TMWT: The machine work thread

[GLTHFJ60]

@cruisermatt the power feed on x axis works wonderfully. The coolant pump, power feed and head motor are all three phase, adding up to 5.5a and 1.75hp total. The GE breaker on the side has a 1 amp heater in it, so the breaker trips whenever I turn a motor on after initial startup. However, I found that the heater in the breaker is replaceable, and can be replaced with up to a 17a heater. I ordered new heaters to upgrade the breaker to 6.4A, which means I'll be up and running by Friday!

I will use the vfd as a phase converter only, but it looks like doing so is favorable to using a static phase converter (can't afford a rotary phase converter). In addition, if I decide to rewire the machine entirely to use the functions of the vfd, I'll already have one.

I think it's a good plan! Very excited. Also ordered tooling to make the part I started this thread about

 

[cruisermatt]

Have you tried the using the clutch mesh and engaging back gear yet?

 

[GLTHFJ60]

Nope, on the list though.

 

[cruisermatt]

There’s a pretty big chance the pins in the handle need to be replaced, it’s very common when these machines get neglected over the years.

It’s kind of deceiving at first, and I couldn’t find any videos that really show the process slowly and in detail.
The first time you put it in low it will feel like the spindle is completely locked up, but it’s just the deep gear ratio.

 

[stevezero]

Kinda like the "grunt of a 2f" ???? Lol

There’s a pretty big chance the pins in the handle need to be replaced, it’s very common when these machines get neglected over the years.

It’s kind of deceiving at first, and I couldn’t find any videos that really show the process slowly and in detail.
The first time you put it in low it will feel like the spindle is completely locked up, but it’s just the deep gear ratio.

 

[CruizerHound]

Did you get a VFD? Can you turn the shaft by hand? Are you Sure those accessories are 3 phase?

EDIT: After some reflection, your problem sounds very similar to the one I had last year with my lathe. I too tired to use the VFD as a wall power supply. Every time I tried to turn it on t he VFD reset. Even though the VFD was sized larger than the motor, it was too much instant load for the VFD. VFD's like to ramp up power. Try to wire the VFD directly to the motor with 14/3 with ground wire. Also, I would leave the heaters alone. It was probably hooked up that way for a reason and increasing the fuse size could increase the possibility of damage to the motor is the mill is locked up.

Matt is referring to this pin (there are two). It was a problem with mine as well. Simple fix, you will tap new holes in #5 beside the striped ones.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

Just because I'm new to mills does not mean I'm new to three phase power and VFDs

Yes, I'm sure that the coolant pump and x power drive are three phase, just like the motor. I can read electric motor data plates quite well . All three motors work as expected on three phase power, and the head is exceptionally quiet! Very pleasantly surprised by how quiet it is.

My lathe has a vfd, and the fans I have in the garage are also driven by a vfd, all of which I researched and wired. The fans have external speed and start/stop control, and my lathe will soon too!

The heaters in the motor switch on the side of the mill are designed to be replaced, suited to the load. The inside of the motor switch cover has a list of suitable replacement heaters, listed by heater number and load. I've already tested with the vfd from my lathe wired as the "line" feeding all three motors, through the motor switch, and it works perfectly, except for overloading the heaters. If I over current the vfd during milling operations, then I'll figure something else out, but buying a separate drive for each of the three phase motors on this machine is silly. I've dealt with over current problems on my lathe and have it figured out, so I'm confident I've got this figured out too!

I'll put up some more pictures and explain the wiring in more detail after I replace the heaters with the (appropriately sized) NOS heaters I bought.



Appreciate the help guys. Once I get the wiring finalized, I'll test out the clutch operation and figure out if the screws need to be replaced. Tooling is starting to show up!

 

[cruisermatt]

Awesome. Another thing that made a big difference, and you probably realize this by common sense, was just cleaning 54 years (64 in your case!) of crap out of the ways and every crevice. My dad and I replaced the felts, and cleaned out a ton of gunk and lubbed it all up nice. Way operation is muuuch smoother and easier after.

I used my J1 today.
Machined a pair of tabs to match the style on my friend’s Baja rack today. He has one on his 80 that’s designed for a different truck, so one of the gutter mounts interferes with the rear doors. Made a new pair of tabs and welded on a row down so he can use all three clamps

 

[GLTHFJ60]

Doesn't look like the back gear meshes properly. Will need to replace those screws.

