towing a 20' enclosed trailer behind an 80

[SUMOTOY]

Yes, a Class IV hitch is rated higher than a class III hitch. That is not what I was talking about.

Class IV is up to 12,000 gross trailer weight. What I was trying to say was just because you bolt a Class IV trailer hitch on to a 80 series truck, it does not legally change the legal tow rating of the 80 series to a capacity of 12K gross trailer weight.

But it certainly does legally change the Gross Combined Vehicle Weight rating of the 80. Not to the maximum of the hitch ball mount, hitch ball or trailer tongue, but of the truck itself. If you put a 2in ball rated at 5000lb/500 tongue on a class IV hitch, you haven't changed the maximum trailer capacity of 5000lbs either. But Ebag333 has this right as he presented it IMO, a Class IV hitch is better rated to the 80 maximum legal towing capacity.

How does "Beefier" when compared to an axle have any reference to the static GVW? You are looking at numbers on paper. D60/D70/D80/Sterling/14bolt housings are all heavier duty/stronger, D60/D70/D80/Sterling/14bolt pinions and ring gears are all bigger/stronger. Everything about them is more robust with the exception of the D60 30 spline shafts as I have said before. For pure giggles, compare the basic weight of each axle and see for yourself.

I grew up with 44/60 axles in my youth. IMO, the 9.5 Toyota is built well, and certainly falls within the 3/4 to 1ton ratings they are known to be installed in overseas. For the 80 'SUV' class it's installed in, it's overkill. And why we don't read about many T9.5>D60 'conversions'. The T9.5 is just not a weak link on the 80, up to it's GCVWR and/or with all sorts of engine swaps. The math just appears to confirm Mr. T overbuilt the rear axle to the specifications of the 80. Hence I put "beefier" in quotation marks.

Scott J
94 FZJ80 Supercharged

 

[Ebag333]

The 80 is not rated for the weight in that US. Meaning, it is illegal to use it to tow that much weight.

It's not a lawsuit, it's the law.. Like speeding or running a stop sign.

First off, it's not just a lawsuit, it's a long discussion with Johnny law about why you exceeded the vehicles tow rating.

Sorry, but this is flat out incorrect.

First off, there is very little in the way of Federal law regulating this. DOT has some very basic regulations regarding towing, but most of it deals with lighting and some basic safety requirements (chains, breakaway systems, etc). The vast majority of the regulations are state, not Federal. So saying "the 80 is not rated for the weight in that [sic] US" is not correct, because there are no Federal weight regulations that I'm able to find.

Now states have quite a few regulations on weights...but the ones that I'm most familiar with (Oregon primarily) we'll quite literally never hit those limits. They really only apply to big rigs, not personal vehicles. We're talking about limits like 34,000 for two axles (even I'm not going to suggest that an 80 can tow that! ). And that's the smallest limit.

Now other states DO have some weight rating limits that a non-commercial vehicle would fall under, but Oregon (and many others) do not.

How Oregon limits weight is actually quite reasonable (more so than a some other states laws I've looked at), they do so by looking at the performance of the vehicle. Basically if you can safely stop it, you can tow it.

To quote from Oregon DMV's page:

4) Do I have to have brakes on my trailer?

Answer: Oregon law requires that any vehicle or combination of vehicles weighing less than 8,000 pounds must be able to stop within a travel lane in 25 feet from 20 miles per hour. If the vehicle or combination of vehicles weighs over 8,000 pounds, the vehicle must be able to stop within a travel lane in 35 feet from 20 miles per hour. Check your owner's manual of the tow vehicle to see what the manufacturer recommends. Most manufacturers recommend trailer brakes if the trailer and load weigh 1,000 pounds or more. (ORS 815.125)

Note that the last two sentences are a recommendation, not a regulation (it's not found in ORS 815 or anywhere else that I can find).

For most states, weight is unlikely to be the limitation that you hit legally. There are many other ones you may hit, and what's legal in one state very well may not be legal in another.

Here's a link to a page that has a massive amount of towing regulations on it, it's a great resource if you're planning on towing (and especially crossing state lines). There's a lot of stuff on there that I wasn't aware of that was regulated, and areas where you're fare more likely to get into trouble than weight limits.

http://www.towingworld.com/articles/TowingLaws.htm

Consider this, how many big rig weigh stations are you going to be driving by on your trip? Highway patrol tends to take weight ratings seriously and you plugging along at 50-55 on a 70 mph highway (and slowing down for corners) will stick out like a sore thumb...

You do not have to get in an accident to have your trip cancelled rapidly and expensively by a man with a big hat and gun...

Around here you wouldn't. Highway patrol takes speed limits seriously, and even in Cali where the speed limit is 70 MPH (all 65 in Oregon), the towing speed limit is still 55.

So plugging along at 50-55 would get you a nod from the State/County/City law enforcement, not a ticket.



FWIW out of the 64 listed (that includes Canada) only 15 have weight regulations that we'd fall under, even towing 7,700 lbs. (The rest either have no regulations or regulations that would only apply to commercial rigs.)

