TR4050 to replace H41 adapter at bellhousing? (1 Viewer)

[m37charlie]

Does anyone know of an adapter plate that goes between Tremec 4050 and stock bellhousing?
Current H41 has the usual F/H coarse 10 spline dimensions in front.
Vehicle is 88 Bandeirante with very nice Mercedes OM314.
TC will be Orion.
4.56 gears, 33.9” tires.
Thanks

 

[charliemeyer007]

No clue, but it sounds exciting. With CAD these days you could draw up the part and have it machined or 3D printed so it could be cast

 

[cruisermatt]

Not for your engine - but if you had a F/2F/3F my project from 2016 would directly correlate.

You may find some of this information helpful regardless.

NV4500 Conversion - Full Write-up

Ahead lies over a year of my research, parts sourcing, and a lot of headache. This is how to put an NV4500 behind your 2F or 3F/3FE engines. This can also work behind a 2H/12HT with a custom adapter plate. I won't go into depth on different transfer case options right now, this is just how to...

forum.ih8mud.com

 

[EWheeler]

Does anyone know of an adapter plate that goes between Tremec 4050 and stock bellhousing?
Current H41 has the usual F/H coarse 10 spline dimensions in front.
Vehicle is 88 Bandeirante with very nice Mercedes OM314.
TC will be Orion.
4.56 gears, 33.9” tires.
Thanks

Does the H41 bellhousing to OM314 share the same pattern as H41/2 to the 2F?

The reason I ask, is that a specific model of gas engine NV4500 can be adapted to a F/2F using a 3spd bellhousing (far more details involved). From what I have read, the TR4050 should be a drop in for an NV4500. I'm not sure if they cover all variations of the NV4500 with the TR4050 offerings.

Some reading here from @cruisermatt

NV4500 Conversion - Full Write-up

Ahead lies over a year of my research, parts sourcing, and a lot of headache. This is how to put an NV4500 behind your 2F or 3F/3FE engines. This can also work behind a 2H/12HT with a custom adapter plate. I won't go into depth on different transfer case options right now, this is just how to...

forum.ih8mud.com

It seems the path of least resistance would be an H55f and a splitcase if you haven't already purchased the Orion.

 

[EWheeler]

Not for your engine - but if you had a F/2F/3F my project from 2016 would directly correlate.

You may find some of this information helpful regardless.

NV4500 Conversion - Full Write-up

Ahead lies over a year of my research, parts sourcing, and a lot of headache. This is how to put an NV4500 behind your 2F or 3F/3FE engines. This can also work behind a 2H/12HT with a custom adapter plate. I won't go into depth on different transfer case options right now, this is just how to...

forum.ih8mud.com

Jinx!!

 

[m37charlie]

I’ll look at your thread. As I mentioned, the bellhousing takes the stock 10 spline F engine type input shaft.

 

[EWheeler]

I’ll look at your thread. As I mentioned, the bellhousing takes the stock 10 spline F engine type input shaft.

Your bellhousing doesn't care how many splines your input shaft has, your clutch does.

Bellhousing comes into play with input shaft length and obviously bolt patterns....

 

[charliemeyer007]

General 1 — THE BANDY CO

www.thebandyco.com

 

[m37charlie]

Ok, read the NV4500 to 3 spd bh thread. My bh looks like a stock 4 (FOUR) spd from the rear. So that wouldn’t work.
I have no idea if the bh is a stock F or H bh as far as bolting to the engine block. And I don’t want an OD bad enough to find out.
This vehicle will be used mainly extremely locally (like towing 3/4 ton military trailer to pick up free wood for processing to firewood in the neighborhood). Possibly as far as ~100 miles each way trips but no further, no interstates in Alaska. So 50-55 mph is ok.
So unless someone has a relatively simple suggestion….
Anyone know the “stickout” of the longest 4050/4500 input shaft vs stickout of H41/42 input?
That would tell us if a custom plate is even possible.

 

[EWheeler]

And I don’t want an OD bad enough to find out.
This vehicle will be used mainly extremely locally (like towing 3/4 ton military trailer to pick up free wood for processing to firewood in the neighborhood). Possibly as far as ~100 miles each way trips but no further, no interstates in Alaska. So 50-55 mph is ok.

So unless someone has a relatively simple suggestion….

What is wrong with the H41 and why are you going through all this trouble if the above statements are true? Simple suggestion is to leave the H41 alone. A slightly more involved, but also simple suggestion is to swap in a more driver friendly H42 if something is wrong with the H41 mechanically. The only difference between the H41 and h42 is 1st gear. With the torque of the diesel and orion low gearing, I don't think you'd miss the low 1st gear of the H41.....

 

[m37charlie]

As you can see it looks like an H41/42 for F or H motor.
I’m fully aware splines only affect clutch friction disk choice.
In my lifetime I’ve swapped a NP540 behind a Perkins diesel in my 69 FJ40 (in 1973) and a Clark 280VO behind a Hercules in a Dodge M37 (in 1997).
But it serves to identify also pilot end dimensions and overall length.
Nothing’s wrong with the H41…and I certainly don’t want an H42.
But if there were a bolt-in option for a 4050 I’d go for it. It appears that there isn’t one.
But thanks anyway.