On another note, this in-column coolant pump is the worst. I've been slowly working on cleaning it without dying of the stench. Even with a respirator on, dry heaving is unavoidable.

Got the new heaters in and the breaker no longer trips!

 

[little_joe]

This thing looks a whole lot more complicated than my Dremel. And not nearly as portable...

 

[GLTHFJ60]

Ended up buying a static phase converter instead of another VFD. $170 vs ~$250 for the teco I would have purchased. Should work very well:

Static Phase Converter, Between 1 to 5 hp, Light

 

[cruisermatt]

Ended up buying a static phase converter instead of another VFD. $170 vs ~$250 for the teco I would have purchased. Should work very well:

Static Phase Converter, Between 1 to 5 hp, Light

Looks like a nice unit.
I think you're going to end up with a VFD eventually though

It's super nice leaving the belt on the 2nd lowest pulley and just going back and forth between hi/low range and fine tuning with the VFD, which is good for 99% of operations.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

Maybe, maybe. I figure I've got a lot of experience to build up before I think I'll see the benefits of the VFD on the mill.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

Alright, let's talk wiring.

This mill has three, three phase motors; in-column coolant pump, x-axis power feed, and of course the head. Running each of these off of a separate VFD doesn't make sense, too expensive and wasteful. The side of the mill has a GE motor start switch with replaceable "heaters". This is a breaker switch, not a magnetic starter switch, that can handle up to 18A by use of replaceable "heaters". Think of this as a breaker in your house electrical panel. Instead of replacing the whole breaker to upgrade amperage for a circuit, you can replace just the current trip mechanism, which even in your household breaker is a heat element.

This is what it looked like when I pulled it open the first time:

You can see lots of failed insulation, and that the head motor was wired directly to the 3 phase line.

Inside cover:

Heater comparison. Heaters with the thick wire are the 6.4A ones:

Rewired all three motors to the load side of the switch, with the 6.4a heaters:

@CruizerHound , you were right, with this setup, the 7.5a output VFD didn't like being line power. Original thinking was to buy a larger VFD that wouldn't mind as much, but in doing research, I discovered static phase converters. Ended up buying an American Rotary digital static phase converter from Wolf Automation (link in post #51). Very slick device.

Cover off:

Internal wiring:

It's a 1-5hp model. Low on the toggle is 1-3hp range, high on the toggle is 3-5hp range. I'll operate this in "low" range.

She just sits on the wall and looks pretty

So, with that phase of this project done, I turned my attention to cleaning and got the column sump cleaned out. Pumped out 15 gallons of the nastiest, most disgusting, rotting-carcass smelling sludge oil mix I've ever experienced. Had to breathe through my mouth, even with the respirator on, to not vomit. In lighter news, that chapter of my life is over (thank god) and I even started cleaning the outside of the machine:

Long story short, static phase converters are cheap, and are very simple to hook up and use. VFDs are a good alternative when your load would better be suited to a rotary phase converter, as VFDs are dramatically cheaper than rotary phase converters. If you want to be able to control your motor speed, a VFD is the way to go.

 

[S4Cruiser]

So yeah...some of that made sense... Would then a static phase converter be the appropriate direction for say the lathe? If not then why?

 

[GLTHFJ60]

So yeah...some of that made sense... Would then a static phase converter be the appropriate direction for say the lathe? If not then why?

This should help explain. The "heater" is the bimetallic strip:

How Circuit Breakers Work


Yes, a static phase converter (sized appropriately) would work perfectly fine on a lathe, as would a rotary phase converter.

 

[S4Cruiser]

Yes, a static phase converter (sized appropriately) would work perfectly fine on a lathe, as would a rotary phase converter.

Cheaper too or just depends?

 

[GLTHFJ60]

The phase converter I found is cheaper than the VFD I would have purchased. I assume that static phase converters are usually cheaper than much more complicated VFDs.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

For those wondering what's all the fuss with three phase power, check this video out.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

Doesn't look like the back gear meshes properly. Will need to replace those screws.

Turns out I'm dumb. Didn't know I needed to change the IN/OUT lever on the right side of the head with the top mesh knob. Watched a tubalcain YouTube video teaching me how the J-head works,