Total or not ?

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Update: It has been totaled by GIECO, they are offering me cash value and basically told me we don't care how much you spent on up keep, or the market price of the LX. This is what you will get. They sent me CCC report to dispute if I want to but I don't know what to dispute on it. He basically told me we are not a warranty just here to help you a little.
CCC report - That's the market value report put together by the insurance company's appraiser, right? I think my insurance company used them too. Your insurance co DOES owe you market value, but they're more or less right that it doesn't matter what you spent on the car. Sometimes what you spend on the car adds to market value, sometimes it does not.

There are two ways to dispute CCC's valuation - hire an appraiser to build your own valuation or take CCC's raw data and blow it apart, then replace it with new data. I'd suggest at least starting down the path of doing it yourself at least until you figure out if you have a case. At that point you can decide whether you have the time or prefer paying somebody to do it for you.

The CCC report will take 3-6 other LCs ostensibly in similar condition and use those to approximate the value of yours. So... Take each one of their comparable cars and see what you can find. With any luck you know somebody who has a CarFax account and they can run each one through a CarFax report and see what kind of history it had. Often the cars used in the comp are advertised on dealer websites, so search the VIN numbers and see if you can find the listings. From sources like these, collect photos and information about each comp and see if it fairly approximates your car.

In my case (and going from memory a couple years back), CCC gave me an initial value of 21K based on 3 comparable cars, but they included an additional 3 cars that were not used in the calculation, but supported their valuation. I ran the VIN for each of those 6 cars through a CarFax report and discovered that of the 6 cars, 4 had been in prior wrecks (mine had not) and one had an invalid VIN number - maybe a typo or maybe fraudulent. The last of the 6 cars had photos of extensive undercarriage rust on the dealer's website (mine was completely rust free). I then found several other LCs for sale around different dealers that had much higher asking prices and eventually was able to get the insurance company to increase the payout from 21K to 28.5K (both those then got grossed up for taxes).

An appraiser would do mostly the same type of work, but they might have more tools available to them (e.g., unlimited carfax reports, auction sales data, etc) or more experience of where to find good comps or what kind of adjustments to make.

They'll be very resistant, but most of the time they will come around to something reasonable if you give them realistic numbers. Do a lot of leg work, pull a ton of data, and be realistic.

As the prior post mentions, the more you convince them to agree on a higher value, the more likely it is that they will repair it instead of totaling it, and if they do total it, the more they will likely charge you if you want to buy the wreck and get it fixed yourself.
 
CCC report - That's the market value report put together by the insurance company's appraiser, right? I think my insurance company used them too. Your insurance co DOES owe you market value, but they're more or less right that it doesn't matter what you spent on the car. Sometimes what you spend on the car adds to market value, sometimes it does not.

There are two ways to dispute CCC's valuation - hire an appraiser to build your own valuation or take CCC's raw data and blow it apart, then replace it with new data. I'd suggest at least starting down the path of doing it yourself at least until you figure out if you have a case. At that point you can decide whether you have the time or prefer paying somebody to do it for you.

The CCC report will take 3-6 other LCs ostensibly in similar condition and use those to approximate the value of yours. So... Take each one of their comparable cars and see what you can find. With any luck you know somebody who has a CarFax account and they can run each one through a CarFax report and see what kind of history it had. Often the cars used in the comp are advertised on dealer websites, so search the VIN numbers and see if you can find the listings. From sources like these, collect photos and information about each comp and see if it fairly approximates your car.

In my case (and going from memory a couple years back), CCC gave me an initial value of 21K based on 3 comparable cars, but they included an additional 3 cars that were not used in the calculation, but supported their valuation. I ran the VIN for each of those 6 cars through a CarFax report and discovered that of the 6 cars, 4 had been in prior wrecks (mine had not) and one had an invalid VIN number - maybe a typo or maybe fraudulent. The last of the 6 cars had photos of extensive undercarriage rust on the dealer's website (mine was completely rust free). I then found several other LCs for sale around different dealers that had much higher asking prices and eventually was able to get the insurance company to increase the payout from 21K to 28.5K (both those then got grossed up for taxes).

