Towing with a 200-series Toyota Land Cruiser

[ntsaint]

Yeah the m416 is enough for me behind the 100 for sure.

Really am torn. Most of my use of this new TT will be on pavement and on flat land...

When i started this i thought it would be quick/easy/painless....ugh.

 

[Dan Higgins]

You are certainly not the first to face this dilemna. Some say go choose your TT first, then your TV. But they are the die hard tailer towers that spend a lot of time pulling it around the country.

Pretty cool that your dealer will let you try both scenarios. But do keep in mind that proper hitch setup and loading can make a big difference in feel. Sometimes it take a couple of trips to dial it in. Heck, I'm heading to a nearby state park this week (and working "virtual) so I can get the LC/trailer on flat land and go through a rigorous weighing and measuring/leveling (height) process and also checking the side of my hitch system which is on the LC to make sure I am getting the most out of the WD bar leverage. Point is, you may not get the most realistic experience on a test drive.

 

[TeCKis300]

Speaking of hitches, which ones have people had success with?

My new to me AS came with a Equilizer 4 Point Sway Control hitch. I still need to do some dialing in as my trailer is nose high about 2" at the lowest stinger position. But in my 150 drive home, the setup worked great for sway and WD. My concern is that the Equilizer is also known to have the stiffest non tapered WD bars. Our cars have a ton of flex capability and I'm worried that in more extreme transitions, that it'll put undue stress on the trailer and hitch.

I may dial this setup a bit, maybe even drop from the 1000lb bars to the next lower one to get more flex ability form the hitch. But the Anderson hitch also has me intrigued as it worked great in my 100-series LX470 with Airstream 23D setup.

 

[Sandroad]

Speaking of hitches, which ones have people had success with?

My new to me AS came with a Equilizer 4 Point Sway Control hitch. I still need to do some dialing in as my trailer is nose high about 2" at the lowest stinger position. But in my 150 drive home, the setup worked great for sway and WD. My concern is that the Equilizer is also known to have the stiffest non tapered WD bars. Our cars have a ton of flex capability and I'm worried that in more extreme transitions, that it'll put undue stress on the trailer and hitch.

I may dial this setup a bit, maybe even drop from the 1000lb bars to the next lower one to get more flex ability form the hitch. But the Anderson hitch also has me intrigued as it worked great in my 100-series LX470 with Airstream 23D setup.

I've used the Andersen hitch with both my 100 and 200 for 2 years. Sway control, ease of use, ease of adjustment, and relatively light weight are its strong points. My camper weighs 3900 lbs with a 525 lb tongue weight this summer.

 

[Dan Higgins]

The Andersen is popular with a number of folks on the trailer forum i'm part of. Yet many of them have trailers similar in size to @Sandroad and tow with trucks. My trailer is 6,000# with 720-750# tongue weight. The Hensley and ProPride is a popular one with a lot of Airstream owners (those hitches are expensive - like Airstreams) and this is what I went with. Possibly overkill for what I need. I started with a Hensley Cub (rated for up to 6,000/600 GVWR/tongue weight) and since that put it right at the limit of my trailer I swapped it out for the ProPride 3P. Still trying to get it dialed in. I see you have an Airstream and there is LOTs of discussion on the Hensleys and ProPrides on the Airstream forum (www.airforum.com).

 

[MrCWineMan]

I towed (admittedly not with my 200 because I didn't have it at the time) my '30 AS 12k miles in 90 days with an Equilizer and had no issues, just keep up on the grease and it is a quiet easy tow. I'm still looking for a smaller AS for the 200 now that the '30 is gone, but I'd do an Equilizer again in a heartbeat.

 

[shfd739]

Really struggling on my purchase decision. Went to hopefully pick up a 2455BHS Winn Minnie today and it was side by side with a 27BHSS Minnie Plus.

The Minnie + felt (and was) waaaaaay bigger and roomier. Problem is, at 6500# dry, it's close enough to my truck's 8200# tow limit to give me concern. Plus, 200's total GVW limit is 14,400#, and with 6500# trailer and 5700# truck, i'm only left with 2000# for people, gas, water, and gear. I think I would be under the total, but BARELY.

I am not worried about the extra 4' in length.

Decision. Paralysis. Which is a very new thing for me.

Last summer we bought a Shadow Cruiser 240BHS which is a similar floor plan to the 2455BHS...We had looked at the next step up floor plans like the 27BHSS and the Grand Design 2800BHS but decided against it due to it pushing the limits of the TV we owned at the time.

After a year with the 240 we should've gone bigger. The lack of dedicated sitting space for us gets annoying when the weather is too hot, rainy or cold to be outside. When the weather cooperates and we can spread outdoors the dinette only works fine otherwise I wish we had a sofa to go with the dinette. Another down side is the smaller gray water tank on the smaller units. It's not a problem going somewhere with full hookups but if we go to a place with water/electric only I have to bring the 18gal sewer tote to drain off the gray tank into. With the larger unit we could get thru a weekend without the portable tote. We do try to conserve water but with 2 small children that might need a bath every night and their dishes sometimes we go thru a decent bit.

