to shock length) and throw it in and use it to place your shocks. Your leaves will move the front axle back toward the cab as it compresses. I would compress the suspension and use the piece of whatever to place the hoops accordingly. If you look around it seems most leave trucks at ride height the shock is leaning toward the cab slightly. Not much but I ASSume they are like this to not create bind. I would think to far forward could cause bind. Maybe shoot for straight up at ride height or slightly back so as to keep shock from being in a weird possibly binding position if that could even happen. Just seems if it was accidentally placed to far forward as you flexed the axle would move back which would make it \ as it compresses since the bottom mount of the shock would follow the axle as it compresses toward the cab.
Put your shock hoops on last. Cycle suspension and see how much the bottom mount moves during droop and it stuffed and mount top in the middle of the two?
I'm no expert at this and a TG kit has instructions and plenty of stuff on the web so dont take my word as be all end all.
Thats just my opinion.
One thing I do know. MAKE SURE TO BRACE STEERING BOX AND SHOCK HOOPS GOOD. WITHOUT GOOD BRACING THEY CAN AND WILL RIP OFF THE FRAME!
Edit. Removing a spring to drop it before break in for lowering wont hurt anything. Just put it back in when you start seeing the front drop. The more they flex the quicker it breaks in. Just dont set the rear to match a brand new front spring pack or you'll be disappointed when it drops and you cant do much about it. I would level it with a middle spring out then when it sags that leave will help bring it back up
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- Thread starter
- #46
Sorry for all the newb-ish questions guys. I'm just trying to learn as much as possible before I actually start the swap. I know u guys explaining things to me isn't as nearly as good as learning by doing, but it helps and I appreciate it. I know tg has instructions but, I've noticed they are quite out dated. Another thing I was wondering, the all pro sas kit has 4,5, and 6 inch springs. Is the 4 inch kit about the same height as tg 3 inch? Since the hangers are different?
Don't know but one thing I cannot stress enough is go read Toyota Bible 2.0. Everything is in there. I know you said you looked about the f150s but you really didn't read and pay attention. Like asking what years for springs. They were on the first 150 spring thread in there. Also follow other links in the threads. I found a spreadsheet showing lengths, widths, numbers of springs in different packs. Length overall and length from front to center and center to rear for a dozen different makes and models. I have been on pirate for 7 years and have never registered because between the Toyota Bible 1.0 and especially 2.0( newer more through update) and adding pirate 4x4 after what your searching for in Google (I.e. Chevy 63 swap pirate 4x4 ) will show all kind of info. You can also add whatever website after your keywords to search that particular site
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Also stick with 3" they sit high and even after breaking in, they move your axle forward to help with scrubbing. With minimal work if any 36-37" tires will fit with correct backspacing. May require lil work to keep from scrubbing at all but you want your truck low for off-road. A 3" lift with some small body mods to fit big tires is alot better than 5" lift to for same tires and probably end up with still doing mods for when its flexed and turned. Tall trucks are unstable. I wouldn't bother with the AP kit.
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- Thread starter
- #49
I definatly agree that lower is better. Which is why I was asking about the all pro 4 inch springs for an sas. I know the number is bigger, but I think their hanger has 1/2 inch less lift than the trail gear hanger. So I was wondering if the springs were also less stiff than trail gears, which would equal a lower overall lift with my sas. Just waiting for my tax returns to get the parts. Its awesome because my fiance is just as excited about it as I am.
The standard marlin/trail gear/all pro springs are ~220in lbs.
The height of the spring hanger differs. The reason why many use a 2" hanger is to minimize brake dive. (If the front spring eye is higher than the rear, it will cause brake dive)
The height of the spring hanger differs. The reason why many use a 2" hanger is to minimize brake dive. (If the front spring eye is higher than the rear, it will cause brake dive)
TG springs are the same width as the stock toyota springs. 2.375" if I remember correctly. RUF is the way to go if your on a budget.
Just remember, 79-83 uses a 18mm front spring bolt, 85-88 uses a 14mm. (You have to swap the bushing if you use a 85-88 main leaf with a TG hanger)
If your interested in RUF start a new thread on it and I'll post up all my lessons learned from running 3 different sets (today I run Nationals/Deavers)
Just remember, 79-83 uses a 18mm front spring bolt, 85-88 uses a 14mm. (You have to swap the bushing if you use a 85-88 main leaf with a TG hanger)
If your interested in RUF start a new thread on it and I'll post up all my lessons learned from running 3 different sets (today I run Nationals/Deavers)
- Thread starter
- #53
I'm still planning to just use the enite TG kit on mine. But soon I will be getting my fiance a yota. Figured ide go ahead and ask. If its an ifs one she getts, it will surely be converted to SA. But she is a shorty, so a low lift will be needed lol.
I don't think there is any way to get an ifs converted leaf spring truck lower than mine, and it's still a 5" lift
If you get it down to 3" the frame has to be notched for the tie rod/drag link and your only going to have ~1" of up travel before the u-bolt nuts hit the frame. IMO not worth it.
If you want the truck lower than 5", keep it ifs or swap in a complete fj80 front end (coil springs and all)
If you want the truck lower than 5", keep it ifs or swap in a complete fj80 front end (coil springs and all)
Here's a link to my build thread, it shows shackle angle and spring hanger placement. I had to go flush with the most forward part of the hanger and factory front cross-member to get a decent shackle angle. For whatever reason 3 inch TG springs aren't 47 inches eye to eye like the 4 and 5's.
http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/florida/268555-beginning-4runner-sas.html
http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/florida/268555-beginning-4runner-sas.html
Maybe this will help, plus I like posting pics of my 4Runner89 Trail-Gear 3 inch front and 4 inch rear, 33 inch BFG's, about 3 inches cut out of the front and rear fenders. Total lift upfront a little over 6 inches. http://s1280.photobucket.com/user/GuyHuey/media/Halloween2013012_zps184e26d2.jpg.html Flexed http://s1280.photobucket.com/user/GuyHuey/media/KFrB7Oh_zpsdc5926cf.jpg.html
Can you do me a favor? I've always wondered how much lift I have compared to a TG 3" lift.
Can you measure from the bottom of your frame to the bottom of the front spring pack?
