Totaled...Really...??? (1 Viewer)

[z00t3ch]

So back on November 12th I hit a deer on my way home, about 5 miles from the house. Pretty good amount of debris, headlights were broken but both still worked fine, did notice a trickle of coolant so we left the scene immediately as it was 15-deg outside (and it was night) and I didn't want to be stranded in the country with no heat waiting on a tow. Truck drove fine, I kept an eye on the temp which was easy to keep down since it was so cold outside and I coasted a lot.

Anyway, assessing the damage in the light of day, here's what I know to be damaged:

- Bumper skin
- Crash bumper
- Grill
- All four lighting assemblies
- Hood
- Horns
- All three coolers

The airbags did not deploy and the fenders and fender flares are all 100% fine. I also closely inspected the core support and the ONLY damage to it was a few minor bends where the coolers and whatnot attached to the thin lip via brackets, where those brackets attached the lip is bent but can be very easily straightened, I even own the tool necessary to do so.

I don't want to be naive about this, I'm not an insurance adjuster or a body shop guy, I do understand hidden damage but this was a small buck (~100lbs?) hit at 45-50mph while braking, it broke a lot of plastic bits and folded a bit of cheap sheet metal but did not deploy the airbags, bend the frame, mess up the alignment...nothing. In my mind it's an easy fix, I can literally do the entire job myself, the only alignment needed is the new hood but that's just 4 bolts and some rubber stoppers.

Now...here's the thing...the only shop in Ohio I trust is called Three-C Bodyshop, and they're infamous for pissing off insurers, they are on NOBODY'S approved list and they regularly call out and talk smack about the insurance companies BY NAME on their radio ads. They refuse to use cheap knock-off parts, they require you to sign that you're accepting only OEM...while this is great, and greatly aides a proper repair, it also pushes people close and often times over the insurance company's write-off breaking point. I am not certain if this was the case with mine, the email I got from the body shop today stated that State Farm's own adjuster deemed it a total loss, so I don't know if any conversation was even had with the repair shop.

In any event...I just got the truck a year ago this month. It came from Friendship, TX where it lived a pampered life and received ALL scheduled maintenance from the local Lexus dealer. It is rust-free, dent-free (was anyway), the frame is black and shiny like new, very clean interior, fully loaded minus KDSS. I paid $18,000 for it with 101,000 miles, it currently has 117,000. Kelly Blue Book, which I hate btw, values it at just $10,000 Private Party Value which is ludicrous because $10,000 wouldn't buy that truck a year ago, and still won't now. I recently posted an ad here on the forum for a white 2009 with 71k miles going for $18,995.

Bottom line, I want the truck back. If they want to walk away, fine, but I want a check for my loss and I'm going to repair it along with some thoughtful upgrades along the way. It will receive a Salvage title unfortunately, which will convert to a Rebuilt title after repairs, but in Ohio we can get full coverage even on Rebuilt/Salvage vehicles so I suppose that's okay. If I let them keep the truck and just take a check, they're likely to cite Book Value and I'd be lucky to even get the $10k it lists for, and if I wanted another GX I'd be stuck looking at well-worn units with 200k+ miles...sorry, but no thanks...I've already poured a lot of maintenance dollars into this one, as well as a nice set of wheels and tires.

Anyway, I'm upset so I'm rambling...I am posting this here to get your thoughts and suggestions, please, especially if you've been through similar.

Thanks in advance!

 

[kbahus]

So have they made you an offer yet? I don't see a reason to be up in arms until the numbers are offered, then start your negotiation. No reason to be pre-upset before the facts are on the table.

 

[GXO]

Don’t make a claim and fix it.

 

[z00t3ch]

So have they made you an offer yet? I don't see a reason to be up in arms until the numbers are offered, then start your negotiation. No reason to be pre-upset before the facts are on the table.

I'm upset for a couple reasons: 1) they were totaling my truck over the phone before even seeing it, when I told the claims agent I drove it home but it had a coolant leak, she was like, "Oooh, based on your description it's probably a total loss, and then they had an auto auction place call me to arrange pickup. 2) even if it's only worth $10k on the books, insurance companies ALWAYS elect to do whatever costs less - whether that is repair or total and pay book value. My nephew flipped his 2013 Harley Street Glide end over end and his insurance spent $16,500 repairing it because to pay him current value and total it would have cost $18,000. Take a look at this pic and tell me if you think repairs would exceed $10,000....If not, then what's even worse is they obviously value my vehicle much less than $10k...

