Torque Steer / Bump Steer after lift???

Joined
Jun 16, 2008
Messages
102
My TLC drove great before the lift, modifications and tires but now I'm experiencing torque steer and bump steer. I need your help. Here are the mods:
I started with a stock 2005 TLC with 50k miles, then added
- OME torsion bars
- Bilstein shocks (front and rear)
- Carls Upper control arms
- Slee diff drop
- regear to 4.88's and ARB lockers
- 17" TLC wheels
- 35" tires
- ARB front bumper
- Slee rear bumper
- Slee skid plates
- 1.38" wheel spacers in front (hub centric and wheel centric)
- 1.25" wheel spacers in rear (hub centric and wheel centric)

Now when I take off from a Stop, the wheel pulls slightly left, then to the right. If I get on the gas at speed, the vehicle pulls right.
When cycling the frontend through it's travel, the "toe in" changes alot in a small amout of travel.
My background is off-road racing and bump steer is always a big concern with offroad cars with alot of wheel travel. But a TLC should not have this much bump steer.
I have 2 issues:
Torque steer - pulls to the right while on the gas. More gas/torque = stronger pull to the right
Bump Steer - While my front tires are moving up and down, the toe changes dramatically and I feel it in the steering.

I did many different searches and I found some info, but I need more help.
Thanks
James
 
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Jim, have you checked the amount of front droop you have? You could be lifting a front tire if you have little to no front droop [I believe this would cause the torque steer]. Also, have you had it aligned since the lift/arms/tires?

I [we] would love to see a picture of your ride.
 

LandCruiserPhil

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With all the mods to the front end I didn't see anything on the sway bar. I'm not sure if the sway bar being out of whack could create bump steer or torque steer but it is the only part not addressed in the lift. Just thinking out loud...

Do you notice the lift in the front end under strong acceleration?
 

Letsgomoreplaces

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steer

If you have the suspension cranked up to high you'll get tourque steer. this is because excessive angle on the arms. Also bad alignment will cause tourque steer. I dont reccomend going over 2.5-3" above stock height. Since you have more downtravel now than most others w/ stock or OME, you cant follow the same droop rule. The purpose of this setup is to have more droop not more lift. If you ran it with same amount of droop as OME you would have about 4" of lift, this is just too much. Whats your measurement from bottom of wheel well lip to center of wheel?


q
My TLC drove great before the lift, modifications and tires but now I'm experiencing torque steer and bump steer. I need your help. Here are the mods:
I started with a stock 2005 TLC with 50k miles, then added
- OME torsion bars
- Bilstein shocks (front and rear)
- Carls Upper control arms
- Slee diff drop
- regear to 4.88's and ARB lockers
- 17" TLC wheels
- 35" tires
- ARB front bumper
- Slee rear bumper
- Slee skid plates
- 1.38" wheel spacers in front (hub centric and wheel centric)
- 1.25" wheel spacers in rear (hub centric and wheel centric)

Now when I take off from a Stop, the wheel pulls slightly left, then to the right. If I get on the gas at speed, the vehicle pulls right.
When cycling the frontend through it's travel, the "toe in" changes alot in a small amout of travel.
My background is off-road racing and bump steer is always a big concern with offroad cars with alot of wheel travel. But a TLC should not have this much bump steer.
I have 2 issues:
Torque steer - pulls to the right while on the gas. More gas/torque = stronger pull to the right
Bump Steer - While my front tires are moving up and down, the toe changes dramatically and I feel it in the steering.

I did many different searches and I found some info, but I need more help.
Thanks
James
 

hoser

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James,

The two biggest contributors of your torque steer/bump steer is probably lift and the front wheel spacers. Lift, because your tie rod arms are now further from horizontal, so every time the suspension droops (when taking off) or compresses (hitting a bump) your toe setting changes more drastically than at stock height.

Most all FWD cars use very high offset wheels to help reduce torque steer. You want the center of the tire right over the centerline of the steering knuckle. Anymore outwards and it acts as a lever. So, your wheel spacers don't help as they change the offset from where the Toyota engineers wanted it.