Our dealer sells Shadow Cruiser and the Winnebagos. We found the Shadow Cruiser to be a little more functional and with better storage. Plus the outdoor kitchen is on a metal pullout so less concerns about damaged wood if it gets wet. IIRC the Winnebago was a decent more but didn't really feel worth it. Initially the Winnebago 2455 was our first choice.

 

[ntsaint]

Last summer we bought a Shadow Cruiser 240BHS which is a similar floor plan to the 2455BHS...We had looked at the next step up floor plans like the 27BHSS and the Grand Design 2800BHS but decided against it due to it pushing the limits of the TV we owned at the time.

After a year with the 240 we should've gone bigger. The lack of dedicated sitting space for us gets annoying when the weather is too hot, rainy or cold to be outside. When the weather cooperates and we can spread outdoors the dinette only works fine otherwise I wish we had a sofa to go with the dinette. Another down side is the smaller gray water tank on the smaller units. It's not a problem going somewhere with full hookups but if we go to a place with water/electric only I have to bring the 18gal sewer tote to drain off the gray tank into. With the larger unit we could get thru a weekend without the portable tote. We do try to conserve water but with 2 small children that might need a bath every night and their dishes sometimes we go thru a decent bit.

Our dealer sells Shadow Cruiser and the Winnebagos. We found the Shadow Cruiser to be a little more functional and with better storage. Plus the outdoor kitchen is on a metal pullout so less concerns about damaged wood if it gets wet. IIRC the Winnebago was a decent more but didn't really feel worth it. Initially the Winnebago 2455 was our first choice.

Excellent info. I'm assuming you are pulling the 24xxx model with your 200 now? Do you feel like you could move up to the larger/longer/heavier model and still be ok with the 200?

 

[shfd739]

Excellent info. I'm assuming you are pulling the 24xxx model with your 200 now? Do you feel like you could move up to the larger/longer/heavier model and still be ok with the 200?

We're actually using an '08 Sequoia Platinum..I lurk the 200 section as I'm hoping to get one later this year. I feel the Sequioa could handle the next size up trailers if I watch the tongue weight. 200s have a couple hundred more lbs of payload than our truck and i think would be fine with a proper hitch setup. If we go up a size I'll be right against the payload max but under the axle, tire, GVWR and GCWR. I'm ok with that- some folks wouldn't be.

Plenty of power with the 5.7 even into head winds. Mileage is a consistent 7-7.5mpg. I'd guess a 200 will be similar.
We're using a Blue Ox hitch with 1000lb bars. Easy to hitch up and tows well enough.

About the only problem I'm having is a lack of tire stiffness on the Sequioa. It has XL Load Range Toyo ATs and with a strong crosswind I can feel the tire squirm causing a small amount of trailer movement sometimes. It's easy to control but gets tiring on longer trips. The next tires I put on it will be a Load Range E LT tires.

I love our trailer but it gets tight when us, 2 kids under 3 and a 95lb dog are forced to spend an afternoon or evening indoors.

 

[ntsaint]

Gotcha, and good to know. I already have E rated tires on the 200, and will be getting a good WD/AS hitch. And if that's not enough i suppose i will take the hit on a Hensley hitch. I'm going with the big trailer unless my demo next week changes my mind.

Thanks!

 

[Dan Higgins]

So I checked my tongue weight this morning on my 6000# GVWR, 27' Lance 2285. I expected it to be about 720#. It was 900#! What the heck? The dry/new rated tongue weight is 615#. 12% of the GVWR of 6,000 would be 720#. I am thinking that the ProPride hitch I put on is about #150. Maybe this is the problem. I did measure the tongue weight with a Sherline scale at the jack stand rather than out on the end of the hitch. Would that make things better or worse? The ProPride is a weight distribution hitch with 1,000# bars and I was able to get the rear wheel wells on the LC to within 1" of normal (34" vs 35"). The front wheel well height is within a half inch of "normal". Thoughts?

 

[TeCKis300]

So I checked my tongue weight this morning on my 6000# GVWR, 27' Lance 2285. I expected it to be about 720#. It was 900#! What the heck? The dry/new rated tongue weight is 615#. 12% of the GVWR of 6,000 would be 720#. I am thinking that the ProPride hitch I put on is about #150. Maybe this is the problem. I did measure the tongue weight with a Sherline scale at the jack stand rather than out on the end of the hitch. Would that make things better or worse? The ProPride is a weight distribution hitch with 1,000# bars and I was able to get the rear wheel wells on the LC to within 1" of normal (34" vs 35"). The front wheel well height is within a half inch of "normal". Thoughts?

A big number but I'm not completely surprised. The ProPride hitch is heavy, but because it puts the hitch ball further forward, it should translate some of the tongue weight back to the trailer wheels. So if you were measuring at the jack stand, the actual weight at the hitch ball should be slightly less.