Don’t make a claim and fix it.

Even though I know doing it myself would be far less than a shop doing it, it's still going to be a couple thousand bucks...I'm self employed and just bought a new CNC Router and am in the middle of an extensive shop renovation, so I just don't have the cash at the moment and that's why I carry insurance.

 

[little_joe]

First off, glad to hear you were not injured and the vehicle not damaged more severely!

Agree w/ point above about waiting for actual numbers. And while it may be a pain, perhaps taking it to other shops just to get estimates may help with your negotiating. The insurance company uses data to make decisions, you can too. And if Three-C and 2-3 other shops come in, say, around $5k (just a swag), the insurance company may be willing to not write it off and instead pay for actual repairs ($5k < $10k); and save your title status for future value.

If insurance initially offers total loss and $10k, remember that's their starting point. You don't have to accept. The adjuster will ultimately get pressure to settle the case, so you're in position to press your case. If you have another vehicle to DD, all the better.

 

[GXO]

To fix that in a body shop it will likely be around $7000 with OEM parts and a little shopping. To fix that yourself and add a bumper would be around $5000 with outside labor and $3000-3500 with your own labor.

 

[gregnash]

First off, glad you are ok. Always sucks to see things like this happen.
Secondly, take some better pics in the light of day. Hard to tell from that pic what exactly is damaged and how badly.

Thirdly, and this may be a bit inflammatory, insurance companies are not in the business of paying out what is actual value of things. PERIOD. While people's experiences will vary depending on agency, agent, region, etc. plan and simple, they are there to make money, not pay out. My SIL is our agent and one of the "top producers" in the west for State Farm (which they are one of the better companies we have had). But some of the s*** I have heard her say or talk about with regards to different claims (not giving any personal information mind you, just situational) is downright scammy. Far be it for a company that will happily take your money (and lots of it) every month only to sit there and haggle with you about the true value of things and low-ball you constantly.

Since you have already started the claim process you are somewhat between a rock and a hard place. I can understand that you are doing this because funds are tight and whatnot but you are somewhat out of options because they (insurance company) have been informed of an incident. So, what now? Well you got to start bolstering your arsenal for the "perceived value" of the vehicle. This means getting print-outs of examples of trucks like yours. This is going to be a fight for you to get a good number from them. Whatever you do, DO NOT take the first number they throw at you. YOU need to find a number you would be happy with should they (and you) elect to actually total the vehicle AND STICK TO IT! It doesn't sound like you are driving the vehicle currently so I would keep it that way, the vehicle really should not move until things have been finalized. That way they cannot claim it has been "tampered with" during the claims process.

Outside of that, since you know their opinion on the vehicle already (likely total loss) you now need to make the decision of whether you want to fight for that number you came up with (YOUR NUMBER) or take something less, purchase the vehicle back and use the funds to repair the vehicle and go through the Total Loss/Rebuilt/Etc. process with the DMV and whatnot. It sounds like you had not intention of getting rid of the vehicle, so I would say fight with them on the "total loss" price (if they actually do that) and then go the route of repair/rebuilt title, etc.

If you really want to see some horror stories, go over to the 40 and 60 series threads and do some searching. You will see guys that have trucks with super low miles, great condition in and out, etc. only to get pennies offered the first time from the insurance company. Normally, you have it towed to a shop and let it sit there while you go through the process. This is because the insurance company has a timer that starts ticking for "storage charges" once the vehicle damage has been appraised. This number starts coming out of the agents money after a certain time, so they want to work things out as quickly as possible to ensure they don't start losing money and it does not affect their stats.

 

[z00t3ch]

First off, glad to hear you were not injured and the vehicle not damaged more severely!

Agree w/ point above about waiting for actual numbers. And while it may be a pain, perhaps taking it to other shops just to get estimates may help with your negotiating. The insurance company uses data to make decisions, you can too. And if Three-C and 2-3 other shops come in, say, around $5k (just a swag), the insurance company may be willing to not write it off and instead pay for actual repairs ($5k < $10k); and save your title status for future value.

If insurance initially offers total loss and $10k, remember that's their starting point. You don't have to accept. The adjuster will ultimately get pressure to settle the case, so you're in position to press your case. If you have another vehicle to DD, all the better.