An appraiser would do mostly the same type of work, but they might have more tools available to them (e.g., unlimited carfax reports, auction sales data, etc) or more experience of where to find good comps or what kind of adjustments to make.

They'll be very resistant, but most of the time they will come around to something reasonable if you give them realistic numbers. Do a lot of leg work, pull a ton of data, and be realistic.

As the prior post mentions, the more you convince them to agree on a higher value, the more likely it is that they will repair it instead of totaling it, and if they do total it, the more they will likely charge you if you want to buy the wreck and get it fixed yourself.
I went through the same thing with my Cruiser last year when I got hit and it was totaled. They pulled 3 comps on horrible cars and gave me an initial low ball offer. I pulled a bunch of better comps and sent it to my adjuster. He was actually really easy to work with. They even threw in some value for my after market parts.

Went from an initial $7,900 low ball to $12,640. Probably could have gotten a little more if I kept pushing it.

Did a thread on the whole ordeal.
RIP Gudmundur 2.0 - TOTALED - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/rip-gudmundur-2-0-totaled.1222036/
 
You can certainly engage your own insurance to help with this. But, I don't get what you aren't sure about disputing - the value. Pull comparable sales and listings for similar year, model, miles. But, be aware that the more you jack up the amount you're asking for, the more they're going to want from you for buy back (if you do that).

Now that you say it is easy to dispute the value, however my head is still spinning because of all this. I am not sure if I want to buy it back, I don't have a garage or time to fix it. I would love to but I am sure I will end up spending more because everything is so expensive for these rigs.
 
I went through the same thing with my Cruiser last year when I got hit and it was totaled. They pulled 3 comps on horrible cars and gave me an initial low ball offer. I pulled a bunch of better comps and sent it to my adjuster. He was actually really easy to work with. They even threw in some value for my after market parts.

Went from an initial $7,900 low ball to $12,640. Probably could have gotten a little more if I kept pushing it.

Did a thread on the whole ordeal.
RIP Gudmundur 2.0 - TOTALED - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/rip-gudmundur-2-0-totaled.1222036/
CCC report - That's the market value report put together by the insurance company's appraiser, right? I think my insurance company used them too. Your insurance co DOES owe you market value, but they're more or less right that it doesn't matter what you spent on the car. Sometimes what you spend on the car adds to market value, sometimes it does not.

There are two ways to dispute CCC's valuation - hire an appraiser to build your own valuation or take CCC's raw data and blow it apart, then replace it with new data. I'd suggest at least starting down the path of doing it yourself at least until you figure out if you have a case. At that point you can decide whether you have the time or prefer paying somebody to do it for you.

The CCC report will take 3-6 other LCs ostensibly in similar condition and use those to approximate the value of yours. So... Take each one of their comparable cars and see what you can find. With any luck you know somebody who has a CarFax account and they can run each one through a CarFax report and see what kind of history it had. Often the cars used in the comp are advertised on dealer websites, so search the VIN numbers and see if you can find the listings. From sources like these, collect photos and information about each comp and see if it fairly approximates your car.

In my case (and going from memory a couple years back), CCC gave me an initial value of 21K based on 3 comparable cars, but they included an additional 3 cars that were not used in the calculation, but supported their valuation. I ran the VIN for each of those 6 cars through a CarFax report and discovered that of the 6 cars, 4 had been in prior wrecks (mine had not) and one had an invalid VIN number - maybe a typo or maybe fraudulent. The last of the 6 cars had photos of extensive undercarriage rust on the dealer's website (mine was completely rust free). I then found several other LCs for sale around different dealers that had much higher asking prices and eventually was able to get the insurance company to increase the payout from 21K to 28.5K (both those then got grossed up for taxes).