 

[Sandroad]

So I checked my tongue weight this morning on my 6000# GVWR, 27' Lance 2285. I expected it to be about 720#. It was 900#! What the heck? The dry/new rated tongue weight is 615#. 12% of the GVWR of 6,000 would be 720#. I am thinking that the ProPride hitch I put on is about #150. Maybe this is the problem. I did measure the tongue weight with a Sherline scale at the jack stand rather than out on the end of the hitch. Would that make things better or worse? The ProPride is a weight distribution hitch with 1,000# bars and I was able to get the rear wheel wells on the LC to within 1" of normal (34" vs 35"). The front wheel well height is within a half inch of "normal". Thoughts?

This doesn't surprise me either. The tongue weight of my trailer as listed on the sales info is 280 lbs, but it is 525 lbs going down the road. Loading is everything and weight ads up real quick.

 

[Dan Higgins]

A big number but I'm not completely surprised. The ProPride hitch is heavy, but because it puts the hitch ball further forward, it should translate some of the tongue weight back to the trailer wheels. So if you were measuring at the jack stand, the actual weight at the hitch ball should be slightly less.

Yep. I couldn't find a safe way to locate the scale out on the "stinger" of the ProPride. I suspect being out at the end the LC has about a foot more leverage to use when supporting the load.

Also wondering if things will improve when I change out the OEM shocks/springs for the OME Nitrocharger Sports with new springs. I wasn't going to do this until next year. But @Markuson gave me a set ARB OME 2721 spring (rear) so if towing is a good application for variable rate springs then I may do the suspension upgrade sooner. There is also the air bag option to help a bit leveling the truck - though it is not far off.

I am wondering if it is wise to use these changes (suspension upgrade, helper air bags) to exceed by a small amount the max tongue weight of 850.

 

[Sandroad]

Yep. I couldn't find a safe way to locate the scale out on the "stinger" of the ProPride. I suspect being out at the end the LC has about a foot more leverage to use when supporting the load.

Also wondering if things will improve when I change out the OEM shocks/springs for the OME Nitrocharger Sports with new springs. I wasn't going to do this until next year. But @Markuson gave me a set ARB OME 2721 spring (rear) so if towing is a good application for variable rate springs then I may do the suspension upgrade sooner. There is also the air bag option to help a bit leveling the truck - though it is not far off.

I am wondering if it is wise to use these changes (suspension upgrade, helper air bags) to exceed by a small amount the max tongue weight of 850.

When considering tongue weight effects on suspension, also consider what else you will have in the LC. Will the cargo area be full of the usual heavy stuff and/or passengers? There's a lot of speculation about what the weak link(s) is (are) that caused Toyota to set the tongue weight limit, but it may not be the suspension components. IMHO, it is not wise to exceed the various weight limits of any vehicle.

 

[TeCKis300]

Also wondering if things will improve when I change out the OEM shocks/springs for the OME Nitrocharger Sports with new springs. I wasn't going to do this until next year. But @Markuson gave me a set ARB OME 2721 spring (rear) so if towing is a good application for variable rate springs then I may do the suspension upgrade sooner. There is also the air bag option to help a bit leveling the truck - though it is not far off.

I am wondering if it is wise to use these changes (suspension upgrade, helper air bags) to exceed by a small amount the max tongue weight of 850.

I do believe that suspension, specifically spring rate, is the primary factor for load and tow capacities. The other major variable for towing stability is the wheelbase, more specifically the low wheelbase to rear overhang ratio. The 200-series has a longer rear overhang (rear axle to ball) than even the 100-series. So having a good and properly setup WD/sway hitch is that much more important, with the Propride/Hensley completely mitigating this factor.

In regards to the suspension, the LC spring rates are spec'd for more articulation than load-bearing. By modifying the suspension, more capacity can be had IMO. This has been anecdotally proven by formal Australian approved suspension mods to increase GVWR (search these forums).

Note on the airbags - it's super important to setup WD with the bags at the desired pressure. Because adding more air after setup, will directly negate/relax WD bar tension and hence lose proper WD.

 

[Dan Higgins]

Great info. Thanks! As for load in the LC itsel, we go pretty light. No kids or pets. No toys aside from camera gear and lightweight day hiking.

Thanks for the heads up on the airbags.

As for suspension upgrades, any thoughts on the variable spring rate coils? I believe that is what I have as hand me downs from @Markuson. If I understand the thinking they may fit my use case well as I tow about 10-15 % of the time.

 

[pukicabuki]

I recently towed a '73 F250 on an open trailer a few hundred miles with no issues. Total weight was ~7300lbs.

 

[GordJ]

1500 km/s of chipped gravel at the top, through a forest fire and we just hooked it up and went. No scale, no anti-sway, new Michelin AT2's and gone.

 

[Dan Higgins]

Looks like an awesome trip, @GordJ! Would you mind sharing what trailer you were towing?