Thank you for the sentiment and the advice. I have since talked to the total loss agent and he has *assured* me vehicles are totaled on a case-by-case basis, but I'm pretty sure he chose to total it because of Three-C's reputation. They towed the vehicle for me Friday morning and did an initial disassembly to look deeper and already presented my insurance with a bill for $1276 without fixing a thing... Since it is a loss, I just got off the phone with them and offered $750 to settle the bill with them and they accepted. It was a gamble to take it there because if it was to be repaired, it'd be done correctly...but if it was totaled, there'd be a bill to settle. My other reason for sending it there was because the place my insurance uses literally lost my brother's truck for a few days and when he finally found it they were carrying it around on a forklift, and this was BEFORE it had been assessed. Needless to say I didn't want my truck lost or damaged by some Salvage lot clowns...

To fix that in a body shop it will likely be around $7000 with OEM parts and a little shopping. To fix that yourself and add a bumper would be around $5000 with outside labor and $3000-3500 with your own labor.

That's what I came up with, too. A painted hood is $575.00 shipped, and I'd like to get the satin black vinyl you put on yours which will mitigate any paint match issues. Looking at the Demello front bumper, while I'd prefer aluminum since I'm on OEM suspension, the only one I found was a weld-yourself kit. The Demello is roughly $1750 or so... Radiator is $125.00 and tranny cooler is $65. Couple headlights for $350. Also need a grill and an AC cooler and a refill service. I believe $3000-3500 is right on. Now it's just a matter of negotiating with my agent for final value to see how much I will have left over after doing all this...

 

[z00t3ch]

Pics after body shop's initial teardown:

 

[z00t3ch]

this may be a bit inflammatory, insurance companies are not in the business of paying out what is actual value of things. PERIOD. While people's experiences will vary depending on agency, agent, region, etc. plan and simple, they are there to make money, not pay out. My SIL is our agent and one of the "top producers" in the west for State Farm (which they are one of the better companies we have had). But some of the s*** I have heard her say or talk about with regards to different claims (not giving any personal information mind you, just situational) is downright scammy. Far be it for a company that will happily take your money (and lots of it) every month only to sit there and haggle with you about the true value of things and low-ball you constantly.

Oh, I know, you're exactly right - Insurance companies are casinos and the house never loses. Also doesn't help that the book values they go by are almost always far lower than replacement cost.

Since you have already started the claim process you are somewhat between a rock and a hard place. I can understand that you are doing this because funds are tight and whatnot but you are somewhat out of options because they (insurance company) have been informed of an incident. So, what now? Well you got to start bolstering your arsenal for the "perceived value" of the vehicle. This means getting print-outs of examples of trucks like yours. This is going to be a fight for you to get a good number from them. Whatever you do, DO NOT take the first number they throw at you. YOU need to find a number you would be happy with should they (and you) elect to actually total the vehicle AND STICK TO IT! It doesn't sound like you are driving the vehicle currently so I would keep it that way, the vehicle really should not move until things have been finalized. That way they cannot claim it has been "tampered with" during the claims process.

The total loss agent already threw out a number of $9500. But he asked me if my truck was missing the entire right side of the cargo area interior when it left my house, to which I replied,"Yes, because I'm in the middle of an audio system install and I have all the interior panels at home". He said value would go up somewhat if I could produce the panels, which I will. But I also said we'd need to have a separate conversation about value and he said he expected as much. I will take your advice and compile local ads for this truck as well as my purchase paperwork from a year ago as "proof" they fetch far more than Kelly seems to think they do. If he's a little North of $9500 with all the panels put back, I'd like to see if I can get it closer to $12,500.00 - but that may be a bit ambitious...

 

[Jstawgn]

My wife crashed my car last year. Book value 8500 and insurance to fix 6500 and they still fix it.

That damage does look like structural. It should be fixable.

 

[gregnash]

Oh, I know, you're exactly right - Insurance companies are casinos and the house never loses. Also doesn't help that the book values they go by are almost always far lower than replacement cost.

The total loss agent already threw out a number of $9500. But he asked me if my truck was missing the entire right side of the cargo area interior when it left my house, to which I replied,"Yes, because I'm in the middle of an audio system install and I have all the interior panels at home". He said value would go up somewhat if I could produce the panels, which I will. But I also said we'd need to have a separate conversation about value and he said he expected as much. I will take your advice and compile local ads for this truck as well as my purchase paperwork from a year ago as "proof" they fetch far more than Kelly seems to think they do. If he's a little North of $9500 with all the panels put back, I'd like to see if I can get it closer to $12,500.00 - but that may be a bit ambitious...