An appraiser would do mostly the same type of work, but they might have more tools available to them (e.g., unlimited carfax reports, auction sales data, etc) or more experience of where to find good comps or what kind of adjustments to make.

They'll be very resistant, but most of the time they will come around to something reasonable if you give them realistic numbers. Do a lot of leg work, pull a ton of data, and be realistic.

As the prior post mentions, the more you convince them to agree on a higher value, the more likely it is that they will repair it instead of totaling it, and if they do total it, the more they will likely charge you if you want to buy the wreck and get it fixed yourself.

Thank You this helps, I will start doing my research and see where I get. I am not getting a bad number from them but a little more that would be helpful. Buyback would be great but lack of garage and time is a huge constraint.
 
Update: It has been totaled by GIECO, they are offering me cash value and basically told me we don't care how much you spent on up keep, or the market price of the LX. This is what you will get. They sent me CCC report to dispute if I want to but I don't know what to dispute on it. He basically told me we are not a warranty just here to help you a little.

Is Geico your insurer or the other driver’s?
 
Is Geico your insurer or the other driver’s?
Mine, and the other guy. Luckily my deductible is only 500$ so not losing too much on that front.
 
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Mine, the other guy had something Calle government employee insurance co. Luckily my deductible is only 500$ so not losing too much on that front.
LOL had no idea that's what GIECO stand for. So I guess we have the same insurance.
 
Now that you say it is easy to dispute the value, however my head is still spinning because of all this. I am not sure if I want to buy it back, I don't have a garage or time to fix it. I would love to but I am sure I will end up spending more because everything is so expensive for these rigs.
That truck has an easy twenty k in damage from a repair shop. It’s totaled at nearly every value they give. You don’t have to buy back nor should you. The goal is to get you cash plus taxes to get you into the same vehicle with Comparable miles features and condition. My completely stock truck I bought for 13 can not be replaced as a completely stock truck for under twenty off a dealer lot even before pandemic. I would not accept under that for my truck and would put in the hours to capture that seven grand in comps.

Make sure that since geico is covering both sides, that you mention that you expect they are working on behalf of you and not geico.

If the adjuster said something condescending about you not understanding, be sure to reply that you won’t accept the payment until you do understand, and you will have your lawyers help you understand because that same dickhead would want the same for themselves and if they knew anything about cars vs insurance, they would understand a maintained car has higher value than a s***box. AND THEY DO WARRANTY REPAIRS from accident when you use their shops and that shows that adjusters lack of common decency in not knowing they do provide warrantees as part of their job. Have zero respect for these types whose only goal is to cut every corner and have a formula to justify it. I’m the guy when if they screw me for ten grand, I will waste twenty grand of their time.


Insurance primarily protects their bottom line, they HAVE A LEGAL OBLIGATION to make you whole, not an ethical one. NEVER EVER accept their first, second offers. If the person really said they don’t care about market value, I really hope that was in an email. Perhaps now tell this person that you’d like all communications done by email so your lawyer can understand why an insurance company willfully tried to mislead you from the truth and true legal nature of their obligation. Does he tell other customers that too? Fraud city with that adjuster or office and they should be investigated through complaint with the state.

Do not leave one variable on the table that you do not control because I can definitively say a lawyer would walk you through this costing that company tons in money after all of the medical a physical therapy evaluations they would have you do, including lost wages from those processes, pain, suffering, etc. These vampires take advantage of those people willing to make an easy transaction to get their cars fixed, so please do not make it easy for them to add another artificially low value in their database.

Many of us have been screwed once earlier in our lives and now try to makes sure others benefit from our experiences, and suck those vampires dry. Cost me twenty grand and a car when I could not afford it, never again.

It won’t take long. It just sucks. Good luck.

If you need carfax, there’s usually people on car forums that will run them super cheap for you.
 