Things you can do to help your situation would be dial-in as much caster as you can (within reason), get rid of spacers or get smaller ones, convert to Part-time 4WD, lower suspension, get some sort of LSD for front differential (no clue if this is possible), make sure all your front end bushings are good and lastly, rework the steering arms/mounting points but that could be tricky business left to the pros.
 

Letsgomoreplaces

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torque steer

Agreed, accept for the LSD. An LSD will make torque steer worse. Not that it matters since they do not exist anyways. Wheel spacers contribute, however I run more or less the same setup as james and had some major torque steer on the way to the alignment shop after I first installed it. I had the lift hieght about 3.5" over stock, which is just too much. moved it back down around 2.5-3" and its good to go now even with the spacers. Mine is my wifes DD now and spends a lot of time on the road and drives better than any cruiser ive ever driven. Its great to be able to cruise in comfort wether pavement or highspeed washboard.



James,

The two biggest contributors of your torque steer/bump steer is probably lift and the front wheel spacers. Lift, because your tie rod arms are now further from horizontal, so every time the suspension droops (when taking off) or compresses (hitting a bump) your toe setting changes more drastically than at stock height.

Most all FWD cars use very high offset wheels to help reduce torque steer. You want the center of the tire right over the centerline of the steering knuckle. Anymore outwards and it acts as a lever. So, your wheel spacers don't help as they change the offset from where the Toyota engineers wanted it.

Things you can do to help your situation would be dial-in as much caster as you can (within reason), get rid of spacers or get smaller ones, convert to Part-time 4WD, lower suspension, get some sort of LSD for front differential (no clue if this is possible), make sure all your front end bushings are good and lastly, rework the steering arms/mounting points but that could be tricky business left to the pros.
 

hoser

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Auburn Gear just announced a new LSD for 8" and 8.4" Toyota diffs... will it work?

James, if you are serious about reducing torque steer, somehow fitting the superior Torsen center differential from the 200 would help too. :grinpimp:
 
Joined
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Messages
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Thanks for everyones feedback. The Cruiser has been aligned, so I'm thinking it's a combo of lift height and wheel spacers. The wheel spacers were custom made and I measured them and they're bigger than 1-3/8"!!!! I'm having the guy build new ones and I'll lower the frontend as well (I'll take the current measurement and post it in a few minutes)

jg
 

hoser

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Do you happen to have the post alignment printout? I'd like to know how good they were able to get the caster adjustment with those UCA's.
 
Joined
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Messages
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Do you happen to have the post alignment printout? I'd like to know how good they were able to get the caster adjustment with those UCA's.

No, but I'll see if I can get it.

The measurement from:
top of wheel well/bottom of fender TO center of hub is 21-3/4".
Is that too high?

jg
 

hoser

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JG's rig.
photo.jpg
photo[1].jpg
photo[2].jpg
 
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Letsgomoreplaces

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locker

Nope the auburn wont fit. But as typical with most aftermarket suppliers, they list Landcruiser as one of the applications. They also say that LC uses the 8.4" rear. They just dont know any better. This new auburn will only fit the 8" rear or solid axle front type. The 8.4" will only fit rear non-locker tacoma or 06 & down tundra. Besides, an LSD would only make torque steer worse.


Auburn Gear just announced a new LSD for 8" and 8.4" Toyota diffs... will it work?

James, if you are serious about reducing torque steer, somehow fitting the superior Torsen center differential from the 200 would help too. :grinpimp:
 

Letsgomoreplaces

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wheel spacers

I had some in the past that were about 1.3" thick, and could feel them a lot more, nowI run 1" spacers and it's great.

Thanks for everyones feedback. The Cruiser has been aligned, so I'm thinking it's a combo of lift height and wheel spacers. The wheel spacers were custom made and I measured them and they're bigger than 1-3/8"!!!! I'm having the guy build new ones and I'll lower the frontend as well (I'll take the current measurement and post it in a few minutes)

jg
 
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Mark - Knoxville, TN
I bet you have 3 issues.
1. Little to no down travel due to torsion bars. No fix, except lower the front.
2. You're rear axle has move forward and is no longer centered. Fis is to extend trailing and center links.
3. Bad alignment. Fix is to get an alignment after other 2 issues are resolved.
 

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