Correct, that is a good analogy. They definitely are casinos and only in the business of ensuring they are profitable. I mean how else are the agents supposed to afford their fifth "business trip" to florida/cancun/mexico/etc. LOL

And when gathering your information, definitely do no just limit it to local sales. Go nationwide using sites like AutoTempest, CarGurus, AutoTrader, etc. find the one's that resemble your truck as closely as possible and utilize those to come up with the "perceived value" based off that information.

My wife crashed my car last year. Book value 8500 and insurance to fix 6500 and they still fix it.

That damage does look like structural. It should be fixable.

Right. They fixed it because the repair cost was lower than the book value. This is not the case here, they are considering it a loss due to the perceived repair costs being higher than what they have the book value as (or closer than yours).

 

[little_joe]

If you really want to see some horror stories, go over to the 40 and 60 series threads and do some searching. You will see guys that have trucks with super low miles, great condition in and out, etc. only to get pennies offered the first time from the insurance company.

Part of the issue is simply education or the tactics of the salesperson. I bought a stock 71 40 and got a stated value policy on it - these have limitations about use/mileage which I was fine with, but for a DD probably not a great idea. I had an onroad rollover accident, which ruined every 1971 piece of steel and glass on the thing. I got every penny of my stated value policy, the only haggling was my buy-back price. They met on my terms.

While smashing a beautiful relic and breaking ribs sucked beyond belief, financially I came out all right. For non-DD, this is kind of a no-brainer if only people know about it.

 

[ebbs15]

this is one of the reasons why I don't always go with the cheapest insurance. I'll pay more for good customer service. USAA(for those that can get it) has always done right by me.

Hope all turns out well for ya

 

[dcg141]

Looks like a perfect excuse to buy an aftermarket bumper!!!

 

[z00t3ch]

So, verdict is in...State Farm estimated my repairs at ~$9500.00, and its ACV (Actual Cash Value) at $10,254.00, so that's why they totaled it. How they expect me to find a fully loaded 2007 with 117k miles this clean for $10,254.00 well...don't even get me started...

What's more, after telling me the truck wasn't worth a penny, it suddenly became a super hot ticket item when it came to auction/salvage value where it was guaranteed to bring $5375.00 as-is. Sooo...subtracting the buy-back of $5375.00 from the ACV (+tax), they sent me an instant transfer of $5600.78.

I'm not very happy at all with those numbers, but I don't have an attorney or time to mess with all that. I fought and negotiated what I could and this was the best they were willing to do. With a new painted hood, new headlights, three new coolers, a new grill, and a MetalTech Goblin front bumper, parts cost is sitting right at $3250.00. I still need to pay my mechanic for an AC recharge and eventually upgrade the Goblin bumper to Stage 3, but I am coming out with a bit of cash in my pocket, albeit a pittance compared to what a shop would receive for labor.

There is no moral to this story...I've been driving for 26 years and this is my first insurance claim ever...the idea used to be that insurance would put you back as close to the way things were before the incident, but reality is they'd rather cut me a check for $10,240 and then auction MY truck for $5375.00 than fix my truck for $9500 so I could keep driving it. Totaling my truck in this case would actually cost them thousands of dollars less. Why my truck instantly becomes their property to sell at auction is beyond me, but I also struggle to understand slot machines that are pre-programmed to payout when the casino has brought in enough revenue to squeeze a little bit of it out...

YRMV...

 

[ADVFamilyHauler]

Insurance is of the devil.

 

[z00t3ch]

IT'S ALIVE!!!

NEW:

- Radiator
- AC condenser
- Trans Cooler
- Clutch Fan
- Electric Fan
- Thermostat
- Coolant Hoses
- Radiator Cap
- Headlight Assemblies
- MetalTech Goblin Front Bumper (here, not installed)

Have bought TWO brand new hoods from two different vendors, both smashed to hell during shipping...awaiting refund for the second and still looking for a third...

 

[CarolinaGX]

Congrats on your major progress! And, Happy New Year!

 

[z00t3ch]

Pics of my MetalTech bumper going on and my Stebel Nautilus air horn: