Too much battery? (1 Viewer)

[RandyDaytona]

Possible thread derail but I totally get what you're saying:
" They simply threw up the big splash screen that said “charges 80% in 50 minutes” without telling you that they were talking about charging that fast if using a wall plug. "

This is the great sleeper on these portable batteries. The vendors of the batteries just don't get it. It's as if they think off grid folks have on grid AC power to charge their batteries while off grid!!!

Goal Zero is the only vendor AFAIK that can charge at high wattage directly from DC.

On a Goal Zero ALL charging* is done via the solar input which is max 600W. The plug in the wall chargers emulate a solar panel and plug onto the solar dc input. I charge it from my vehicle via a Victron 12|24-15 at the rate of 360W. But, if you have the DC wattage to charge it from any source then so be it.

*Goal Zero has a separate car charger that is an add on accessory that doesn't use the solar input and can charge at the rate of 600W.

“This is the great sleeper on these portable batteries. The vendors of the batteries just don't get it. It's as if they think off grid folks have on grid AC power to charge their batteries while off grid!!!”

Yeah, when I asked their customer service person why I would need their battery to begin with if I was offroading or camping with a magic AC outlet in my truck, I think it blew her mind.

 

[ntsqd]

The Engineers knew, it's the Marketing people who are ignoring that uncomfortable aspect of re-charging their products.

 

[FrazzledHunter]

“This is the great sleeper on these portable batteries. The vendors of the batteries just don't get it. It's as if they think off grid folks have on grid AC power to charge their batteries while off grid!!!”

Yeah, when I asked their customer service person why I would need their battery to begin with if I was offroading or camping with a magic AC outlet in my truck, I think it blew her mind.

You wouldn’t believe the discussions I have had with RV vendors selling so-called "off grid" trailers why I needed the ability to charge it from the tow vehicle. "But you have 200W of solar panels" they say. None of them have lived in a tent with a 100Ah battery and solar panels.

 

[ntsqd]

OTOH our first pop-top camper only had PWM 100W after I installed it, and it kept up with the LED lighting and compressor fridge well enough that we really didn't need the alternator connection most of the time.

 

[RandyDaytona]

The Engineers knew, it's the Marketing people who are ignoring that uncomfortable aspect of re-charging their products.

I pointed out the following to their customer service person:

Unless someone springs for several hundred dollars’ worth of solar panels and has decent sun - or - they’re camped in their own backyard or at a campground where they can connect to shore power…the unit is unsuitable for camping as-is.

I essentially accused them of making false statements (or grossly-misleading, at a minimum).

They sent me an e-mail offering profuse apologies and telling me how important I am to them as a customer. It was so syrupy-sweet that I almost got a cavity while reading it. But - surprise - no solution.

I feel stupid for not being technically knowledgeable enough to know that EcoFlow was full of shi$.

I ordered some solar panels and am going to see how that setup works. And I had a ton of Cabela’s points, so they were essentially “free.”

Failing that, since the Delta 2 is also an inverter, I’ll find the most basic dual battery setup with the isolator and an optima and charge a battery with a battery. Live and learn.

I appreciate all of you guys taking time to offer your advice. I come back here time and again with a dumb question and ya’ll are very patient with me!

 

[e9999]

^ OK, well, at the risk of -sorry- not jumping on the bashing bandwagon, I was curious and had a look at their site and what it says about the Delta 2. And I would not characterize what I saw as grossly-misleading. They are, IMO, more careful and more complete and quantitative about their description than many other companies' descriptions I've seen. I did not see what I would call outright false statements. The 50 mins claim is clearly specified to be with AC input for instance. Somebody assuming that this would also be true for DC charging is just making an unreasonable assumption not based on technical understanding, IMO. Similarly, they discuss the solar charging also with some apparently reasonable numbers (if not your average panel size expectation).
That unit -not that I would buy one- is not "unsuitable for camping" as you say, IMO. It may be for some forms of camping but surely not all. Of course, it's not going to be the one and all if you are going to stay in place for a while without solar or AC or driving and needing significant power, but it would probably do the job for many as in having the unit for a weekend camping out for some reasonable power needs. And may be just fine with enough solar even for extended periods.
Now, do they try to make it look as good as possible on their site? Of course! And do possibly rely on / hope for people not fully understanding how this all works to go for a quick buy? Probably. But at the end of the day, it just is the customer responsibility to wade through the marketing and draw sound conclusions.

Anyway, it should be easy to make this work for you. This is fun and interesting stuff. Enjoy the power!

 

[LandLocked93]

FWIW, Ecoflow has released an add-on unit that can charge 'straight' from your alternator.
~30Amps@12vDC IIRC.
Yes it's the reinvention of a twin-battery BCDC.
But for Ecoflow enthusiasts.

