I don't think I understand that combination - or is it one or the other, and why not on the front as well? How about the 80/105 front locker???
It's not IFS is it? :-(
It's not IFS is it? :-(
Traction Control *and* a Locking Rear Diff? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter SteveLCetc
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Both. ATRAC works on all 4 wheels, plus the rear locking diff. ATRAC works by sensing slippage so w/ rear locked, it won't interfere. So you will be running ATRAC front/locked rr.
Don't know if they will use ATRAC, ATRAC II, or II+ but I assume the latest gen.
yup, IFS.
Don't know if they will use ATRAC, ATRAC II, or II+ but I assume the latest gen.
yup, IFS.
I was thinking about this last night. Probably a better combination than Ft/Rr lockers. With the traction control up front you would probably have better control and manuvering and less Birf Breakage.
I'm actually starting to warm up to this thing I think.
I'm actually starting to warm up to this thing I think.
- Thread starter
- #4
landtank said:
Traction control is a glossy second rate substitute for lockers though. By definition it kicks in only after losing momentum.
Actually I don't think that's true. I think it kicks in when one tire is going faster than the others (slipping).SteveLCetc said:
I agree that the concept of traction control seems foreign to me, how you can help a vehicle get UP a rock by putting on it's own brakes. But I have been assured by others that in the right vehicle traction control does actually work. If it works, great, lockers obviously work, but leave alot to be desired regarding turning and not forcing a tire to slip (like a sharp turn in snow, with lockers it will slip and spin because it has to), etc.
1. no birfs...
2. lockers only work when one wheel spins faster than the other.
Lockers are just a mechanical way of controling wheelspin.
BJonRoids actually utilized a Toyota traction control on his FJ45 buggy... The thing actually did better on some climbs than trucks with lockers front and rear..
2. lockers only work when one wheel spins faster than the other.
Lockers are just a mechanical way of controling wheelspin.
BJonRoids actually utilized a Toyota traction control on his FJ45 buggy... The thing actually did better on some climbs than trucks with lockers front and rear..
- Thread starter
- #7
Mace said:
With lockers, one wheel can't spin faster than the other, so you conserve momentum.
With traction control, when one wheel starts to spin the other must slow down, therefore you have lost momentum. I don't doubt that in some cases (maybe by chance) traction control works better - but I'd really like to see an unbiased head to head comparison.
"With traction control when one wheel starts to spin the other wheel must slow down"....
I think you kinda understand what you are saying you just did not say it right.
Now think how the traction control reduces wheel spin. Typically by decreasing throttle (somtimes bad) or it can actually use the brakes to reduce wheelspin on one side (basically giving that side more "traction" and allowing more power to be applied to the other side.)
Until it actually exists saying that it's traction control and one locker sucks is kinda silly
I think you kinda understand what you are saying you just did not say it right.
Now think how the traction control reduces wheel spin. Typically by decreasing throttle (somtimes bad) or it can actually use the brakes to reduce wheelspin on one side (basically giving that side more "traction" and allowing more power to be applied to the other side.)
Until it actually exists saying that it's traction control and one locker sucks is kinda silly
That is incorrect. The way ATRAC works, it slows down the spinning wheel- not the others.
In low trac situations like sand dune climbs, it will kill momentum b/c all the wheels are starting to spin. BUT you just lock the center diff and it stops this, no problem - and TRAC still functions w/ CDL.
ATRAC II+ is pretty awesome, imo.
In low trac situations like sand dune climbs, it will kill momentum b/c all the wheels are starting to spin. BUT you just lock the center diff and it stops this, no problem - and TRAC still functions w/ CDL.
ATRAC II+ is pretty awesome, imo.
- Thread starter
- #10
Mace said:"With traction control when one wheel starts to spin the other wheel must slow down"....
I think you kinda understand what you are saying you just did not say it right.
Now think how the traction control reduces wheel spin. Typically by decreasing throttle (somtimes bad) or it can actually use the brakes to reduce wheelspin on one side (basically giving that side more "traction" and allowing more power to be applied to the other side.)
Until it actually exists saying that it's traction control and one locker sucks is kinda silly
At any moment in time in 4wd with traction to all 4 corners, they all go the same speed (exept cornering factor). Now lose some traction and get some wheelspin.- with a locked center, one front and one rear have to start slipping. The engine rotation speed can not physically gain the rpm's needed instantaneously to keep the other tires going at the same speed until the traction control, itself keyed by the increase in wheelspin opposing the slowing wheel, kicks in. With a locker there is no delay, therefore there is no loss in momentum.
You're right about waiting to see it though.
Mace said:
I'd be willing to bet the farm that there is some sort of multi ball joint up there. Be whatever it's called.
Wait a second what are we talking about here? The CDL turns off the traction control? On what vehicle? The FJ Cruiser isn't even made yet. 