They are:
Alberta, Yukon, Manitoba, Ouebec, British Columbia, Connecticut, Arizona, Kentucky, Lousiana, Nebraska, North Dakota, Utah, California, New Mexico, Flordia

That's only 10 out of 50 US States, so I guess your blanket statements are correct 1/5th of the time.


Oh, and to boot all those mentioned above (except Yukon) have reciprocity, so if you can prove you're following your state laws, you're still legal, even if you're over the limits for that state.



TL;DR: Know your state (and any states you plan on passing through) laws before you try and tow.

 

[ntsqd]

You're ignoring what Toyota was willing to rate it to tow within the US. It really makes no damn difference what Toyota rates them to do in other countries. Most of us live in this one, so this rating is what we have to live with. In the event of any accident one of the first things that will be looked at is was the trailer exceeding the tow vehicle's factory rated capacity. It's a slam dunk, either you were or you weren't. then they'll go down the line of all of the coupling components. Same thing either you did or didn't exceed each part's rating. All a lawyer needs is one under rated component and yer screwed.

Which hitch/ball/whatever is used can only subtract from the factory rating, it can't increase it. Put a 5k rated hitch/ball/whatever on a 6500 lbs tow rated vehicle and you can only tow up to 5k lbs. Put a 14k lbs rated hitch/ball/whatever on a 6500 lbs tow rated vehicle and all you've done is add Factor of Safety, you're still limited to 6500 lbs worth of trailer. The lowest rated component in the chain is the max that can be towed, be that the hitch or the ball or the trailer's coupler or the vehicle itself. Put a non rated hitch/ball/whatever on the vehicle and you're on your own. Most 4x world bumper builders state that the socket is for extraction only and not for towing. The product may handle the max vehicle tow rating just fine, but the mfg's insurance isn't set up to cover that liability.

It isn't enough to "know" that something will be up to the task, can you prove it with engineering calculations and test data? A person's word means zilch in court (a sad thing, but that's digressing...), test results and engineering calculations are needed to prove your case.
And in the spirit of full disclosure, that 5k that I towed was moved using a socket in a bumper that I built. I have not done the full set of calcs on it, I've only looked at the most critical spots and even that was more educated wet thumb in the wind than hard core calcs.

Anyway, I suspect that OP has veered away from this idea. So there's the smilie that I was looking for

 

[Ebag333]

In the event of any accident one of the first things that will be looked at is was the trailer exceeding the tow vehicle's factory rated capacity. It's a slam dunk, either you were or you weren't. then they'll go down the line of all of the coupling components. Same thing either you did or didn't exceed each part's rating. All a lawyer needs is one under rated component and yer screwed.

Very true, but as I've pointed out before, much of what we do falls in this category.

You think if a lifted 80, with over sized tires and a bunch of armor gets in a bad accident (towing or not), that the lawyers aren't going to be rubbing their hands?

If you have aftermarket springs, are they rated for towing? I don't recall see any DOT stamps on my OME springs, so I'm guessing the answer is no.

So basically if you're not 100% OEM (or DOT compliant aftermarket), you're gonna be in trouble.

It's a huge grey area, and will depend heavily on the lawyer, judge, circumstances, etc. You may be fine as you're compliant with the law (if you can prove it), you may not. But that's true just driving a lifted LC down the road. A lawyer would have a field day with most of the rigs on here.

But as you said, this particular topic is a dead horse. Especially since the OP already made up his mind.

 

[Elbert]

Toyota 4x4 Land Cruisers

 

[skersfan]

If you have an accident and you are overloaded, meaning the manufacturers stated weight, you may not be cited, but the attorney for the claiment, will have your ass in a sling. What is stated is the highest the vehicle can safely tow, not horsepower, not cooling, what the vehicle can stop.

I have seen it happen. Most of us with 5th wheels are overloaded normally. But you hit someone kill them and you are toast if you are over the manufacturers vehicle limit. I do not care what state you live in, where the vehicle is registered. I have even heard fo someone paying a large settlement due to having over tinted windows. They will look for any and everything. It is not worth it period.

 

[Mace]

Very true, but as I've pointed out before, much of what we do falls in this category.

You think if a lifted 80, with over sized tires and a bunch of armor gets in a bad accident (towing or not), that the lawyers aren't going to be rubbing their hands?

If you have aftermarket springs, are they rated for towing? I don't recall see any DOT stamps on my OME springs, so I'm guessing the answer is no.

So basically if you're not 100% OEM (or DOT compliant aftermarket), you're gonna be in trouble.

It's a huge grey area, and will depend heavily on the lawyer, judge, circumstances, etc. You may be fine as you're compliant with the law (if you can prove it), you may not. But that's true just driving a lifted LC down the road. A lawyer would have a field day with most of the rigs on here.

But as you said, this particular topic is a dead horse. Especially since the OP already made up his mind.

It's not a huge grey area if you are overloaded, you are at fault. Stock or not..