 

[RandyDaytona]

^ OK, well, at the risk of -sorry- not jumping on the bashing bandwagon, I was curious and had a look at their site and what it says about the Delta 2. And I would not characterize what I saw as grossly-misleading. They are, IMO, more careful and more complete and quantitative about their description than many other companies' descriptions I've seen. I did not see what I would call outright false statements. The 50 mins claim is clearly specified to be with AC input for instance. Somebody assuming that this would also be true for DC charging is just making an unreasonable assumption not based on technical understanding, IMO. Similarly, they discuss the solar charging also with some apparently reasonable numbers (if not your average panel size expectation).
That unit -not that I would buy one- is not "unsuitable for camping" as you say, IMO. It may be for some forms of camping but surely not all. Of course, it's not going to be the one and all if you are going to stay in place for a while without solar or AC or driving and needing significant power, but it would probably do the job for many as in having the unit for a weekend camping out for some reasonable power needs. And may be just fine with enough solar even for extended periods.
Now, do they try to make it look as good as possible on their site? Of course! And do possibly rely on / hope for people not fully understanding how this all works to go for a quick buy? Probably. But at the end of the day, it just is the customer responsibility to wade through the marketing and draw sound conclusions.

Anyway, it should be easy to make this work for you. This is fun and interesting stuff. Enjoy the power!

We must be looking at different things, because when I click on the Delta 2 and see the claim of charging in 50 minutes, in no place does it state that this is AC charging, only.

More tellingly, when I mentioned this to EcoFlow, they never said “it’s right there” or pointed me to something I had apparently missed. They basically acknowledged that I was correct, that they used the fastest and most effective charging method as if it covered ALL charging methods.

My point is that by not explaining otherwise, that’s an omission, which is regularly construed as a false statement.

It also could be that you’re more knowledgeable about batteries, charging times and methods and it makes sense to you to look at their claim and think: yeah, that’s gotta be only for AC charging. I’m not that well-versed in this stuff, hence the creation of this thread. And I would imagine there are people even less so than me.

 

[e9999]

OK.

Over and out on this.

 

[LandLocked93]

As a third party - with no dog in the fight yet feeling the need to arbitrate - I'll assume that saying you're both right helps neither.
@e9999 screenshot does in fact illiterate "AC input".
But that goes to @RandyDaytona point that unless 'one knows', how would 'one know'?
Which brings us back to square one.
Carry on.

 

[RandyDaytona]

OK.

View attachment 3653518
Over and out on this.

That screen is new. It wasn’t there when I went to the site and made my purchase in April. Moreover, if they’re trying to make things clearer, that screenshot doesn’t do it. It still gives the impression that non-AC charging can be accomplished in less then an hour, which is completely false.

Thanks again to everyone who provided advice.

 

[Littlehouse]

Any pics of boat 2, the 21’ Nordic that came in 6th? Pretty cool to be running and beating some of the big boys.

 

[peesalot]

why do all these power banks have some wierd voltage on the input side ?, does anyone make a 12v unit that can just hook up to your alt & solar charger?

 

[FrazzledHunter]

why do all these power banks have some wierd voltage on the input side ?, does anyone make a 12v unit that can just hook up to your alt & solar charger?

I suspect it's because they often use the solar input to double as the charger not just from solar panels but from AC chargers as well.
And Solar panels typically run at 20+ up to 70 volts.
Goal Zero does this; it uses the Solar input to charge the battery not only via solar panels but also by their AC chargers as well, hence the higher voltage.

Goal Zero can keep you in the 12V space with 2 accessories:

1. Goal Zero also has a separate high wattage car charging accessory unit for their line of solar generators called the Yeti Link Vehicle Integration Kit which connects straight to your alternator. How this thing works internally I do not know but it does not use the solar input.
   1. "Yeti Link Vehicle Integration Kit Contains everything you need to charge the Yeti 1000X or larger from your vehicle’s alternator. "
   2. Yeti Link Vehicle Integration Kit - https://goalzero.com/products/yeti-link-vehicle-integration-kit
2. Goal Zero has a cigarette lighter charger to charge their batteries from the car's cigarette lighter albeit at a painfully low wattage but again it converts the output to higher voltage and goes to the solar input. But you don't have to think about that since your car's cigarette lighter is 12V.
   1. "Yeti 12V Car Charging Cable Used to safely and efficiently charge a Sherpa 100AC, Goal Zero Yeti X, Lithium, or Lead-Acid from a 12V source, featuring a protective 15A user-replaceable fuse."
   2. Yeti 12V Car Charging Cable - https://goalzero.com/collections/portable-solar-power-accessories/products/yeti-12v-car-charging-cable

The Yeti Link Vehicle Integration Kit wasn't available when I bought my Yeti 1500X so I use a Victron 12|24-15 DC-DC charger in power supply mode to take 12V from the alternator and supply the 24V it needs to charge. I can get approx. 380W to the Goal Zero Yeti 1500X straight from my alternator.