Traction Control to me makes sense if a tire is cleanly off the ground, so it can just spin and spin. In that case putting on that brake, makes some power go to the other tire still on the ground, so putting a brake on a tire that's not touching the ground is fine (that tire is doing nothing for momentum anyway, it's in the air). Now in a more normal scenerio, where a tire is just barely spinning faster than the other putting on the brake on that tire seems it could be counter-productive. If you could only slow that tire down to match the other tires then maybe it'd work, but not sure if they drag the brakes or pulse them.
However, I think the problem with all traction control systems is what if there is very little traction, so you NEED to spin all 4 tires, some faster, some slower, etc, but spin them all. I've heard the 100-series does pretty good with this and lets them spin. I know the system on a '01 Hummer did NOT do that, and I watched them take forever to get through stuff that any normal vehicle would walk through, because their traction control would not let a tire spin, but to get over a rock, all 4 tires needed to spin, there wasn't that much traction. So that is a problem with all systems, just some have different ways to lock out the system in that case and let the tires just wildly spin..
Traction Control to me makes sense if a tire is cleanly off the ground, so it can just spin and spin. In that case putting on that brake, makes some power go to the other tire still on the ground, so putting a brake on a tire that's not touching the ground is fine (that tire is doing nothing for momentum anyway, it's in the air). Now in a more normal scenerio, where a tire is just barely spinning faster than the other putting on the brake on that tire seems it could be counter-productive. If you could only slow that tire down to match the other tires then maybe it'd work, but not sure if they drag the brakes or pulse them.
However, I think the problem with all traction control systems is what if there is very little traction, so you NEED to spin all 4 tires, some faster, some slower, etc, but spin them all. I've heard the 100-series does pretty good with this and lets them spin. I know the system on a '01 Hummer did NOT do that, and I watched them take forever to get through stuff that any normal vehicle would walk through, because their traction control would not let a tire spin, but to get over a rock, all 4 tires needed to spin, there wasn't that much traction. So that is a problem with all systems, just some have different ways to lock out the system in that case and let the tires just wildly spin..
Engaging 4 Wheel Drive
Okay, if the FJ Cruiser is using a modified Tacoma/Forerunner chasis and drivetrain, I have a concern...
Both of the above mentioned trucks not longer have a lever to engage the transfer case!!!! They both now have a switch.
I for one will not be happy if this 'cruiser' comes with a switch to engage the transfer case.......someone better let Uncle Toyoda know right now.
There better be a lever....
Okay, if the FJ Cruiser is using a modified Tacoma/Forerunner chasis and drivetrain, I have a concern...
Both of the above mentioned trucks not longer have a lever to engage the transfer case!!!! They both now have a switch.
I for one will not be happy if this 'cruiser' comes with a switch to engage the transfer case.......someone better let Uncle Toyoda know right now.
There better be a lever....
HZJ60 Guy
Tank Buster
IFS should be against the law!
Lockers PREVENT either wheel from spinning slower or faster than the other. Hence the term locked.
To damn retro looking. To fat. Probably to heavy.
Oh well, better than NO FJ I suppose.
TB
Lockers PREVENT either wheel from spinning slower or faster than the other. Hence the term locked.
To damn retro looking. To fat. Probably to heavy.
Oh well, better than NO FJ I suppose.
TB
on my 100 series the TC does not turn off with the CDL, in low or high
and frankly, TC works WAY better then I thought it would.
and I was SHOCKED at how well my 100 wheeled, I mean SHOCKED!
if the FJ is anything like the 100 then it will prolly wheel better then most here think it will.
and frankly, TC works WAY better then I thought it would.
and I was SHOCKED at how well my 100 wheeled, I mean SHOCKED!
if the FJ is anything like the 100 then it will prolly wheel better then most here think it will.
mabrodis said:Wait a second what are we talking about here? The CDL turns off the traction control? On what vehicle? The FJ Cruiser isn't even made yet.
e system in that case and let the tires just wildly spin..
I'm not to enthusiastic about trac... if its anything like in the 4-Runner there will be no way to disable it. http://www.yotatech.com/showthread.php?t=45793&page=1
May be good in a few situations but is also really really bad in a few situations. Up where I live I would prefer not to have trac.
Other than that the FJ seems alright... part-time 4WD with rear locker should be pretty decent. I'm guessing its got a rear live axle right?
I look forward to seeing some lifted ones.
May be good in a few situations but is also really really bad in a few situations. Up where I live I would prefer not to have trac.
Other than that the FJ seems alright... part-time 4WD with rear locker should be pretty decent. I'm guessing its got a rear live axle right?
I look forward to seeing some lifted ones.
HZJ60 Guy
Tank Buster
Mace said:Why I said apparently
HZJ, you have never driven fast in the rocks have you..
IFS rules that
Moab, the Rubicon, Fordyce creek, Johnson Valley, South Dakota.
Ive been around four wheeling. I've never had to go fast over rocks. I dont consider that four wheeling anyway. Sure IFS rules if your Walker Evans. I dont want to be Walker Evans. I like 100+ to 1 crawling. IFS sucks for that.
Im glad they made it. Ill never buy one. Maybe now they'll bring in a REAL four wheel drive like an HZJ-74?
TB