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That truck has an easy twenty k in damage from a repair shop. It’s totaled at nearly every value they give. You don’t have to buy back nor should you. The goal is to get you cash plus taxes to get you into the same vehicle with Comparable miles features and condition. My completely stock truck I bought for 13 can not be replaced as a completely stock truck for under twenty off a dealer lot even before pandemic. I would not accept under that for my truck and would put in the hours to capture that seven grand in comps.

Make sure that since geico is covering both sides, that you mention that you expect they are working on behalf of you and not geico.

If the adjuster said something condescending about you not understanding, be sure to reply that you won’t accept the payment until you do understand, and you will have your lawyers help you understand because that same dickhead would want the same for themselves and if they knew anything about cars vs insurance, they would understand a maintained car has higher value than a s***box. AND THEY DO WARRANTY REPAIRS from accident when you use their shops and that shows that adjusters lack of common decency in not knowing they do provide warrantees as part of their job. Have zero respect for these types whose only goal is to cut every corner and have a formula to justify it. I’m the guy when if they screw me for ten grand, I will waste twenty grand of their time.


Insurance primarily protects their bottom line, they HAVE A LEGAL OBLIGATION to make you whole, not an ethical one. NEVER EVER accept their first, second offers. If the person really said they don’t care about market value, I really hope that was in an email. Perhaps now tell this person that you’d like all communications done by email so your lawyer can understand why an insurance company willfully tried to mislead you from the truth and true legal nature of their obligation. Does he tell other customers that too? Fraud city with that adjuster or office and they should be investigated through complaint with the state.

Do not leave one variable on the table that you do not control because I can definitively say a lawyer would walk you through this costing that company tons in money after all of the medical a physical therapy evaluations they would have you do, including lost wages from those processes, pain, suffering, etc. These vampires take advantage of those people willing to make an easy transaction to get their cars fixed, so please do not make it easy for them to add another artificially low value in their database.

Many of us have been screwed once earlier in our lives and now try to makes sure others benefit from our experiences, and suck those vampires dry. Cost me twenty grand and a car when I could not afford it, never again.

It won’t take long. It just sucks. Good luck.

If you need carfax, there’s usually people on car forums that will run them super cheap for you.
Thank You for you response. He was very condescending and plainly said I don't care for your car or its condition. I kept very clam and professional but at numerous times I has to control myself because of his response.

I am working on the comp they gave me and one of the LX out of the 3 does not even exist or at least not at the dealership the CCC states it is. The other two have extensive repairs that are needed. Tail gate rust, interior shot, and AHC busted. Both of them priced at 12K. Unfortunately I cannot find a comparable LX to send them. There is nothing on cars.com in 250 miles radius of Central Pa. Mostly are 200q LX and up and I believe they will not accept that as a comp. I am thinking of including LC's but the way he acted he is going to be a jerk about it.

Would they accept comps from mud, Facebook, or Craigslist ?
 
Thank You for you response. He was very condescending and plainly said I don't care for your car or its condition. I kept very clam and professional but at numerous times I has to control myself because of his response.

I am working on the comp they gave me and one of the LX out of the 3 does not even exist or at least not at the dealership the CCC states it is. The other two have extensive repairs that are needed. Tail gate rust, interior shot, and AHC busted. Both of them priced at 12K. Unfortunately I cannot find a comparable LX to send them. There is nothing on cars.com in 250 miles radius of Central Pa. Mostly are 200q LX and up and I believe they will not accept that as a comp. I am thinking of including LC's but the way he acted he is going to be a jerk about it.

Would they accept comps from mud, Facebook, or Craigslist ?
It's a low volume car, so they won't have a choice but to accept comps from multiple sources and a little wider geography, especially if you've already shown them the comps they initially chose are crappy.
 
It's a low volume car, so they won't have a choice but to accept comps from multiple sources and a little wider geography, especially if you've already shown them the comps they initially chose are crappy.
Good point, I will increase the search area and include comps comparable to my condition.
 
