Traction Control *and* a Locking Rear Diff?

[SteveLCetc]

Okay, if the FJ Cruiser is using a modified Tacoma/Forerunner chasis and drivetrain, I have a concern...

Both of the above mentioned trucks not longer have a lever to engage the transfer case!!!! They both now have a switch.

I for one will not be happy if this 'cruiser' comes with a switch to engage the transfer case.......someone better let Uncle Toyoda know right now.

There better be a lever....

Yeah ... yeah...

Locked Front and Rear with a Twin Stick!
We need a petition!

 

[Darwood]

Ive been around four wheeling. I've never had to go fast over rocks. I dont consider that four wheeling anyway. Sure IFS rules if your Walker Evans. I dont want to be Walker Evans. I like 100+ to 1 crawling. IFS sucks for that.

Funny enough Walker Evan's new truck for UROC is solid axle all the way. I got to check it out at SEMA. It's built by Cambell Enterprises.

 

[Landpimp]

I was sworn to secretcy, but its time to let the cat out of the bag. the new FJ is not what you think it is, its really a HJZ74 hidden under a plastic fake body just so they can get them into the US, when you buy one, take it home and remove the FJ body, you will find a brand new 2007 74 series underneath it.

Sorry I ruined the suprise

Im glad they made it. Ill never buy one. Maybe now they'll bring in a REAL four wheel drive like an HZJ-74?


TB

 

[HZJ60 Guy]

I was sworn to secretcy, but its time to let the cat out of the bag. the new FJ is not what you think it is, its really a HJZ74 hidden under a plastic fake body just so they can get them into the US, when you buy one, take it home and remove the FJ body, you will find a brand new 2007 74 series underneath it.

Sorry I ruined the suprise

People that own WAY TO MANY cruisers are also WISE GUYS!

Why dont you go jump in the bay Mr.!

There's a Gig out there waiting for you to harber!



TB %$#@^ %$#@^ %$#@^

 

[Mace]

Big deep breath folks

 

[HZJ60 Guy]

Big deep breath folks

Im just teasing the Pimpster. Were both fellow (jack asses) Warshentonians.
Im going to get a Lojack system from him soon so I cant beat him up too much!



TB

 

[Dirk Diggler]

Okay, if the FJ Cruiser is using a modified Tacoma/Forerunner chasis and drivetrain, I have a concern...

Both of the above mentioned trucks not longer have a lever to engage the transfer case!!!! They both now have a switch.

I for one will not be happy if this 'cruiser' comes with a switch to engage the transfer case.......someone better let Uncle Toyoda know right now.

There better be a lever....

Right one!

Solid front axle would be the best, but I question what type of IFS is going to be used. I hope it is similar to the 100 series (torsion bar) and not a coilover. I hope it has a steering damper and an idler arm and not rack and pinion. I hope it is a vehicle that can be modified. Maybe I am hoping for too much.

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

I was thinking about this last night. Probably a better combination than Ft/Rr lockers. With the traction control up front you would probably have better control and manuvering and less Birf Breakage.


I'm actually starting to warm up to this thing I think.

Right on. Locked rear and TRAC front allows for full turning and without risk.

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

Traction control is a glossy second rate substitute for lockers though. By definition it kicks in only after losing momentum.

Absolutely not so. I see you have an 80, but obviously you've never driven a 100 off-road.

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

With lockers, one wheel can't spin faster than the other, so you conserve momentum.

With traction control, when one wheel starts to spin the other must slow down, therefore you have lost momentum. I don't doubt that in some cases (maybe by chance) traction control works better - but I'd really like to see an unbiased head to head comparison.

Want to see? Come wheel with me. Locked 80. Locked 100/Traction controlled 100. You see, you'll believe.

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

Ahh but apparently the traction control turns off when you lock the center diff

Wrong. And that's (not you, it) insane. That's when you need it the most, in CDL demanig application. It's always there for you in any mode. Obviously if you lock the rear then the doesn't have TRAC but the front does.

 

[Landpimp]

LOL.........no worries at all, I was giving chit and expect it back

John

Im just teasing the Pimpster. Were both fellow (jack asses) Warshentonians.
Im going to get a Lojack system from him soon so I cant beat him up too much!



TB

 

[SteveLCetc]

Want to see? Come wheel with me. Locked 80. Locked 100/Traction controlled 100. You see, you'll believe.

I don't think I follow you. Are you saying the Traction Control is better than the lockers? Do you just lock the ARB's when you want to get stuck, or did you have an extra couple of thousand laying around?

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

Wait a second what are we talking about here? The CDL turns off the traction control? On what vehicle? The FJ Cruiser isn't even made yet.

Traction Control to me makes sense if a tire is cleanly off the ground, so it can just spin and spin. In that case putting on that brake, makes some power go to the other tire still on the ground, so putting a brake on a tire that's not touching the ground is fine (that tire is doing nothing for momentum anyway, it's in the air). Now in a more normal scenerio, where a tire is just barely spinning faster than the other putting on the brake on that tire seems it could be counter-productive. If you could only slow that tire down to match the other tires then maybe it'd work, but not sure if they drag the brakes or pulse them.

