Toyota had it right in 1998.

[Cruiser_Nerd]

$30-$35k. I would rather be paying for a basic vehicle with a drivetrain built to last, then a lot of doodads, trim and elctronic gizmos that ar now mandatory and drive up the price of lesser 4WD's. But that's why I'm not the target market.

 

[TexomaFJ40]

Same basic tooling 22K-29K to compete with the Xterra. And keep it bare, you can light the knobs, but keep it basic.

 

[HZJ60 Guy]

$30-$35k. I would rather be paying for a basic vehicle with a drivetrain built to last, then a lot of doodads, trim and elctronic gizmos that ar now mandatory and drive up the price of lesser 4WD's. But that's why I'm not the target market.

I guess Im not the target markte either. So how do we non target market guys find what we want?


TB

 

[landtank]

I guess Im not the target markte either. So how do we non target market guys find what we want?


TB

relocate

 

[DBS311]

HZJ60 is right. Jeep has a market all to themselves with the Wrangler. Why is Toyota getting into the Liberty market?? Seems to me that if they want to bring back "the legend" of the Land Cruiser, something more along the lines of the 70 makes sense. If Jeep can build the Wrangler and sell it for less than 30k, I would think Toyota would be able to do the same. I believe all this hype Toyota is throwing at us about bringing back the "legend" is just to get attention, not to actually build something for the enthusiasts.

 

[FirstToy]

repost!
https://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=41110

I think this FJ Cruiser forum is 99% reposts, sadly I have contributed!

 

[Cruiser_Nerd]

repost!
sadly I have contributed!

NOT that I have any need to defend ...... If you feel a need to post REPOST! ...... check the start dates of threads first.

Maybe yell at DBS for posting to a three month old thread, but he's right.............Toyota's just pimpin the Cruiser image for sales.....

 

[firetruck41]

HZJ60 is right. Jeep has a market all to themselves with the Wrangler. Why is Toyota getting into the Liberty market?? Seems to me that if they want to bring back "the legend" of the Land Cruiser, something more along the lines of the 70 makes sense. If Jeep can build the Wrangler and sell it for less than 30k, I would think Toyota would be able to do the same. I believe all this hype Toyota is throwing at us about bringing back the "legend" is just to get attention, not to actually build something for the enthusiasts.

So your not happy with a rig that is out of the box more capable than any FJ series Landcruiser brought into the US? Compare to an FJ 40, 55, 60, 80: almost certainly a stronger frame and better approach/departure angle; more hp than any of those, alot more than a 40; rear diff lock (never a factory option on those); 4 wheel disk brakes; ABS; traction control; bigger tires, more comfortable, all at a reasonable price.
If you are one of those who say you can't do anything with IFS, go look at the pics from CM with shotts in his 100, he did pretty good in a much more cumbersome rig than the FJ Cruiser will be.!

 

[Ocelot]

So your not happy with a rig that is out of the box more capable than any FJ series Landcruiser brought into the US? Compare to an FJ 40, 55, 60, 80: almost certainly a stronger frame and better approach/departure angle; more hp than any of those, alot more than a 40; rear diff lock (never a factory option on those); 4 wheel disk brakes; ABS; traction control; bigger tires, more comfortable, all at a reasonable price.
If you are one of those who say you can't do anything with IFS, go look at the pics from CM with shotts in his 100, he did pretty good in a much more cumbersome rig than the FJ Cruiser will be.!

Its less capable than the majority of Land Cruisers that were avaliable for sale in North America. Both the 70 and 80 have front & rear diff locks and front & rear solid axles. The 80 and 100 both have more torque at lower RPM. Both the 80 and 100 have disc brakes and ABS.

Traction Control is a huge disadvantage and compromises off-road ability. IFS sucks and everyone knows it (I've owned & wheeled many IFS rigs from the sidekick all the way to the 4-Runner. And this FJ Cruiser is a 4-Runner anyways). Shotts has a locker in the front of his 100 which he used (not much, but did nonetheless). Everyone knows the IFS failure storys on the 100 anyways. There is a reason that toyota still offers Solid Axles on the 100 elsewhere around the world.

I think Toyota enthusiasts have a right to be pissed at Toyota for droping the ball so badly. This is like the H2 is to the H1. H2 is just a suburban with a different body shapped like a hummer. The FJ Cruiser is just a 4-Runner with a body shaped to resemble a Land Cruiser (or a beluga whale, not really sure what they were thinking). I know I'll be using the $30k to import a real land cruiser (HDJ-80) instead.

I know toyota does not care for my opinion and that wont influence what is designed, but that will not change my opinion. I still want to see FR/RR Lockers and FR/RR Solid Axles. If the FJ Cruiser had those I would have been happy.