 

[peesalot]

Contact Georg at Valley Hybrids, he has used these engines in a few conversions and he knows Toyota transmissions inside & out.

 

[EWheeler]

View attachment 3668153
As you can see it looks like an H41/42 for F or H motor.
I’m fully aware splines only affect clutch friction disk choice.
In my lifetime I’ve swapped a NP540 behind a Perkins diesel in my 69 FJ40 (in 1973) and a Clark 280VO behind a Hercules in a Dodge M37 (in 1997).
But it serves to identify also pilot end dimensions and overall length.
Nothing’s wrong with the H41…and I certainly don’t want an H42.
But if there were a bolt-in option for a 4050 I’d go for it. It appears that there isn’t one.
But thanks anyway.

Look like you've been doing this longer than I've been an adult....

Anybody ever heard of a Perkins diesel swap into a LC?

I have heard of GM 6.2L, cummins 4bt and the occasional isuzu diesel swap but I do not recollect a perkins diesel swap. Has anybody ever heard of one of these? The reason I ask is that I may have a cheap 4 cyl turbo perkins pretty soon. Oh yeah the bellhousing is standard 350 chev style. So tell...

www.pirate4x4.com

I have access to a free turbo diesel T4.236 that came off a belt driven industrial blower fan that no longer meets our brilliant emissions rules for mobile equipment in CA. Looks like you removed it from the FJ40, was that because it was underwhelming? It looks like heavy bastard.

Curious why you'd consider spending the money on a TR4050 but not an H55 when the H55 is a more economical and much more straight forward swap? "On account of 'cause" is acceptable, just seems like the H55 is hitting the easy button if you like the 1st gear of the H41, and are interested in an OD.

 

[cruisermatt]

Anyone know the “stickout” of the longest 4050/4500 input shaft vs stickout of H41/42 input?

the tr4050 matches the LD/gas Nv4500. Which is longer then standard F/H H41/42/55 which is what you pictured. A few years ago I would know off the top of my head. but I don't remember exactly anymore. It's between 3/4"-1". The information is definitely out there. F/H H42/H55f is the same length/spline as standard SBC SM420/465, M22 etc

 

[charliemeyer007]

I think Advanced Adapters has the spec's for lots of tranny transfer bolt pattern and such.

 

[m37charlie]

Look like you've been doing this longer than I've been an adult....

Anybody ever heard of a Perkins diesel swap into a LC?

I have heard of GM 6.2L, cummins 4bt and the occasional isuzu diesel swap but I do not recollect a perkins diesel swap. Has anybody ever heard of one of these? The reason I ask is that I may have a cheap 4 cyl turbo perkins pretty soon. Oh yeah the bellhousing is standard 350 chev style. So tell...

www.pirate4x4.com

I have access to a free turbo diesel T4.236 that came off a belt driven industrial blower fan that no longer meets our brilliant emissions rules for mobile equipment in CA. Looks like you removed it from the FJ40, was that because it was underwhelming? It looks like heavy bastard.

Curious why you'd consider spending the money on a TR4050 but not an H55 when the H55 is a more economical and much more straight forward swap? "On account of 'cause" is acceptable, just seems like the H55 is hitting the easy button if you like the 1st gear of the H41, and are interested in an OD.

I actually have an H55 on a pallet in my yard, takeout from BJ60, along with 38mm TC.
But it would need rebuild along with shipping to Georg for the 4:1 conversion.
Since the 4:1 split case gears are 1.1:1, with the stock 3.70s the OJ50 would net only a 7% OD vs the H41/Orion in high top gear, not enough to be worth the effort.
I THOUGHT I had a set of 4.11s in the garage when I took the old BJ60 diffs (front ARB, rear Detroit) to be rebuilt
But I counted teeth wrong, they were 4.56.
So I’ve got fresh diffs with lockers @4.56.
Which made me start thinking that’s slow enough to work well with TR4050 5th gear. But apparently no joy. BTW the Orion complete with new output shafts, forks etc, is sitting on kitchen table. In pieces still
Re Perkins: nobody not on Medicare remembers gas lines in 73. But that’s when I contracted the diesel bug.
Got a 4.236 into my FJ40 (put about 100k on F despite being in college and med school) in 73. First a SM420 (easy) with AA adapter to 2.31 TC. 30” 10R16.5s.
Then found a Chevy pattern NP540 with 0.821 5th, had AA John Partridge make one off adapter.
Eventually transplanted to FJ45 pickup, used to tow launch and pull out 32’ gillnetter in Dillingham Alaska.
The 4.236 has great low end torque but big on vibration. It’s a 2800 rpm motor that likes 2300 or 2200 for cruise speed.
The OM314 is almost as good but far less vibration (probably much better engineered motor mounts, only 2 in front plus the one under the H41.
So for my project I think I’ll stick with H41, enjoy 90:1 low first, and just use the vehicle locally.