Update: It has been totaled by GIECO, they are offering me cash value and basically told me we don't care how much you spent on up keep, or the market price of the LX. This is what you will get. They sent me CCC report to dispute if I want to but I don't know what to dispute on it. He basically told me we are not a warranty just here to help you a little.

Sorry to hear this. How many miles on your rig (biggest factor towards value)? I would go to BaT and look at completed sales of LX470's. There you will find the highest prices sold for LX's on the market.

Modified 2006 w 191k miles bid to $30K Modified 2006 Lexus LX470 - https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2006-lexus-lx-33/

Stock '04 w 119K miles sold $26K No Reserve: 2004 Lexus LX470 - https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2004-lexus-lx470-20/

Stock '06 w 41K miles sold for $59K 41k-Mile 2006 Lexus LX470 - https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2006-lexus-lx-28/

Stock '06 w 115K miles sold for $34K 2006 Lexus LX470 - https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2006-lexus-lx-29/

And there's a '99 w 80K miles currently at $20K with 3 days to go 2006 Lexus LX470 - https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2006-lexus-lx-29/
 
Sorry to hear this. How many miles on your rig (biggest factor towards value)? I would go to BaT and look at completed sales of LX470's. There you will find the highest prices sold for LX's on the market.

Modified 2006 w 191k miles bid to $30K Modified 2006 Lexus LX470 - https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2006-lexus-lx-33/

Stock '04 w 119K miles sold $26K No Reserve: 2004 Lexus LX470 - https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2004-lexus-lx470-20/

Stock '06 w 41K miles sold for $59K 41k-Mile 2006 Lexus LX470 - https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2006-lexus-lx-28/

Stock '06 w 115K miles sold for $34K 2006 Lexus LX470 - https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2006-lexus-lx-29/

And there's a '99 w 80K miles currently at $20K with 3 days to go 2006 Lexus LX470 - https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2006-lexus-lx-29/
Thank You, My rig has 208k miles, not too low but I would say in the middle of the group. Yes Bat is something I could look at but don't you think comparing it to anything above 2001 would be a stretch ? It is very frustrating especially when my first contact with them was so bad.
 
Just curious, was your ARB drilled and pinned in place when it was installed?

Good luck getting things sorted out!
Just saw your message, it was drilled and pinned in place. The bolts that pin it are completely missing looks like they sheared off.
 
Thank You, My rig has 208k miles, not too low but I would say in the middle of the group. Yes Bat is something I could look at but don't you think comparing it to anything above 2001 would be a stretch ? It is very frustrating especially when my first contact with them was so bad.
You can filter sold results by year so here's how it looks for 1998-2001:



'99 w 186k miles sold $15,750 No Reserve: 1999 Lexus LX470 - https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1999-lexus-lx470-9/

'99 w 131k miles sold $16,100 No Reserve: 1999 Lexus LX470 - https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1999-lexus-lx470-8/

Modified '00 w 170k miles sold $26,000 Modified 2000 Lexus LX470 - https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2000-lexus-lx-19/
 
You can filter sold results by year so here's how it looks for 1998-2001:



'99 w 186k miles sold $15,750 No Reserve: 1999 Lexus LX470 - https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1999-lexus-lx470-9/

'99 w 131k miles sold $16,100 No Reserve: 1999 Lexus LX470 - https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1999-lexus-lx470-8/

Modified '00 w 170k miles sold $26,000 Modified 2000 Lexus LX470 - https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2000-lexus-lx-19/
Thank You, I am slowly building my comp list. I found some on auto trader a little farther than me and I will use this list.
 

'99 sold for $28,500.
 

'99 sold for $28,500.
Wow that a good price. I sent the insurance person some of my own comps. The comp they sent was not accurate, both of the LX were very shady, one had a huge hole in the cross member. They are going to get back to me tomorrow and hopefully it is something I can work with.
 

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