 

[firetruck41]

Its less capable than the majority of Land Cruisers that were avaliable for sale in North America. Both the 70 and 80 have front & rear diff locks and front & rear solid axles. The 80 and 100 both have more torque at lower RPM. Both the 80 and 100 have disc brakes and ABS.

The 70 was not available in the US, the FJ 80 did not have fr/rr lockers or 4 wheel disc brakes, or ABS. The FZJ80 did, and the UZJ100 did have disc brakes/ABS/rr locker but they are not US FJ series cruisers. The reason I referred to US FJ series Land Cruisers is because the FJ Cruiser haters seem to think it could never live up to them.

FJ80: 155hp@4000rpm, 220ft-lb @3000
FZJ80: 212hp@4600rpm, 275ft-lb@3200rpm
UZJ100: 235hp@4800 and 320ft-lb @3400rpm
FJ Cruiser: 245hp@5200rpm, 282ft-lb@3800rpm

The FJ80 had ~100 less hp than the FJ Cruiser will have, the FZJ still has less than the FJ Cruiser. Keep in mind the UZJ/FJ/FZJ are ~700-1000+ lbs heavier than the FJ Cruiser and the FJ Cruiser has a 6 speed manual or 5 speed auto to take advangtage of where the power is. The UZJ/FJ/FZJ also is (or would be in todays dollars) at least twice as much as a FJ Cruiser.

Traction Control is a huge disadvantage and compromises off-road ability. IFS sucks and everyone knows it (I've owned & wheeled many IFS rigs from the sidekick all the way to the 4-Runner. And this FJ Cruiser is a 4-Runner anyways). Shotts has a locker in the front of his 100 which he used (not much, but did nonetheless). Everyone knows the IFS failure storys on the 100 anyways. There is a reason that toyota still offers Solid Axles on the 100 elsewhere around the world.

IFS sucks and everyone knows it???
IFS failures on NA 100 series cruisers???
So what that he had a front locker, I'll bet just about every Land Cruiser at CM had at least one locker, and none of the US FJ series Land Cruisers ever had them from the factory.

I think Toyota enthusiasts have a right to be pissed at Toyota for droping the ball so badly. This is like the H2 is to the H1. H2 is just a suburban with a different body shapped like a hummer. The FJ Cruiser is just a 4-Runner with a body shaped to resemble a Land Cruiser (or a beluga whale, not really sure what they were thinking). I know I'll be using the $30k to import a real land cruiser (HDJ-80) instead.

Body is shorter, wheelbase (relatively) longer, manual tranny option, cheaper (probably significantly), more utilitarian interior, definitely not much correlation to H2/Tahoe, except the fact that it uses a similar platform as another Toyota model.

I know toyota does not care for my opinion and that wont influence what is designed, but that will not change my opinion. I still want to see FR/RR Lockers and FR/RR Solid Axles. If the FJ Cruiser had those I would have been happy.

FZJ 80 series is the only US Land Cruiser ever available that could make you happy I guess. Good luck importing the HDJ-80, really, that would be a very cool rig to have! I am betting you are in Canada, so it should be a piece of cake for you guys.

 

[Pluton]

Think of it as a Tacoma w/ a 2-door wagon body, less than fully-functional styling, perfect for the american car consumers who're hooked on their electric-window-and-tinted-glass heroin.

 

[firetruck41]

Think of it as a Tacoma w/ a 2-door wagon body, less than fully-functional styling, perfect for the american car consumers who're hooked on their electric-window-and-tinted-glass heroin.

Find out more about it before you post, you are just showing your ignorance.

 

[DBS311]

I do not disagree with the fact that the FJC will be capable from the factory. Problem for me is, I do not think it has much potential. Sure, you can lift an IFS truck and lock it up, but to me that is a bandage for the inherent disadvantage of IFS (from an off roading standpoint). Even with traction control or lockers, it still won't be going places that solid axle vehicles will be.

To be honest, I don't care how capable a truck is from the factory because I plan on making modifications. Let's compare an old FJ40 to the FJC. Ok, stock vs. stock, the FJC can probably do more. But what happens when you put a lift on the FJ40? What happens if you do a spring over? What about throwing lockers into it? All of a sudden the FJ40 is smokin' the FJC offroad. It doesn't take much to make a solid axle vehicle extremely capable. For those who are into hard core trails, you would have to do a SAS on the FJC to make it competitive with a solid axle truck.

What I am getting at here is this..............if I want to do Pritchett, Cliff Hanger, Truckhaven, Johnson Valley, Bronco Peak, Choke Cherry Canyon, Behind the Rocks, etc., I can't use an FJ Cruiser. I CAN use an FJ40 with mods, and I CAN use a brand new Wrangler with mods. I could daily drive a Jeep Wrangler with a 4.5" lift, 35" tires, and lockers, and drive all the trails I mentioned above. That ain't happenin' with the FJC.