However, I think the problem with all traction control systems is what if there is very little traction, so you NEED to spin all 4 tires, some faster, some slower, etc, but spin them all. I've heard the 100-series does pretty good with this and lets them spin. I know the system on a '01 Hummer did NOT do that, and I watched them take forever to get through stuff that any normal vehicle would walk through, because their traction control would not let a tire spin, but to get over a rock, all 4 tires needed to spin, there wasn't that much traction. So that is a problem with all systems, just some have different ways to lock out the system in that case and let the tires just wildly spin..

Backwards Mark (on the H2)

H2 wheelspin is excessive (like almost all systems) and not too effective. I pulled one out with the 100. It's very tightly controlled on the 100. The only error to be made on the 100 is using too much gas. If you use too much gas then the system lets the wheels spin (ala spitting mud off so you don't get stuck). My buddy has some videos of the 100 on his site.

Go here and let me walk you through them:

http://www.expeditionswest.com/vehicles/adventurepartners/john100.html

"FR42 Trail, good TRAC action" shows driver error. I began to climb then hit those holes and gave it more gas. I was embarassed. I should have not increased the gas. I stopped then lightly touched the pedal and away I went with TRAC.

"Nice Wheel Lift action" show just how effective TRAC is in the 100. There's NO momentum loss. Those holes are HUGE and those are 35's. Other unlocked vehicles spin and spin in those holes while trying to get traction. The 100 reacts extremely fast.

"Wheel lift, Chivo AZ" is an example of locked rear and open front. Though I've done this obstacle unlocked, I was locked here. Using TRAC up front eliminates the worry about breakage (or sliding) while turning up those rocks. A combo of locker and TRAC is invaluable IMO.

Please don't get on me about "Three Feathers Climb, AZ". I had 22-lbs in. At 18lbs this climb is done without a slip.

So believe in ActiveTrac. It works, sometimes BETTER than lockers. When a rear locker has pulled me to an edge, I unlock, go light on the gas and let TRAC, TRAC away.

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

IFS should be against the law!

Lockers PREVENT either wheel from spinning slower or faster than the other. Hence the term locked.

To damn retro looking. To fat. Probably to heavy.

Oh well, better than NO FJ I suppose.



TB

Dude...it's 2005. I'm glad you like your truck. I luv my 80 too, but whatever ya do, don't challenge an IFS 2004 Double Cab Tacoma TRD (equally modified) to an off-road challenge. ALL our Cruisers would LOSE!

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

I was sworn to secretcy, but its time to let the cat out of the bag. the new FJ is not what you think it is, its really a HJZ74 hidden under a plastic fake body just so they can get them into the US, when you buy one, take it home and remove the FJ body, you will find a brand new 2007 74 series underneath it.

Sorry I ruined the suprise

;p Way to go PIMP!

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

I don't think I follow you. Are you saying the Traction Control is better than the lockers? Do you just lock the ARB's when you want to get stuck, or did you have an extra couple of thousand laying around?

Depends on the situation as to which is best. I've went places with TRAC where the lockers wouldn't even move me, they just slid me.

I've climbed things with a locker(s) where TRAC didn't cut it. VERY steep and lose grades with holes. Emphsize, VERY steep.

Idealy the combo of lockedrear and front TRAC is best because you can turn and without binding. Heck, you really need to turn, grab a 2000+ 100 with TRAC, lock the ARB rear, UNLOCK the center (turns FAR easier) and let the front wheels TRAC through the obstacle. You won't BELIEVE how you can turn and how you can climb and WITHOUT the fear of breakage!

I've also be spared by TRAC over lockers on scary climbs. The locker would pull me to the edge. So I'd unlock and use TRAC patiently and safely.

 

[SteveLCetc]

Depends on the situation as to which is best. I've went places with TRAC where the lockers wouldn't even move me, they just slid me.

I've climbed things with a locker(s) where TRAC didn't cut it. VERY steep and lose grades with holes. Emphsize, VERY steep.

Idealy the combo of lockedrear and front TRAC is best because you can turn and without binding. Heck, you really need to turn, grab a 2000+ 100 with TRAC, lock the ARB rear, UNLOCK the center (turns FAR easier) and let the front wheels TRAC through the obstacle. You won't BELIEVE how you can turn and how you can climb and WITHOUT the fear of breakage!

I've also be spared by TRAC over lockers on scary climbs. The locker would pull me to the edge. So I'd unlock and use TRAC patiently and safely.

Well, you convinced me both is best. However, if you could only have one or the other???

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

Well, you convinced me both is best. However, if you could only have one or the other???

Easy choice:

100 = TRAC
(It carries you through almost every off road situation and some lockers won't. I'd NEVER give up TRAC in the 100, though I could give up the lockers if I had too.)

80 = Lockers
(They'll allow you to do those 5% of obstacles TRAC might not do. Considering the 80 is more of a trail rig (much less expensive, etc. etc.) the lockers are the choice.

 

[reffug]

Can't we just wait until somebody buys one and wheel's it and then formulate opinions. I think Shottz and Pimp both have already proven that a rear locker and IFS are an excellent wheeling comibination.