Are IFS trucks capable? Yes. Do they have the potential to be easily modded for more extreme trails? Hell no. I just want Toyota to build a vehicle that competes with the Jeep Wrangler. So it doesn't have the best handling in the world and you have to slow down for corners (oh no!). But at least then I would have a new Toyota vehicle that rips it up off pavement and is still civilized enough for commuting to work.

Like HZJ60 said, Jeep has the market all to themselves with the Wrangler. Compare the FJC to the Liberty or the Xterra, cuz it can't compete (from an off roader's standpoint) to the Wrangler.

 

[FirstToy]

This is my question: How are 99.9% of all FJC buyers going to use the truck?

The GX470 TrailLex has already done the Rubicon, Good_Times (03 4Runner) has done Moab a year ago (Hells Gate,etc and Truckhaven,Cliffhanger, etc)

both vehicles I would say are more difficult to drive thru those (longer wb)than the FJC. And I would say driver skill & mods have more to do with it than the basic package of any 4x4. I know alot of those trails are far beyond me, no matter what I would be driving.

I think for rocks, you are totally right. Nothing can replace the SFA or Rubicon or built 40 but don't you agree this is a huge step forward for a Toyota suv?

Out of the box, this could legitimately be advertised as the most, or one of the most, capable toyota suv ever made... I think. I keep thinking of a locked 80 but how did they come stock? I forget...

There is alot that could be done to it right now and more mods coming down the pipeline that, I would dare say, make the FJC very very capable for almost anyone.

If you are going 10/10ths rockcrawling, I dont think anyone would take a FJC. It has no history for it. The Wrangler/Rubicon has been out for a long time, mods are all figured out. Give this platform some time in capable Toyota fanatics hands, I'm sure it will develop.

 

[Ocelot]

...but don't you agree this is a huge step forward for a Toyota suv?

Out of the box, this could legitimately be advertised as the most, or one of the most, capable toyota suv ever made... I think. I keep thinking of a locked 80 but how did they come stock? I forget...

I dont really see how it would be a huge step forward for a Toyota SUV... what does it offer that no other Toyota SUV offers or has offered?

Even back 10 years ago in 1995 Toyota was selling the 1996 4-Runner which had IFS, auto or manual transmission, rear locker, V6, and Traction Control. Pretty much exactly the same as the FJ Cruiser. Infact I didn't realise how similar they were untill now. FJ Cruiser is 177.6 inches long, 3rd Gen 4-Runner is 178.7 inches long. FJ Cruiser Wheelbase is 105.9, 3rd Gen 4-Runner is 105.3. Wow the more I learn about the FJ cruiser the more I dislike it.

The FZJ-80 came stock with Front and Rear Lockers, they were an option, and about 20% of the FZJ-80s sold in the states had the option. All FZJ-80s have Solid Axles and a Center Diff Lock.

I have no doubt the FJ Cruiser will be very capable, however Toyota could have done so much better. It pains me to see what they did with something that could have had so much potential.

Anyways I better stop posting b4 I make an a$$ outta myself

 

[FirstToy]

all good points, we will have to see what the production FJ holds.

 

[Aseif007]

I just hope that the FJC's success would prompt the importation of some of the Landcruisers that I like. We all know it will sell well, there are enough high-school girls out there for every car manufacturer.

I used to be an FJC hater, but now I don’t really care. Why waste my time, its just an FJC?? Its not a Land Cruiser, its a 4-runner with the Landcruiser name (excellent marketing) Let people buy that thing, I don’t see anything wrong with that. It will probably outwheel lots of cars stock. It is pointless to argue about it, or defend it. You like it, buy it. Personally, I think it is pretty ugly. I was never a big fan of the RAV, and to me the FJC is a more capable RAV. I can’t wait until it comes out so I can form an opinion on more than just its styling and planned options, my aunt is buying one for my 16 year old niece so maybe I will get to drive one.

 

[TX_TLC]

I will say this again...I dare say that if the FJ Cruiser looked more like the PX10...certain people would bitch that it looks too much like the Jeep Liberty. Some people are never happy...

 

[Jerome3]

i think it looks like an old montero not something id be interesting in. love the front bc its a 40 but from the doors back it just is awkward and doesnt fit im my eyes

 

[Beowulf]

Anyways I better stop posting b4 I make an a$$ outta myself

Too late.

The FZJ-80 came stock with Front and Rear Lockers, they were an option, and about 20% of the FZJ-80s sold in the states had the option.

The best statistic we have is ~7%. If you can back up the 20% number then I would be very interested in where you got this information.

The counts from members on this board (~25%) is highly skewed since every prospective buyer for the past 4 years (incl SOR) has been given the advice to pass on non-locked 80s and keep looking for one with the magic switch.

-B-